First time to Europe
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:33 PM
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First time to Europe
Help!
Myself, my husband and two sisters are going to Europe in a couple of weeks. We're flying into/out of Paris. We would like to spend a few days in Paris, a few days in London, and a few days in Barcelona. Any tips on where to stay, how to get to these three locations (plane, trains, or automobiles, etc.) would be greatly appreciated.
Myself, my husband and two sisters are going to Europe in a couple of weeks. We're flying into/out of Paris. We would like to spend a few days in Paris, a few days in London, and a few days in Barcelona. Any tips on where to stay, how to get to these three locations (plane, trains, or automobiles, etc.) would be greatly appreciated.
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:48 PM
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At the risk of being harsh, are you for real? You're leaving in a couple of weeks and are only now planning the basics of transportation and where to stay? My tip? Plan sooner. If this is a last minute know what you want to spend, get a guidebook and start calling. All three cities are places that run pretty full this time of year.
Jun 6th, 2003, 03:59 PM
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If you are leaving in a couple of weeks, you need to spend the better part of 2-4 days planning and attempting to make reservations (for hotels) immediately. You will get direct suggestions if you indicate what budget you're trying to meet.
Start with one or more of these good web resources:
Paris:
http://www.webscapades.com/france/paris/paris.htm
http://www.timeout.com/paris/accom/
http://www.fodors.com/miniguides/mgr...tion=paris@117
London:
http://www.s-h-systems.co.uk/
http://www.fodors.com/miniguides/mgr...tion=london@91
http://www.timeout.com/london/accom/
Barcelona:
http://www.easybarcelona.com/
http://www.bcn-guide.com/htm/ang/default2.htm
http://www.timeout.com/barcelona/accom/
http://www.fodors.com/miniguides/mgr...n=barcelona@23
It's unfortunate that your plan requires you to come back to Paris to go home. I would recommend the Eurostar through the Channel tunnel to London (even though flying is actually cheaper), and then flying from London (Stansted will probably be your best bargain) to Barcelona.
Depending on how long your total trip is, you could take the train back to Perpignan, rent a car and take 2.5-5 days to drive back to Paris (fairly leisurely) - - or simply take an overnght train back to Paris.
The more info you can provide - - every 6-12 hours here - - on what you have found out, what you think you will like and what you are prepared to spend, the better the help you will get here.
Best wishes,
Rex Bickers
Westerville, Ohio
and soon to be from...
Floyds Knobs, Indiana
(moving "back home" in less than two weeks!)
Start with one or more of these good web resources:
Paris:
http://www.webscapades.com/france/paris/paris.htm
http://www.timeout.com/paris/accom/
http://www.fodors.com/miniguides/mgr...tion=paris@117
London:
http://www.s-h-systems.co.uk/
http://www.fodors.com/miniguides/mgr...tion=london@91
http://www.timeout.com/london/accom/
Barcelona:
http://www.easybarcelona.com/
http://www.bcn-guide.com/htm/ang/default2.htm
http://www.timeout.com/barcelona/accom/
http://www.fodors.com/miniguides/mgr...n=barcelona@23
It's unfortunate that your plan requires you to come back to Paris to go home. I would recommend the Eurostar through the Channel tunnel to London (even though flying is actually cheaper), and then flying from London (Stansted will probably be your best bargain) to Barcelona.
Depending on how long your total trip is, you could take the train back to Perpignan, rent a car and take 2.5-5 days to drive back to Paris (fairly leisurely) - - or simply take an overnght train back to Paris.
The more info you can provide - - every 6-12 hours here - - on what you have found out, what you think you will like and what you are prepared to spend, the better the help you will get here.
Best wishes,
Rex Bickers
Westerville, Ohio
and soon to be from...
Floyds Knobs, Indiana
(moving "back home" in less than two weeks!)
Jun 6th, 2003, 06:05 PM
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At the risk of soundung like goody-twoshoes (and even though I agree with you in spirit) - - do you think that your posts really add anything to the forum, McBetsy and jmathers?
The challenge is, to get this person back on track - - DESPITE the major time obstacle she has brought upon herself.
The challenge is, to get this person back on track - - DESPITE the major time obstacle she has brought upon herself.
