Middle-aged couple travelling for the first time in Europe would like some advice as to where to go for about 21 days. Also wondering if better off with bus tour or by car?

Carole, <BR>You'll get many varied replies to your query from those who prefer the "comfort levels" offered by tours to those who prefer the freedom to stop and smell the roses as they see fit. I'm one of the latter and a firm believer in using motor transportation. To answer your question intelligently, however, we need to know your interests and those of your spouse. There is a lengthy thread here that you can find if you'll do a text search on "How do you plan your European trip?" that will greatly aid you in your decision making. To begin, however, visit your library and its travel section and pore over some of the guides available there to get a feel for what places, cities and countries particularly appeal to you. A word of caution! 21 days may give you the sense that you'll have time to see all of Europe; you won't. Don't be overly ambitious in your planning. 21 days can be quickly eaten up with a week in London and three or four day trips from there followed by a week in Paris and another three or four day trips, and with that you'll still hardly touched the surface of what Europe has to offer. If you want to "see" a lot and are prepared to pack and unpack every day or so, consider a tour. If you want to get a true feel for Europe and what it has to offer, consider the auto. Remember, Europe isn't going anywhere; what you don't get to experience now will be there for you at a later date.

Carole, <BR>Wes is right with his comments. <BR> <BR>Most people on this Forum do not take tours, you will find lots of info about not doing tours all over this Forum and I tend to agree as we are independent travelers ourselves. If, however, you do not feel comfortable with making the plans yourself (which we would all be happy to help you do) you might want to consider a tour, but opt for one that does not go to 21 cities in 21 days. Look very carefully at where they go and how long they stay in one place. Most give an "overview", i.e. no more than 2 nights (often 1), only drive by many major sights (read the wording carefully in the brochurs), many times you need to be up at dawn, luggage in hall, on the bus at 7:30 a.m. While this is not my idea of fun at all it may be OK for others. Read wordings carefully in tour brochures, see exactly where the hotels are located, see how many meals are included and how much free time is included (remember, arriving at a city at 4 p.m. and then saying "remainder of afternoon at leisure" is not going to give you much time for anything, particularly in areas where attractions and/or shops close at 5 p.m. <BR> <BR>If you decide to go it alone (my recommendation!!) don't overdo it. 21 days is alot, but it's not enough to see every sight in Europe (and remember what you saw!!). Since you have not been before I'd suggest flying into London, it eases the culture/language problems if that is an issue. London has so much to do you can spend 21 days there, but I'd stay at least a week and take a couple of day trips too (i.e., Hampton Court, Windsor, Greenwich). Then Eurostar over to Paris and spend another week, again a couple of day trips (i.e. Versailles, Fountainbleau, Chartres), the last week could be spent in Rome, Madrid, or wherever interests you. Staying put for a week at a time gives you a chance to settle down and enjoy a city more. A different city everynight would be nervewracking to me, but that's me! <BR> <BR>Also, consider your interests, what do you like, what do you enjoy seeing, and what have you always dreamed of seeing. <BR>Are your husband's interests similar? <BR>Make a list - prioritize and then work from there. <BR> <BR>If you decide to rent a car I'd again stay put for several days in one location and do day trips from a central spot. We've done that and it works great. Actually a week in London, then a week renting a car and doing some countryside in England is a good plan, and then go over to Paris for a week. Of course these are things I've done, it may not be for everyone but just figure out what interests you the most and work from there!! <BR> <BR>You will get tons of advice, but in the long run it is up to you and what you want from this trip. Keep us posted.

You might also want to consider something inbetween a "hold yours hands" bus tour and doing it on your own. Several companies including American Express, Delta and many others offer what is called an "independent," which covers hotel, first-class train reservations and a few other minor items. It gives you, in some ways, the best of both worlds. Your basics are taken care of, so you avoid a lot of the stress of first-time overseas travel, and at the same time have plenty of free time to do what you want. <BR>We did it and were very satisfied. We signed up for one and then extended for more days at the start of the trip. <BR>You still have the option of renting a car for part of the trip (e.g., you're in Florence and want to spend a day or two in the Tuscany countryside).

Carole, <BR>Howard has a good idea, I should have mentioned it as well. We have some friends who did just this (I think it was through TWA, but most airlines have some sort of package) and it was called "hosted" tour - a week in London & a week in Paris in their case with a city tour of each and one other thing that I can't remember, the rest was on their own. They had hotels and transfers taken care of which was good for them as they were first timers and a bit overwhelmed by it all. Once you do it that way it's a breeze to progress into totally independent!

Following up on my previous post, and responding to Lori: That's exactly what we plan to do on our next European trip, i.e., do it totally independently. We've already started planning!

Hi Carole, ...yes it is me, Annemarie. Hope this forum is helping you as much as it has helped me in the past. Will send up a ton on info with Danielle as I plan to see her on the wekkend. Take care and we will chat later...

I would second advice on packaged airline tours...but I think driving on one's own to be somewhat stressful -- especially in England. We had good luck with guided bus tours to places like Canterbury, Oxford, Cambridge, which are just mobbed anyway...Hotels can arrange these..they operate daily..also trains are great in and out of London and Paris and, again, hotels have the schedules. Nowadays you can fax the hotels for your schedules ahead of time and ask them to book you for various things if that makes sense (concerts, plays, etc)-Margaret

Thanks to A.M.for informing us about Forum & suggesting we post our "First time in Europe " question. And thanks to Wes for directing us to "How to plan your Euro. trip". That really helped plus reading `Fodore`s & several other sources at our small library & Chapters. <BR>We`ve now narrowed our 21 day trip to southern Germany, Austria, Switzerland, & France. We`re hoping to find a local tour agent who specializes in this area and certainly will look for "independent" style bus tours as described by Howard. Thanks for the tip. <BR>We also hear Horizon offers good Euro. bus tours. Any comments on any of this? Thanks in advance for I can`t tell you how helpful this has been for this Northern Ontario, Canada neophyte traveller. <BR>

You might want to check into a company called "Untour" -- they're along these independent travel lines. Set you up with an apartment, greet you at the airport and, I believe, offer a contact during your stay for questions, etc. We've had their brochures, but no experience with actually doing it this way. I think you can probably find a website for them. Enjoy!

Carole, just one clarification: What I was talking about is NOT a bus tour. You travel between cities by train. (I highly endorse this mode of transportation!) That was one of the things we like about the package. Once we got to each city, we had the usual half-day Amex tour (all very good). Otherwise, we on our own. In the case of Rome, Florence and Venice, we found it very easy to get around on our own.