bobthenavigator

Pure folly!
Cut this in half and you will still be rushed. You do not understand the travel logistics.

ellenem

Yes, Jay,

I was trying to answer your questions the way you asked them. I forgot to add a synopsis to my previous post that I hope will help put it all in perspective. (Notes in parentheses indicate amount of actual touring time if all your travel connections go without a hitch.)

Sorrento: 2 nights
(half of Day 1; full Day 2; morning Day 3-Pompeii)

Rome: 3 nights
(evening Day 3; full Day 4; full Day 5)

Florence: 2 nights
(half Day 6; full Day 7; half Day 8)

Venice: 2 nights
(full Day 9)

Menaggio/Lake Como: 2 nights
(evening Day 10; full Day 11)

(Day 12 is all about leaving.)

I might have attempted the trip you describe years ago, but I wouldn't do it now. I especially share the concerns someone expressed about accomplishing this with 6 adults and all their habits. Good luck and do write a trip report.

Dayle

Jay,

One other key consideration with the itinerary you have planned: If you have certain sights that are "must sees" be SURE they are open during the small window you will be in each location!

SusanP

Jay, I really wasn't trying to be unfair, and I realize that people have different traveling styles. But even if you like to move fast, your proposed itinerary just isn't going to give you a great trip...as mentioned by several others, especially with six people. It definitely takes longer to do everything with that many people. I hope you have a great trip, but I think you'd have a better one if you cut something, which is why I suggested cutting Lake Como.

Jean

I guess you aren't discouraged from your plan, but consider:

Day 3 (Sorrento to Pompeii to Rome), factor nearly two hours in the morning to: meet up in the hotel lobby with luggage, check out (6 rooms?), load into two cabs, ride to train station, buy tickets, board train, ride to Pompeii, walk to entrance, check luggage, buy tickets. After you've spent whatever time at Pompeii, factor more than four hours to: re-claim luggage, walk to station, buy tickets, board train, ride to Naples, walk to the Trenitalia tracks, buy tickets, board train, ride to Rome, wait in taxi queue for two cabs, ride to hotel, check in. Four hours could easily become five hours if the Naples-Rome train is late or the taxi queue at the Termini station is more than 20-30 minutes (always a possibility). Somewhere in there, you'll want to eat lunch and dinner.

Day 6 (Rome to Tuscany, side to Pisa), the train from Rome to Siena is about three hours (not counting all the previously mentioned checking out/in, taxis, etc.). Then you're thinking of renting cars and driving two hours to Pisa? And two hours back? My only suggestion is that you carry excellent road maps and know where you're going to park in Pisa in high tourist season.

(And a general suggestion about rental cars, luggage and parking: You can only safely have two out of three. Parked rental cars loaded with luggage are extremely attractive to would-be thieves.)

Day 10: The train from Venice to Varenna is five hours (not counting all the previously mentioned ...). You don't need cars for your one day of relaxing on the lake.

Day 12: Depending on when you need to be checked in for your flight, you may want to consider private transportation to Malpensa or spending the prior night at a hotel closer to the airport.

jaylaveglia

Again, for those of you that took the time to offer suggestions and helpful thoughts, I really appreciate it. I'm taking all of it into consideration.

P.S.
Incidentally, as much as I like these boards it never ceases to amaze me that some people assume everyone's definitions of "rushed", "crazy", and "not a good vacation" are the same.

Mimar

I think Jay must have been using group tour itineraries for his template. In fact, for this kind of trip, it might be better to just take a tour of Italy. At least you probably won't skip the Amalfi coast.

jaylaveglia

Bob you are right. I dont know all the logistics which is why I asked the board for help.

I would have thought someone with their own website dedicated to helping people would have been able to offer something more than a condescending reply.

Jean

Apparently, your definition of "helpful thoughts" does not allow for any words of discouragement over what you described as a "first draft itinerary."

You asked for "all" feedback but then set forth a "goal" that several of us felt was unrealistic. What exactly did you want us to tell you?

jaylaveglia

Jean, your feedback WAS very helpful. It was exactly what I was looking for.

Many people disagree with my "goals" and posted why and what they would do different. That is helpful. I can pull pieces of advice from that. People just posting I am crazy, I dont know what I am doing, and I copy tour itineraries aren't helping at all.

willit

In defence of Bob, he organises this sort of thing for a living, so his "Pure folly" is the professional opinion of what others have been trying to say.

I had missed the bit about train to Siena. From Rome, the bus is as quick (2.5 - 3 hours), is much cheaper, doesn't need any changes and arrives in the centre of town rather than at the bottom of the hill a mile away.
www.sena.it

I appreciate that different people have different preference, but even for a "Whistle stop" tour of Italy your initial plan is hurried on the verge of impossible. As stated earlier, you will be spending as much time or more time travelling than siteseeing.

nosocksnoshoes

We went to Italy last summer.

My advice is if you want to see alot in a short period of time, go on a tour ~ the logistics are all worked out for you and they are experts at arranging everything.
There are multiple tours out there, you should find one that is close to where you want to go.

I do agree it is too rushed as it is(especially on your own) without a tour company taking care of everything including bookings, logistics, driving, etc. (many of the cities you cannot drive into the central area).