Jun 6th, 2003, 06:51 PM
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I'm not trying to single out this person in particular. But IMO it's rude to come the travel board with an incredibly vague question and expect everyone else to share what they've spent a good amount of time researching themselves. Most of these questions can be answered by a simple subject search above but many readers are too lazy to do that. Sorry for the soapbox.
Jun 6th, 2003, 07:49 PM
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Rex-Thanks for your great help. You are a gentleman.
I understand the point from McB and JM that Paris takes a bit more planning than the normal trip. I've never been outside the country.
I thought by posting a message I was hoping to get some good suggestions from people who have been there and done that.
MissPiggy
<oink!>
I understand the point from McB and JM that Paris takes a bit more planning than the normal trip. I've never been outside the country.
I thought by posting a message I was hoping to get some good suggestions from people who have been there and done that.
MissPiggy
<oink!>
Jun 6th, 2003, 09:28 PM
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While I appreciate the "thank you", you mid\ssed the most important part of my message. I'll repeat it:
****
The more info you can provide - - every 6-12 hours here - - on what you have found out, what you think you will like and what you are prepared to spend, the better the help you will get here.
****
You came back here and didn't tell one thing more that would help someone point you in the right direction. There are dozens, hundreds of folks here who have been to these wonderful cities, including myself - - but without some further info from you, you are very unlikely to get specific recommendations on lodging.
You still will be able to find something, even if you show up with no plan, but you will have missed the point of this forum - - to help you reduce the frustration, wasted time and bad bargains that can befall someone who hasn't done some research.
****
The more info you can provide - - every 6-12 hours here - - on what you have found out, what you think you will like and what you are prepared to spend, the better the help you will get here.
****
You came back here and didn't tell one thing more that would help someone point you in the right direction. There are dozens, hundreds of folks here who have been to these wonderful cities, including myself - - but without some further info from you, you are very unlikely to get specific recommendations on lodging.
You still will be able to find something, even if you show up with no plan, but you will have missed the point of this forum - - to help you reduce the frustration, wasted time and bad bargains that can befall someone who hasn't done some research.
Jun 7th, 2003, 01:21 AM
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Okay, Rex,
Here's a couple of quick-hitters courtesy of my husband:
1. Is the Eurail pass worth it?
-I understand the virtue of flexibility by being able to travel whenever/ wherever but are we better off just buying station-to-station tickets (London to Paris, Paris to Barcelona via TGV, then vice-versa)?
2. ?Preferred? museum passes
-I overheard someone talk about a museum pass that allowed them to bypass the main ticket lines to enter the museums and galleries directly. How do we purchase this pass?
3. Is Jules Verne worth it?
I just read it take months to reserve a table at Jules Verne for dinner. How about lunch? If so, is the cost worth the view/food?
We are looking for hotels now in the Louvre district of Paris and S. Kensington in London. Budget is $100-150 USD/night. Have no idea about Barcelona yet.
Here's a couple of quick-hitters courtesy of my husband:
1. Is the Eurail pass worth it?
-I understand the virtue of flexibility by being able to travel whenever/ wherever but are we better off just buying station-to-station tickets (London to Paris, Paris to Barcelona via TGV, then vice-versa)?
2. ?Preferred? museum passes
-I overheard someone talk about a museum pass that allowed them to bypass the main ticket lines to enter the museums and galleries directly. How do we purchase this pass?
3. Is Jules Verne worth it?
I just read it take months to reserve a table at Jules Verne for dinner. How about lunch? If so, is the cost worth the view/food?
We are looking for hotels now in the Louvre district of Paris and S. Kensington in London. Budget is $100-150 USD/night. Have no idea about Barcelona yet.
Jun 7th, 2003, 01:44 AM
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Question? How are using the word, "worth"? How much is your time worth? Example, I can travel by bus at zero cost. A taxi charges $5 for similar trip but takes 20 minutes instead of 30 minutes, plus I have a very comfortable ride. Is saving 10 minutes plus enjoying the comfortable ride worth $5? Or should I take the bus and use the $5 saved to buy a better lunch? Please remember that every reply is based on that person's values and tastes and personal wealth/income.
Jun 7th, 2003, 04:42 AM
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Dear Miss Piggy,
May I suggest that there is little sense in a few days in Paris, a few days in London, and a few days in Barcelona?
