Toni

We have two weeks for vacation and are in the baby stages of planning our first trip to Italy. We are thinking of flying to Milan, renting a car and going to Cinque Terre, Tuscany, Florence, Venice and back to Milan. Is this do-able in two weeks? Do you have any favorite experiences with hotels in these places? <BR>Some additional questions are: What time of the year is the best? (We were thinking of April) Do the leaves change in Italy like they do in New England? Do people speak any English off the beaten path? We drive in L.A. which can be pretty nuts, but is it really scary to drive in Italy? I've heard the Italians are excellent (and very, very fast) drivers. Thank you in advance for any help you can provide. I am so looking forward to planning this trip. I heard once, long ago that vacations are 85% anticipation and 15% recollection...The planning stage is so much fun!

Rex

Toni,<BR><BR>Yikes! so much too much to do in northern Italy in two weeks - - you didn't even mention the Lakes and/or Dolomites - - or Verona, or the Piemonte, or... well you get the idea.<BR><BR>You can't do justice to all of what you have mentioned, let alone the other goodies I mentioned above. But you can have a great time trying!<BR><BR>I strongly recommend <BR><BR>http://www.italyhotel.com <BR><BR>for hotel "window shopping" - - and buying as well. Two other good sources of information are:<BR><BR>http://www.karenbrown.com<BR>http://www.charemerelax.com<BR>http://www.timeout.com<BR><BR>and of course, our hosts, themselves,<BR><BR>http://www.fodors.com (yes, there is more to this website than just "Travel Talk"!)<BR><BR>I love driving in Italy. I don't think that the fall color changes are quite as pretty in Italy as in Germany or New England.<BR><BR>I also love improving my ability to communicate with people who don't speak ANY English. They are somewhat rarer in Venice than other parts of northern Italy. To really have fun, study up!<BR><BR>Best wishes,<BR><BR>Rex<BR>

russ i

Toni,<BR><BR>Rex gives good advice, there is so much to see in this area. Here is my proposed itinerary based only on the locations that you have mentioned:<BR><BR>Milan - 1 night. I would take a bus or taxi there and rent the car the next day. This will give you time to adjust to the time difference as well as a chance to see the Duomo, Galleria, La Scala and Last Supper, if you are interested.<BR><BR>Cinque Terre - 3 nights - You could also stop in Santa Margherita Ligure or Portofino on the way there, or during your stay in the CT. If you feel like it, take the boat to Portovenere from Monterosso or Vernazza if they are still running.<BR><BR>(Optional - quick stop in Pisa)<BR><BR>Siena and southern Tuscany - 3 nights. I like to stay at a B and B or agriturismo (farm house)in the countyside in this area. You can see San Gimignano, Montalcino, Monte Pulciano, etc. during this time if you like to drive. I love driving in this region.<BR><BR>Florence - 3 nights<BR><BR>Venice - 3 nights<BR><BR>Taking Rex's lead...Bellagio (Lake Como)- 2 nights. I have stayed here before flying home from Milano Malpensa. It's about an hour from the airport, so in my book, just as easy for that last night before departure.<BR><BR>Of course, add or subtract nights in the locations that interest you more or less, but you get the picture. This is almost exactly the itinerary that I took my first time to Italy 10 years ago. I found it to work great. Have fun!

Mariarosa

Hi Toni! I really like the itinerary suggested by Russ for a first-time visit to Northwest Italy. I think it gives a good flavor for that area.<BR><BR>We recently completed a two-week trip to Northeast Italy, flying in and out of Venice, that covered Venice, Ferrara, Verona, Ravena, Vicenza and the Dolomites. We enjoyed this area immensely. The Dolomites were magnificent and the food was delicious. (I posted a brief report here that can be viewed at <BR>http://www.fodors.com/forums/threads...mp;tid=1283703 )<BR>However, for a first-time visit to Italy, I definitely recommend seeing Florence and Siena.<BR><BR>Enjoy your trip!

exactly

Rex made a mistake! That would be http://www.charmerelax.com. Rex, how could you?

Tina

Toni:<BR><BR>If you haven't bought your plane tickets yet (&amp; it sounds like this is the case) then do consider flying INTO Milan and then OUT from Venice (or vice versa, if you prefer) --- that way you can maximize your time there &amp; don't have to back track.<BR><BR>As for the timing of your visit, I've been to Italy in late April and also in October. If you do opt for April timeframe, make sure you're clear of the Easter holidays as things get quite busy during holy week. Weatherwise, I think it's a tad better in early May. OR I've very much enjoyed being there in October (visited Italy twice during this time of year) --- no, you don't get the same level of "technicolor" during the autumn (I'm a former New Englander), but there is some color change. First two weeks in October is best as it starts to get into the rainy season during the latter portion.<BR><BR>If you can drive in LA OR a better comparison is if you've ever driven in Boston (now THERE's some crazy drivin'), you'll be fine on the road in Italy.

