Despite the downturn, it is possible to be in a position of feeling unaffected. It's not fair to mock posters who haven't suffered major losses. Not everyone owns stock; not everyone needs to cash out their 401K in the next decade; not everyone's job is affected by market swings; not everyone bought their house at the peak of the bubble.

Personally I've been lucky -- but I certainly don't have my head under a mattress, and neither do the other posters who feel unaffected. And getting back to travel, as I said before, I think those of us who feel comfortable should continue to support businesses -- including airlines, hotels, restaurants, museums, local shops, and so on.

I was not referring to you, karameli. I was referring to other posts along the "I am not affected" line. I simply meant that everyone is affected whether he realizes it or not. I suppose if you have a 100% safe job (as in working for the federal government) and you bought your house 30 years ago and it is paid off, you might be a bit insulated from feeling affected for the moment.

By the way, karameli, I would say that in the current climate consumer confidence just is not there for most of us.

I noticed that because tourism in Europe seems to be down, we were able to get what I perceived to be much better rates on hotels and apartments in Italy and Ireland during peak season (June/July). So even though money is tighter, if the bargains are there because tourism is down, it does allow for more opportunity to travel.

PS* Sorry I got into the "unaffected" conversation, I didn't mean to be part of stirring it up quot;>

Some may "feel" it more than others and certainly, it has not changed our plan for vacation over the holidays.

My point was that anyone who has any type of account, whether a bank account, savings account, credit card, auto loan or mortgage will "feel" this at some point.

Perhaps you will wake up one morning to find your bank has been bought by another company overnight.

Perhaps you'll face an auto accident with an AIG insured and find whatever company buys that part of AIG less willing to be fair on your reimbursement and repairs.

Worse yet, perhaps your car will be totaled and you'll be forced to buy a new car. It will be very difficult for you to get a car loan, even with good credit.

Look at the food costs at the grocery store. A weekly order may cost you $20 more. When all other stocks fell on Monday, the only stock to show an increase was that good old comfort food, Campbells. And last week? One of the only companies to show a gain? Wal-Mart.
We're all assessing how we live and travel, how far we drive and what the return is on our 401Ks, if any.

In the south, we're waiting in line for a half hour or more just to fill our tanks if the station isn't closed.

Don't underestimate the power of the US Dollar abroad and don't think that you are insulated from the current economic state of our nation. Take advantage of circumstances that benefit you. Consider alternatives and do your homework.

As to this post being in the Europe forum, your decision to spend or not to spend abroad has an impact on Europe and the current exchange rate.

If you're going on vacation or traveling soon, call each vendor, rental car company and hotel and just ask if they have better rates than what you've currently booked. A last minute change could save you much money. And that matters, regardless of whether you feel unaffected or not by the current circumstances.

Anyone on the cusp of retirement, as I am, is going to be affected. At least Social Security was not privatized. Could you imagine if it was all in the market? I have a headache from this.

I am grateful for all the travel I have been able to do. Most people haven't been so lucky. I have been to Western Europe 20-30 times (stopped counting)and some other places as well. If I never go again, it would not be what I would like, but it would not be the end of the world either. After 9/11 tourism took a hit, and, instead of home exchanges (which weren't happening), I went on some smaller trips to New England, Niagara Falls and the Shaw and Shakespeare Festivals in Canada. It wasn't overseas, but it was nice nevertheless. There are plenty of places I could visit closer to home. If home exchange dies for awhile, I will do the same thing.

LaurenKahn1, even if Social Security was privatized, not "all" of the money would be in the market -- only a small portion. Plus, it is my understanding that the SS money would be invested in safer, less volatile instruments.

Over a long time horizon, I'll take private investment over the government any day.

We are still going to Europe via North America and returning via a cruise (Port Canaveral - Rio). I usually do this trip in conjunction with overseas market research for listed Australian and Singaporean companies - interviewing fund managers and broker analysts.

I'm not sure that I will have any clients for this trip (and if I do, will my usual interviewees be there?)

But the trip almost all paid for and hopefully things will look better next year.

I've been keeping an eye on priceline via Biddingfortravel.com for NYC in December and someone recently won the Times Square Westin for $180pn. Sheryl commented that "We would have never seen a deal this good in past years in New York City in mid-December."