If you only have a week or so, you would be best off staying in Paris and leaving the other cities for future trips.
To find out if the railpass is worth it, go to www.railsaver.com. They will price your itinerary for you.
Is there a particular reason you are planning on the Louvre area for a Paris hotel? Most recommendations on this forum are for the 4th - 7th districts.
May I suggest that there is little sense in a few days in Paris, a few days in London, and a few days in Barcelona?
If you only have a week or so, you would be best off staying in Paris and leaving the other cities for future trips.
To find out if the railpass is worth it, go to www.railsaver.com. They will price your itinerary for you.
Is there a particular reason you are planning on the Louvre area for a Paris hotel? Most recommendations on this forum are for the 4th - 7th districts.
Jun 7th, 2003, 05:21 AM
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Assuming you have airline tickets, and you will be staying in Europe less than two weeks, my recommendation would be to book a hotel in Paris forthwith for the duration.
It will be an enormous challenge, if you've never been out of the country before, to organize and plan visiting Paris between now and departure.
It will be an enormous challenge, if you've never been out of the country before, to organize and plan visiting Paris between now and departure.
Jun 7th, 2003, 05:33 AM
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We actually still do not know how long is the trip - - it is implied that it is 6-12 days total, but it is not stated for certain. This piece of information is critical, along with some hint at budget, either total (excluding air travel to and from Europe, which is evidently already purchased) - - or per day.
Eurailpass? Inconceivable that this would be a wise purchase. I think you will have one, two or three train journeys at most.
Jules Verne is "worth it" if you enjoy a lunch that will cost the four of you $250-500 (unless you go crazy with expensive wines). Strictly guessing, there are NO _dinner time_ reservations to be had before September, if you called them today.
I have never personally used a museum pass, but others do speak highly of them. But in a three day visit to Paris, you can/will easily fill 1.5 to 2.5 of those days with things that do not need or even use a museum pass. Others will argue, but I think you could do fine with three days in Paris if the Musee d'Orsay was the ONLY museum you visited.
Eurailpass? Inconceivable that this would be a wise purchase. I think you will have one, two or three train journeys at most.
Jules Verne is "worth it" if you enjoy a lunch that will cost the four of you $250-500 (unless you go crazy with expensive wines). Strictly guessing, there are NO _dinner time_ reservations to be had before September, if you called them today.
I have never personally used a museum pass, but others do speak highly of them. But in a three day visit to Paris, you can/will easily fill 1.5 to 2.5 of those days with things that do not need or even use a museum pass. Others will argue, but I think you could do fine with three days in Paris if the Musee d'Orsay was the ONLY museum you visited.
Jun 7th, 2003, 05:58 AM
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Dear MissPiggy: Have read your posts (and the replies) with great amusement. Most of us on this board are obsessive planners, so your question seems as though it came from an alternative universe.
Have no idea of your length of stay or budget, so as some of the other posters have indicated, it's hard to give good basic advice. Will give my two cents of collectivve Paris advice:
1) Most painless way to get from airport to hotel in Paris is taxi. I've tried everything else (and depending on where I'm staying in Paris and with whom I'm travelling, I use different methods), but for the new vistor (especially for a non-planner!)it's the most flexible and most non-challenging transport choice.
2) Get around by metro. You don't need a metro card (you can research that if you like--most of us who go to Paris often don't bother with it unless we're staying awhile). Ask at the guichet (ticket window) for "un carnet s'il vous plait." This will give you ten rides. When you run out, buy more. Again, since you're a non-planner, flexibility would be a good idea. If you intend to get a metro card, then please check out all the alternatives to the Paris Visite which we regard as the "transport card for suckers" choice.
3) Rex isn't high on the museum pass. I am, and so are a lot of site vets. We've visited Paris eleven times. Only on two trips have we not bought the pass. I believe it offers flexibility. If you just visit the Louvre and the Musee d'Orsay, you've gotten to the head of the line, making the most of your time. I also have always loved the "time to get out of Dodge" aspect of it. Sometimes you need a break. Leave the museum, have lunch, shop. Come back!
Other advice: If you are in Europe ten days, then do Paris/London using the chunnel. If you are there two weeks, then Barcelona might make sense.