I know people on this board mostly travel without a tour group, but it can be a good choice for covering alot of ground in a short time especially for a "first visit" to a country or Europe.

A follow-up trip we would do on our own but the tour was absolutely a great experience and we saw alot.

Another thing if you have not been to Europe or overnight flights, do not underestimate the jet lag, etc.

When we arrived at our hotel in Rome we had been up for over 36 hours - as we had woken up on a Sunday morning, left on an overnight flight Sunday night, leaving at 11pm, NO sleep on the plane, arrived in Rome Monday afternoon Rome time.

Being awake for 36 hours straight does not make for the most pleasant travelling companions.

If own your own consider cutting at least Lake Como or Sorrento and possible both leaving the big three Rome/Florence/Venice and Tuscany & Umbria. I am a city girl and I loved the countryside in Italy.

Good luck!

cheryllj

Jay: I don't disagree with your goals at all, and I've been known to visit 3 countries in one week -- but I still think your original plan is a little bit unrealistic regarding the time and logistics of travel.

You can definitely visit Rome, Florence and Venice in 12 days (easily), and even add a side trip to the Amalfi Coast or Tuscany. But trying to visit Capri, AND Pompeii, AND Tuscany, AND Pisa, AND Milan AND Lake Como . . . it just isn't very practical. The time it takes to get to some of these places is going to eat up almost all of your time. You have to cut some things somewhere or your whole trip will be in cars and trains.

People may come across as rude, but most people are trying to help you have a better trip, based on years of experience visiting these places. Getting from place to place always takes much longer than you think it will. And eating meals and checking in/out takes longer too.

jamikins

My family of 7 (2 sets of parents, hubby and my bro and I) went to Italy in Sept for 3 weeks. We found it stressful enough doing Rome, Positano and Tuscany each for 1 week. With a group that size you really do lose 3/4 to a full day in travel by the time everyone is packed up, ready to move, in the taxi/public transit, waiting for trains, gets off trains, gets to the new place, unpacks...

I'm not trying to be a party pooper, just share our experience. With 12 days I would pick 2 places, seeing your goals I would pick 3 - 4 places TOPS. Everything takes so much more time than you think it will and you want to spend some time actually seeing, eating, drinkning, relaxing where you are. Any more than 3-4 places I would also suggest a tour. That way you can also relax

Also, since you are planning (I am assuming) you will not have a moment of peace where you arent trying to organize people...I felt that way with a week in one place...I cant even imagine your itinerary. For your own sake take a tour if you want to see more!

bobthenavigator

Sorry, but I was trying to be emphatic to get your attention---it seemed to work. It would take me some time to work out the practical logistics. For instance, look at day 6. That is all so flip that how can I comment other than to say you need help.
My best advice is to pick a max of 4 destinations and start over.

tropicaltraveller

I don't know if you have considered a cruise but I went on a Carnival Cruise Lines 12 night Mediterannean Cruise last year and saw every part of Italy and parts of Croatia, Spain, and France. The ship moves you to your new location each night. If you want to see each part of Italy I think this is the way to do it. This year, we are going to Italy again, spending a fews days in Tuscany and then on to Paris, and London. Give the cruise a thought. Hope this helps.

dina4

Jay,

I think if everyone in the group knows how to hustle and is in agreement, it might work out okay. And I'm not one to usually criticize rushed travel. Our first trip in Italy we did 1 week w/four places (Venice to Rome).


However, I do have a few thoughts:

1. it seems as though you are just sleeping in Sorrento in order to see Capri and Pompeii. Perhaps you should consider staying 2 nights in Capri, so you have 1 full day there, and then stop in Pompeii on your way back to Rome.

2. Another idea is to spend your first two nights in Rome since you'll be jetlagged when you arrive. You can later take a train directly to Florence from Naples or Sorrento or wherever you stay down south.

I would also leave out spending the night in San Gim. or Siena and just stay in Florence. I would do a day trip to the a hilltown or two from Florence, but I would skip Pisa for this trip.

Also, I hear you don't really need a car for the mid-lake region in Como. So it would save you some time to train directly to Lake Como from Venice than to get off in Milan to rent a car. If you really want a car, consider renting one in Como instead.

Good luck.
dina

dawnnoelm

Hi Jay,

We took the family to Europe last June/July - we were there about 16 days or so. One thing is that everything (almost) just took a little longer then one can plan. Train delays, flight delays, hotel check in and out - et. We did Paris, Montreux, Florence and Rome. We were exhausted by the time we got to Rome...

I would think Rome, Florence and Venice would be a good 12 days... on your day 6 you have getting from Rome to Tuscany - checking into your hotel and then going to Pisa... we went from Florence to Pisa for a day trip and it did take most of the day... we did not have to get from Rome to Tuscany and then to Pisa... just that is the kind of stuff I would eliminate.

checkerspot

Hi Jay. These boards can get pretty harsh really quick. But you know what, I love these Fodorites. I hope you don't take any comment personally. This is a very helpful blog for travellers.

Anyway, my family will be going to Italy this March. This is our first trip to Italy. Maybe after this trip, I can give a better comment to your itinerary (if you still want it). I assume this will also be your first trip to Italy?

Mind you, I will be travelling with my children aged 11 and 9. So as far as logistics and moving around, it will be a challenge in itself.

So anyway, I will let you know how our trip goes.