We are trying to plan a 4 week Europe trip this summer for the month of June. We will be traveling in a group of 4; myself, my wife, her sister and a friend. We are in our 30's. We would like to do it by PTA (planes, trains, and automobiles). We would like to see many sights, but not feel overly rushed. I would like to feel a little of the culture we are visiting, and not rush from one tourist spot to the next.
While staying at or traveling to a main city, we would also like to venture away from the main tourists spots. Hence, the use of a car, where it makes the most sense.
Here is an idea of itinerary I have. I would appreciate any help. This is very over whelming.
Including – Routes, durations, when to use which mode of transportation, where to stay. Etc.

We are traveling from San Francisco, Ca
Amsterdam - 2 nights (Plane or train to Paris)
Paris - 5 nights (Plane or train to Barcelona)
Barcelona - 4 nights (Train or drive or both to S. France)
South France - 5 nights
Provence
Cannes
Nice (Train or drive or both to Cinque Terre)
Monaco
Cinque Terre - 1 or 2 nights (Train or drive or both to Venice)
Venice - 2 nights (Train or drive or both to Tuscany area)
Tuscany - 5 nights
towns
Florence
Siena (Train or drive or both to Rome)
Rome - 4 nights

If you stay in one location for say 2 nights that makes for one day. 3 nights =2 days etc.
If you like to pack and unpack this trip sounds great. I would slow down -travel less and see more.
If hiring a car in Spain you have to return it to Spain or pay a hefty repatriation fee.

Hello,

We are doing a similar trip at the end of June and the overwhelming advice i have recieved on these forums is to train or fly from country to country as the drop off for car hire is huge. I think you can lease a peugot if you have 18consecutive days car hire tho. I have been told to not attempt to drive to Cinque Terre as there is no parking and the roads are quite hairy. We are picking up a car at Oriveto outside Rome, driving thru Tuscany and dropping it off at La Spezia. Train from La Spezia to CT and then train to NIce. Picking up another car there to travel around Tuscany. Apparently the drive from CT to Nice is full of tunnels and not at all scenic so train is better option. We have been recommended to base ourselves in MOugins (outside Cannes) as traffic in and out of any of the major South of France cities is tailbacked for hours. Good Luck. And i would start booking accom asap as it's already getting tight

Hi, your plan looks good but I'd suggest cutting down a bit on the places you want to see. Generally in Europe I'd suggest travelling by train instead of flying, unless the train journey is very long (say over 6 hours). With flying, you have to get to the airport a couple of hours in advance plus you end up at an airport and have the commute into wherever you are staying. With the train, the main stations are always central so you skip the airport commute each way and you only have to be there about 15 mins before the train leaves - just enough time to find your platform and heave the suitcases and yourselves up the steps.

Other good reasons to travel by train or bus and not car - everyone gets to watch the scenery, no getting lost, no yelling at people who can't navigate (can you tell I've said "Left! Left! Oh sorry I meant right" more than once?) no trying to find parking and in Europe, parking can be impossible, no road tolls, no petrol costs etc.

I haven't checked journey times but if it was me, I'd get the train from Amsterdam to Paris. Also if you only have 2 nights and have just flown all the way from America you will be tired and jetlagged and may find you don't remember anything much from your one full day there.

I know a lot of people love Provence but we were distinctly underwhelmed and could not see what the fuss was about. Maybe it was the wrong time of year. Other parts of France we've loved. A word of warning - do not drive in Aix.

You can do a day trip by train to Monaco from Nice, no need to stay in Monaco.

Cinque Terre - don't do one night, you will just have arrived and have to leave. Stay 2 or 3 nights. Also recommend the train as these are tiny villages with no driving or parking within the towns.

Venice - as mentioned above 2 nights will only give you one day which is simply not enough in my opinion. On our last visit there we had 6 nights and were never bored.

What do you think about skipping Barcelona, Provence and Monaco and try having longer stops in places? It's your trip though and some people like to travel quickly. We've found the more we've travelled over the years, the slower we like to go and have at least 3 nights in most places. That's just us.

Kay

I won't say skip anything (after all, I'm sure you're already looking forward to the places you've selected), but I do suggest to add a few days since there are at least two places that you're not at all doing justice: Venice and Rome. If you have 5 nights in Paris, you'd need minimum 4 nights in Venice and 7 in Rome in order to see those cities the way you've seen Paris. The way you're planning it, you will feel very rushed in Italy as compared to France and Spain.