Have no idea of your length of stay or budget, so as some of the other posters have indicated, it's hard to give good basic advice. Will give my two cents of collectivve Paris advice:
1) Most painless way to get from airport to hotel in Paris is taxi. I've tried everything else (and depending on where I'm staying in Paris and with whom I'm travelling, I use different methods), but for the new vistor (especially for a non-planner!)it's the most flexible and most non-challenging transport choice.
2) Get around by metro. You don't need a metro card (you can research that if you like--most of us who go to Paris often don't bother with it unless we're staying awhile). Ask at the guichet (ticket window) for "un carnet s'il vous plait." This will give you ten rides. When you run out, buy more. Again, since you're a non-planner, flexibility would be a good idea. If you intend to get a metro card, then please check out all the alternatives to the Paris Visite which we regard as the "transport card for suckers" choice.
3) Rex isn't high on the museum pass. I am, and so are a lot of site vets. We've visited Paris eleven times. Only on two trips have we not bought the pass. I believe it offers flexibility. If you just visit the Louvre and the Musee d'Orsay, you've gotten to the head of the line, making the most of your time. I also have always loved the "time to get out of Dodge" aspect of it. Sometimes you need a break. Leave the museum, have lunch, shop. Come back!
Other advice: If you are in Europe ten days, then do Paris/London using the chunnel. If you are there two weeks, then Barcelona might make sense.
Jun 7th, 2003, 06:29 AM
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Hi
If you go elsewhere here at fodors.com and look at the Destinations of Paris, London, and Barcelona, you will find loads of basic sightseeing and practical information, suggestions for itineraries while you are there, and restaurant and hotel rants and raves comments from past clients.
Next: I have long files on Paris and London; if you'd like to see them, email me.
Next: Book some hotels now, this weekend, Monday at the latest. If you have a budget in mind, browse for London hotels at www.londontown.com, narrow it down to a few, then ask about them here, or do searches here.
Keep in mind that in Europe, as opposed to the U.S. if that's where you are from, economical hotels tend to be small properties, with small rooms.
Don't assume elevators or air conditioning or private bathroom unless the hotel website or other information mentions it specifically. In some cases you have to specify bathtub vs shower; you don't always get both. Often the tub will have a hand held shower, but not always a shower curtain. Specify the kind of beds you want in each room and how many people in the room. Don't use American terms like "double". Say, for example, "we want one room for two people, with one large bed, and another room for two people with two beds."
Queen-sized or king-sized beds are rare except in top luxury or business-style hotels.
You want central locations. In London, look in the South Kensington, Kensington, Bloomsbury, Covent Garden areas first, imo. In Paris, look in the arrondissements (districts) that are numbered 4,5,6,7,or 1 or 14.. Those are the most central and convenient. There are many budget hotels in those areas, but some book up months in advance.
From London to Paris, or back again, you can take the Eurostar train that travels under the English channel. There are various rates depending on how and where and when you book. Look at the Eurostar website (don't confuse it with some trains in Italy that are called Eurostar Italia.)
From Barcelona to/from Paris, you could do an overnight train, or look into cheap airfares which save time, and may not be more expensive than the trains.
Info on train resources are in my files.
I am a fan of the Paris museum pass not to save money, but save waiting on line at the Louvre or Orsay museums. Or, you can go very early or very late in the day, or even on some evenings, and crowds are much thinner and lines not so much an issue.
Four of you arriving with luggage won't fit into most taxis.
Consider ordering a car service to meet you.
Carey limousine service: Website for their Paris office is www.sportinglimousine.com. Bilingual drivers. Also Aeroports Limousine Service: call for reservations 1 40 71 84 62
Fax: 01 40 71 09 65
Elite Limousines www.elitelimousines.com
another one: http://aamericanlimousines.com/
Limousine services: worldwide directory www.limousinesonline.com
Or, choose a hotel with relatively easy connections to public transport inside the city, but keep your luggage manageable. Wheels won't help you on stairs in train or Tube stations. For example, in London, if you stay somewhere along the Piccadilly Tube line, such as near the Knightsbridge or South Ken. stop, you can have a straight ride in from Heathrow, get off, and walk a couple of blocks to the hotel. Or, take the "Heathrow Express" to Paddington Station and either stay near Paddington (I don't care for the area, but many do) or take a couple of taxis to your hotel.