I will be holding off for NYC and London as I don't think the prices will go up.

There have significant drops in cruise fares recently. Unfortunately, as I have an Australian TA, I'm not benefiting, but my mother (via a US TA) is looking at the price dropping quite a bit.

...however, the AUD/USD exchange rate has been savaged over the last couple of weeks

Today, I booked my bi-weekly AutoEurope 3-day rental in Paris which usually runs me 100€ and all of a sudden the price is 86€.

"Over a long time horizon, I'll take private investment over the government any day."

...as long, of course, as the government bails me out when the investment goes sour. Or when the investment managers steal my money.

Well that's just it, isn't it, Flanner?

Isn't the whole system based on the idea that what goes up may come down? If you put your money in the stock market you are gambling.

Now we are in a position where people like me who think if you gamble you should take your losses on the chin, are thinking .. but hey, if you do pay the price for your greed and folly, the whole lot of us go down too.

It shouldn't be beyond the wit of American legistators to find a way to pump liquidity in, but make damn sure that those responsible are either sent to jail or bankrupted.

I await the day. But don't expect it to ever arrive.

I always travel frugally. It's easier in a buyer's market. I also like to get away from the throngs of tourists so I guess every cloud has a silver lining.

I still firmly believe that time is more valuable than money, financial markets can't give me more or take any away.

BK writes,

>...even if Social Security was privatized, not "all" of the money would be in the market -- only a small portion. <

It would have been 1/3. That's not "small".

>Plus, it is my understanding that the SS money would be invested in safer, less volatile instruments.<

It would have been invested in the same manner as a 401K plan - thus subject to market conditions.

>Over a long time horizon, I'll take private investment over the government any day.<

Have you actually worked out the returns of putting money into SS vs putting it into a market index fund from 1970-2006?

I did.

Result: For a salaried couple, SS did much better.

Connection to European travel:

Because we do not rely on the small fraction of our savings that are in the stock market for anything but extras, we can afford to take advantage of the decrease in the Euro, should we wish to travel to Europe.

When my flights to Venice for Dec were too badly mangled to be viable and a refund was authorized (but not yet received!) I decided very reluctantly to skip the trip (or even a replacement location) because
1. They said it could take up to 2 billing cycles to get the refund;
2. I AM nervous about the economy and spending almost $2,000 on a trip - the governor of PA imposed a hiring freeze and I'm not too confident a furlough will not follow
3. i really need to redo my kitchen so I can put the hosue on the market

I'm not happy about it!!!

I am lucky that the financial crisis is not majorly impacting my standard of living right now - I am a nurse and since there's such a shortage in the field, I have pretty good job security. It has trashed my 401K for retirement and the equity in my house if I had to sell it now (which I don't). Like everyone else, though I need to cut back on my spending and make sure I do have enough money for retirement. What has impacted my travel spending much more right now, is the price of gasoline which has raised air fares so much. The dollar is stronger against the Euro than when I made my travel plans for Rome 7 months ago, and if it keeps at the value it is now, my trip (minus airfare which was paid for in US dollars) should cost about 10% less.

I live in Vegas, and the economy which was booming when I moved here in 2005, is beginning to really hurt, so those of you who want to come here on vacation, keep watching for bargains because they are lowering the cost of rooms all the time.

I was just in Vegas in June and I was shocked at how empty it was, it was more than it just being summer which is usually a little slower. Rooms at the Bellagio were going for $198!

The financial crisis has not deterred any of my travel plans. So far this year I have made 3 trips including one to Las Vegas and one to London & Paris.
I starting planning for my future about 35 years ago and now have enough to last me for the rest of my life and then some. Yes, I did live within my means!

I can confirm that we saw less British and US visitors to our vineyards this year than last. Scandananavia and Holland seemed to fill the gaps that would otherwise have been there, so those in the Eurozone or with strong currencies.

Strangely there have been more US enquiries over the past week than for quite a while - not sure what this implies.

For ourselves, Italy was depressed already, although housing markets are not as heavily leveraged. So a little more belt tightening, but we had virtually stoped non-essential spending already.