Rex

Oh no, exactly - - back in the hairshirt for another sleepless night!!<BR><BR>Thank you for catching "my bad"! - - as my kids say!<BR><BR>Best...<BR><BR>R<BR>

Toni

Thanks for all your replies...<BR>I'm starting to think that going to Italy and not visiting Rome is pretty pathetic but I know I can't see it all in one trip and don't want to rush...<BR><BR>My general thoughts are this after reading all day both guide books and this fabulous site:<BR> Fly to Milan and depending on what time we arrive either spend 1 night there OR drive directly to the Lake Como area for two nights, then head south to Portofino for 2 nights or so, drive through Pisa to Siena and stay there for 3-4 nights, then to Florence drop off the car &amp; stay there for 2 nights then take a train to Venice for 2 nights and then a train to Milan for the last night and home. <BR>Please let me know how this sounds and also...I really need your help with hotels in these areas. <BR>Moderately priced hotels would be preferred, but if you have a favorite for a splurge please let me know. I keep hearing about "The Hotel Splendido" in Portofino...it sounds pretty awesome. Awesomely priced too...around 700+ a night!! thank you, thank you, thank you!!!

StCirq

Tony:<BR><BR>I went to Italy half a dozen times before I got to Rome - and then was disappointed. Don't worry about it. You'll go back to Rome another time if it's important to you. And trying to squeeze Rome in would shortshrift both Rome and the rest of the itinerary.<BR><BR>

Toni

THANK YOU...I feel better. It will give me a reason to go back!

joan

Hi Toni!<BR>Italy is the most intresting place on the planet. There is way much to do for you to be able to visit all that has to be seen. I am italian by father and scottish by mother and lived there for many years so I would advise you to visit the following:<BR>arrive in milan and visit it first (there is not much to see 1 day will be enough) and then move on to venice (stay here for 2 days that means staying 2 nights also) then move on to Florence (here visit the city itself and maybe stay in an agriturismo in the chianti hills or a farmhouse doing wine tasting and making and olive oil tasting) the chianti country side is the most beautiful part of Italy! From Florence (or chianti) you can go on day trips to siena, san gimignano and many more.<BR><BR>Arriving in Milan is best and renting a car: this is the best solution. April/May is the best time to some to see the country. It is not too hot, but the temp. is warm, inbetween spring and summer. 2 Weeks are plenty for visiting these places leave rome out and do that on its OWN another time. <BR><BR>I know an excellent online reservation facility for hotels, B&amp;B's etc...<BR><BR>www.charmingflorence.com<BR>www.char mingvenice.com<BR>www.tuscany.net<BR><BR>They have all types of accomodation from 2,3,4,5 star hotels to agriturismi to farmhouses. They have lots of photos for you to see what the property is like and as you write the email direct to the hotel, you get to knoe them quite well and strike up a friendship! It is really quite personal.<BR>Organise a nice trip and enjoy it, there is nothing to worry about, you will love it and go back again and again!!<BR>All the best<BR>Joan

Tina

Toni:<BR><BR>By jove, I think you've got it! Your plan (posted 4/1) is sound.<BR><BR>And although I'm an avid fan of Rome, your itinerary to focus on northern Italy is a good choice. After this visit, then you can plan a Rome &amp; other cities south journey.

Jeanette

Having just returned from this area, I could add a few tidbits of info that might help. Portofino is interesting but super tiny and can be seen literally at a glance. If I was going to lodge in this type of town I would pick Portovenere. It is a living town and the walkways etc. up to the fort/castle are terrific. There are more choices for dining and the people were terrific to us there. <BR><BR>In picking your time of year, remember that in mid-March all the early spring flowers were in full bloom. If you went in April I know you would see colors in abundance everywhere. We have a much later spring in the Midwest USA, and in March they already had a good start on their growing season.<BR><BR>

Toni

Thanks all for your encouragment and suggestions! Jeanette...your recommendation sounds good. I'm not really sure on where to stay in that area and just thought Portofino would be a good spot. What hotel did you stay in when you were in Portovenere (sp?). Am also considering Santa Margherita. Anyone have any experiences?