I always budget an extra 25-50 $US on my trip for having my laundry and drycleaning done (arranged by the hotel) halfway through. That gives me clean clothes, so I can pack fewer changes. I'd rather skimp on dinner one night if I have to, but that's me.
Major cities also have self-serve laundromats.
If you go elsewhere here at fodors.com and look at the Destinations of Paris, London, and Barcelona, you will find loads of basic sightseeing and practical information, suggestions for itineraries while you are there, and restaurant and hotel rants and raves comments from past clients.
Next: I have long files on Paris and London; if you'd like to see them, email me.
Next: Book some hotels now, this weekend, Monday at the latest. If you have a budget in mind, browse for London hotels at www.londontown.com, narrow it down to a few, then ask about them here, or do searches here.
Keep in mind that in Europe, as opposed to the U.S. if that's where you are from, economical hotels tend to be small properties, with small rooms.
Don't assume elevators or air conditioning or private bathroom unless the hotel website or other information mentions it specifically. In some cases you have to specify bathtub vs shower; you don't always get both. Often the tub will have a hand held shower, but not always a shower curtain. Specify the kind of beds you want in each room and how many people in the room. Don't use American terms like "double". Say, for example, "we want one room for two people, with one large bed, and another room for two people with two beds."
Queen-sized or king-sized beds are rare except in top luxury or business-style hotels.
You want central locations. In London, look in the South Kensington, Kensington, Bloomsbury, Covent Garden areas first, imo. In Paris, look in the arrondissements (districts) that are numbered 4,5,6,7,or 1 or 14.. Those are the most central and convenient. There are many budget hotels in those areas, but some book up months in advance.
From London to Paris, or back again, you can take the Eurostar train that travels under the English channel. There are various rates depending on how and where and when you book. Look at the Eurostar website (don't confuse it with some trains in Italy that are called Eurostar Italia.)
From Barcelona to/from Paris, you could do an overnight train, or look into cheap airfares which save time, and may not be more expensive than the trains.
Info on train resources are in my files.
I am a fan of the Paris museum pass not to save money, but save waiting on line at the Louvre or Orsay museums. Or, you can go very early or very late in the day, or even on some evenings, and crowds are much thinner and lines not so much an issue.
Four of you arriving with luggage won't fit into most taxis.
Consider ordering a car service to meet you.
Carey limousine service: Website for their Paris office is www.sportinglimousine.com. Bilingual drivers. Also Aeroports Limousine Service: call for reservations 1 40 71 84 62
Fax: 01 40 71 09 65
Elite Limousines www.elitelimousines.com
another one: http://aamericanlimousines.com/
Limousine services: worldwide directory www.limousinesonline.com
Or, choose a hotel with relatively easy connections to public transport inside the city, but keep your luggage manageable. Wheels won't help you on stairs in train or Tube stations. For example, in London, if you stay somewhere along the Piccadilly Tube line, such as near the Knightsbridge or South Ken. stop, you can have a straight ride in from Heathrow, get off, and walk a couple of blocks to the hotel. Or, take the "Heathrow Express" to Paddington Station and either stay near Paddington (I don't care for the area, but many do) or take a couple of taxis to your hotel.
I always budget an extra 25-50 $US on my trip for having my laundry and drycleaning done (arranged by the hotel) halfway through. That gives me clean clothes, so I can pack fewer changes. I'd rather skimp on dinner one night if I have to, but that's me.
Major cities also have self-serve laundromats.
Jun 7th, 2003, 06:33 AM
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I meant to suggest a car/van service for London. I haven't used this, but it has been often praised here:
www.londontransfers.com
also www.chauffeur.co.uk
www.blackcablondon.com
www.londontransfers.com
also www.chauffeur.co.uk
www.blackcablondon.com
Jun 7th, 2003, 07:02 AM
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I will agree with the suggestion to cut down your itinerary if you have two weeks or less... There is plenty to do in Paris or London, and Barcelona is a bit of a hike out of your way. If you have limited days, do you want to spend most of one just sitting on the train?
That being said, try www.lastminute.com for London and Paris hotels, they have some good deals. Watch for hotels without en suite bathrooms (you have to share one down the hall, usually, if its not en suite). Rooms will be smaller than you're used to, probably won't have AC. Cots and pullout-couches are common addons to make a room available for 4, it might be wiser to get 2 rooms, if budget allows.