Two other areas where you MIGHT need more time are southern France and Tuscany, but that depends of course on how much and what you'd like to see there. I needed three full weeks for Tuscany, and felt pretty rushed in many places; but it's of course possible to enjoy Tuscany in 5 days, if you just select the places to visit carefully and wisely, and make sure that you're not jumping over the map of Tuscany (or southern France, for that matter) like a ping-pong ball.

I agree with others to stay in each destination a little longer. To do this and to also keep within your 4 week plan - I would drop Barcelona. It will take you at least 2/3 of a day to get to Barcelona from Paris, and then another half to 3/4 of a day to get to Provence from Barcelona. You can take the TGV directly from Paris to Avignon and it will only take you 3 hours - and there are many departures daily from Paris.

We've been to all the places (many many times) you plan on visiting. Here is what I would do:

- Fly to Amsterdam (we also live in SF) & stay for 3 nights

- Take one of the many 3 hr 20 min trains to Paris & stay for 5-6 nights

- Take the 3 hr TGV to Avignon, rent a car & stay in Provence for 5 nights.

- Drive to the Cote d'Azur (Nice) stopping in Aix along the way - just make sure that this day is not a Sunday or Monday when all the shops will be closed. Stay 5 nights in Nice. Keep the car 2-3 days & explore the Nice Hinterland by car. Explore the coastal towns by train. No need to stay anywhere else. I usually recommend St Tropez as a place to stay - but I think you will have a very hard time finding a hotel in St Tropez for 4 people this late in the year.

- Take the train to the Cinque Terre & stay for 3 nights. It will take you 2/3 - 3/4 of the day to get there from Nice.

- Train to Venice from Monterosso & stay for 3 nights. It will take you about 5 1/2 to 6 hrs to get to Venice by train - with 1 or more-likely 2 train changes.

- Train to Siena or Chuisi, rent a car, and stay in the Val d'Orcia near Pienza for 5 nights. Day-trip to Siena by car (less than 1 hr away). I love Florence - but not in late June (too crowded & hectic).

- Drive to Orvieto, dump the car, visit Orvieto, then stay overnight and take the train to Rome (or don't stay overnight in Orvieto & take the later train to Rome)

- Stay in Rome for 5 nights. I think that there is more to do & see in Paris than in Rome.

Stu Dudley

ffjerd

You should have booked Provence, Cinque Terre, and Tuscany several months ago for June travel. I suggest that you nail down your itinerary within the next 5 days. Start with the Cinque Terre first - because if you can't find anything available for 4 people - that will change your itinerary quite a bit.

Stu Dudley

ffjerd

what stu said.

Thank so much for the replies so far. We may also be able to add a few days to the trip to make it closer to 35 days. We do plan on packing light. And yes, fly open jaw. I didn't plan on driving at all in big cities. Just to go to or from to see the countryside and smaller towns. Or from a base. I figure we will do mostly trains. But, I wouldn't mind driving a little, maybe Tuscany.Is traveling from CT to Venice by train, and then Venice to Tuscany by train or car an acceptable way to go. I was thinking a car from Venice, to and while in Tuscany would be nice, to hit other towns. But maybe not.
I think we can add a day to Amsterdam. It would be nice to see, even briefly.
I understand Barcelona is not exactly on the path, But it is one of our top picks.
When traveling the South of France we do not need to spend nights at all the places listed, those are just ideas. I was also thinking, base around Nice or another spot (suggestions) and venture from there. We would like some beach time.
Same goes for Tuscany. Base somewhere and do day trips.
CT was also high on our list.
.
Thanks so much. You all are great....jared

Hi Jared,
This sounds like an awesome trip. Just keep in mind that you will be spending a lot of time traveling and probably won't be able to "exhale" a whole lot and get into each individual place. In the abstract, Europe looks like a bunch of dots on a map that look fairly easy to get to, point to point. But once you are there, the glory and the strangeness both kick in: foreign languages, different customs (places closed between mealtimes, etc.), unfamiliar road signs, and more. With an itinerary as packed as yours, be prepared for some amazing experiences. But also don't be surprised if you suffer some disappointments. Europe is a complex place full of REAL PEOPLE! Some of them will be kind and helpful, and some of them won't. You can't plan ahead for every eventuality.

Just FYI checking Kayak I note you can fly on Air France from Paris/Orly to Barcelona and then Barcelona to Lyon, France for $155. Each way is an 1.5hr or so flight. I just plugged in a random date in June.

Another FYI, you could take the city night line train from Paris to Barcelona --it leaves around 8pm and arrives Barcelona around 9am. The tickets may cost more pp but you don't pay for a hotel room, so it may be a wash cost wise and if so, then decision would be preference -- train or plane?