Jeanette

We stayed in Rapallo at Hotel Europa, but did a long hike from Rapallo through Santa Margherita L. and into Portofino, and we walked back. It took all day and the road has tunneled sides and no room for part of the way between Rapallo and S.M.L.- so you have to be very, very careful. You do see Hannibal's 2000 plus year old bridge on the way though. <BR><BR>If I had a car I would have stayed in Portovenere. This town had a particularly great mix of the old and the new. Santa Margherita L. is the most popular tourist town and has the best and most top draw shopping. It is very pretty but seemed much more of a typical tourist town to me. We did spend some time there as they had a festival and great bonfire on the Saturday night we were in the area. But if not staying in the Cinque Terre itself, I would prefer Portovenere. We saw fewest tourists there- and it was wonderful to see the old defenses against the sea invasions here made into chapels etc. We really enjoyed their sea front walks etc. too. Also we hit some super friendly Italians and loved their versions of local pestos and other fast food faccacio's etc.<BR><BR>Rapallo had shopping too but more of the typical small shops of Ligure, and not so much the designer kind. It has a 7 or 8 block sea front promenade which the locals use for all purposes. There were many hotels/ B&amp;B's, large restaurants, small bars, gelatario etc. to pick from. The gelato was great everywhere, and in Rapallo you could find gelato, bakery and candy stores everywhere. Funny detail- all these places have BLOCKBUSTERS. They also have kiddy holes that look like ATM's where you can put in money etc. and it will spit out your VRC tape (movie) you want. In Italian, of course- but they looked super popular with the locals.<BR><BR>If money isn't a determining factor and you'd like to splurge, there is a BEAUTIFUL hotel in Portovenere called the Grand. Off season it is still twice the $$$ of the small three star where I stayed. On season, it runs $300-$400 a day. I took some literature from the lobby and if we ever get back to this region, I'll spend one night there on the drive South. I hope to drive down the entire country and get to Sicily on the next trip.

Toni

Saw the grand in my Fodors guide...a bit over my budget even for a splurge but maybe we could sneak in for a cocktail one evening. I think Portovenere sounds like the way to go. The hike sounds incredible but scary!

russ i

Toni,<BR><BR>Your itineray on 4/1 sounds perfect. I didn't see Rome on my first trip either, and never regretted it. I was better able to devote the time it deserves on a subsequent trip.<BR><BR>It sounds like your only unresolved issue is the Portofino/Santa Margherita/Cinque Terre/Portovenere issue. Firstly, you can't go wrong with any of these places. All of them are charming, and accessable with a car; however, I like to have travel options (to break up the drives and intereact with more people). <BR><BR>Portovenere is a bit of a drive from the Autostrada, so it is less convenient if you want to visit other towns on the coast. The boat to the CT doesn't run everyday late in the summer, and stops altogether in the fall and winter. There is also no train station in Portovenere for quick trips to a neighboring town.<BR><BR>Portofino, is a little more conveniently located. If you want to take the train to another town, you can drive 5 minutes or bus to Santa Margherita.<BR><BR>Santa Margherita and also the Cinque Terre towns are the easiest for taking the train to each other, but if you plan to drive the entire time, this would be a moot point. You won't find the super high-end hotels in the Cinque Terre you will find in the other towns, so this might also influence your decision.<BR><BR>I hope that this info helps instead of making it more confusing. Like I said, all of the them are beautiful and well worth the visit.

Toni

Yuh oh! I am a bit confused now. We will have a car the whole time we are in the Portofino/Portovenere area so will we still need to take trains and busses, boats to see the area? I was hoping to find a middle of the road/area where we could perhaps do some of that hike everyone talks about (the scary one)and drive from town to town using the town that we decide on as a base. I'm assuming that they are fairly close to one another?? <BR><BR> Also, another question. How long is the drive from Lake Como area to the Portofino area? Thanks. thanks, thanks all!

russ i

Toni,<BR><BR>I was afraid I might have been confusing. Yes, you CAN drive to any and all of the towns that I have mentioned, I was merely expressing my usual desire to "mix it up" a little - a little car, a little train, a little boat. <BR><BR>Feel free to stay in any of these towns and drive to the others. They are all lovely, just bear in mind that if you MUST DRIVE (assuming the bus is not part of your plans) if you stay in Portovenere outside of the summer season, i.e. no trains, no boats.<BR><BR>Also, in general, going by car can take a lot longer than going by train in this area. This is because it is very mountainous, and the trains go in a more direct path. Even though these towns may be "fairly close to one another", the drive usually entails driving from the town to the Autostrada via a winding road, then going north or south a bit on the Autostrada, and then back down to the coast to get to the next town. A train trip between 2 towns on the Cinque Terre might take 2-5 minutes. That same trip by car could take 20-45 minutes (depending which towns you are going between).<BR><BR>This does not mean you won't have a great time staying in any of these towns, just that if travel time is of any concern, you should be aware of these facts.<BR><BR>Finally, I recommend the following website for estimating driving distances and times between 2 or more points:<BR><BR>http://www.mapblast.com<BR><BR>That should go a long way towards answering your drive time questions. I hope this helps.<BR><BR>P.S. While possibly very nice, I don't think that the hike that Jeanette did from Rapallo to Portofino is the one to which most people are referring. The hike that most people talk about is in the Cinque Terre, between Monterosso and Riomagiore. The entire hike takes 3 1/2 - 4 hours if you don't stop and linger in each town in between, but what fun is that?<BR><BR>

russ i

Toni,<BR><BR>The second paragraph in my last post should read:<BR><BR>Feel free to stay in any of these towns and drive to the others. They are all lovely, just bear in mind that you MUST DRIVE (assuming the bus is not part of your plans) if you stay in Portovenere outside of the summer season, i.e. no trains, no boats.<BR><BR>In the revision above I have deleted one of the words "if" which had accidentally appeared twice and confused the meaning.<BR><BR>