I don't think the train pass will be worth it, but look into the 'hop on-hop off' tours in Paris and London, they will give you a decent overview of the city before you settle down to serious site-seeing.
And do please excuse earlier comments... like amelia mentioned, most of us are obsessive planners to the point of psychosis, so to see someone with such a situation is QUITE unusual, and I suppose many will regard you with scorn. However, it should be a challenge to us
That being said, try www.lastminute.com for London and Paris hotels, they have some good deals. Watch for hotels without en suite bathrooms (you have to share one down the hall, usually, if its not en suite). Rooms will be smaller than you're used to, probably won't have AC. Cots and pullout-couches are common addons to make a room available for 4, it might be wiser to get 2 rooms, if budget allows.
I don't think the train pass will be worth it, but look into the 'hop on-hop off' tours in Paris and London, they will give you a decent overview of the city before you settle down to serious site-seeing.
And do please excuse earlier comments... like amelia mentioned, most of us are obsessive planners to the point of psychosis, so to see someone with such a situation is QUITE unusual, and I suppose many will regard you with scorn. However, it should be a challenge to us
Jun 11th, 2003, 10:34 PM
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Wow!
Thanks all for the great responses. Most of them were very useful tidbits which my husband has stored in his nerdy Pilot.
Well, thanks to a mighty heave on our part, we have most of the trip planned. We used several key pieces of advice from the postings and have put together the following:
Days 1-4: Fly into Paris, stay in 9th district (3 star hotel with good location) for 3.5 days. Cost~$100/nite;
Days 5-8: Overnight train to Barcelona, stay at 4 star hotel near city center for 3.5 days. Cost ~$179/nite.
BTW, we included Barcelona (in spite of suggestions to reduce the # of cities) only because we have friends departing Barcelona on a 7-day cruise and we will meet them for a day or two.
Days 9-12: Fly Ryanair to London for the remaining 4 days, stay in S.Ken 4* hotel for $125. Then fly home from London!
We went ahead and purchased the museum pass. Didn't get the Rail pass. We are tempted by the suggestion to rent limo service...
The latter decision remains the last piece of the trip. What are the options for getting to our Hotels from the airports/stations:
1. From CDG to 9th district --->
Most likely Limo service.
2. From Barcelona Sants station to city center ---> Taxi for 4?
3. From London, Stansted airport to SKen ---> Rail?
Lastly, this was my first time on a forum as well, so I was a little bashful in replying after the first couple of negative replies but realized those folks were the exception. Many thanks to the many who were so helpful with their cogent and spirited replies. I will return the favor in the future by helping the next lost soul who posts a reply.
-Oink!
Thanks all for the great responses. Most of them were very useful tidbits which my husband has stored in his nerdy Pilot.
Well, thanks to a mighty heave on our part, we have most of the trip planned. We used several key pieces of advice from the postings and have put together the following:
Days 1-4: Fly into Paris, stay in 9th district (3 star hotel with good location) for 3.5 days. Cost~$100/nite;
Days 5-8: Overnight train to Barcelona, stay at 4 star hotel near city center for 3.5 days. Cost ~$179/nite.
BTW, we included Barcelona (in spite of suggestions to reduce the # of cities) only because we have friends departing Barcelona on a 7-day cruise and we will meet them for a day or two.
Days 9-12: Fly Ryanair to London for the remaining 4 days, stay in S.Ken 4* hotel for $125. Then fly home from London!
We went ahead and purchased the museum pass. Didn't get the Rail pass. We are tempted by the suggestion to rent limo service...
The latter decision remains the last piece of the trip. What are the options for getting to our Hotels from the airports/stations:
1. From CDG to 9th district --->
Most likely Limo service.
2. From Barcelona Sants station to city center ---> Taxi for 4?
3. From London, Stansted airport to SKen ---> Rail?
Lastly, this was my first time on a forum as well, so I was a little bashful in replying after the first couple of negative replies but realized those folks were the exception. Many thanks to the many who were so helpful with their cogent and spirited replies. I will return the favor in the future by helping the next lost soul who posts a reply.
-Oink!
