lexluther

London 3 nights. Eurostar to Paris 3 nights, train to Strasbourg 3 nights with day trips (car rental) to freiburg, obernai, riquewihr. Drive to Luxembourg for 2 nights day trips to Trier, Echternach, Vianden. Drive to Brussels via Namur. 2 nights Brussels, drive to Brugges with a stopover in ghent. 2 nights brugges, drive to Antwerp 2 nights, drive to Amsterdam 3 nights with a side trip to Haarlem.

Any thoughts on this itinerary (Dec 13 through January 3rd). Is it well spaced out based on the places I am going too? Have done a fair amount of research so I think it is pretty well planned - what are your thoughts?

Budget for the trip is $10,000 US (including airfare and everything else).

janis

I'm not going to comment on your actual itinerary (I do not know enough about some of the places you plan as day trips) . . . . But Do you really want to plan a driving tour in that area in late Dec/early Jan? You'll likely hit really bad weather and snow.

ira

Hi lex,

8 cities in 20 days with daytips to another 8.

Is this an expedition or a vacation?

lexluther

Ira,

I didn't think that this trip itinerary looked too "busy". Anyone else there agree with IRA or do you think my trip itinerary is good.

janis

I totally agree w/ Ira. My original comments were because I do not know much or anything about Riquewihr, Echternach, Vianden or Namur.

But I DO know a lot about London, Paris, Amsterdam and winter travel and road in northern Europe.

This is not a journey I would take - especially by car.

With 20 days I'd probably do somethin like 6 or 7 days in London, 6 or 7 days in Paris, 2 nights in Brugges, and 3 or 4 nights in Amsterdam.

And I'd do 1 or 2 day trips out of London, Paris and Amsterdam by train.

Travelnut

I don't know a thing about driving Europe in winter, so no comment there... The basic itinerary to me is fine, because the day trips can always be modified or some can be dropped depending on circumstances...At least he's spending 2-3 nights at each major location.

topcat

My wife and her sister were in Belgium and Germany in March of this year. Although they planned to drive, they ended up taking the train due to heavy snow, with many roads closed.

I'm also planning a 20 day trip next year. Our itinerary is tentatively 5 nights London, Eurostar to Paris for 5 nights, train to Brugge for 5 nights(with day trips to Antwerp, Ghent, Brussels), then the last 5 nights in Amsterdam, with day trips TBD.

nytraveler

Agree that this looks much more like a forced march than a vacation - especially in winter when weather conditions - even if they don;t close any roads - will certainly make driving slower and more stressful. (Did some driving along the rhine in Feb after a business trip - and we ended up curtailing the trip just because the roads were so bad.)

I would reduce to 4 or at absolute most 5 stops

lexluther

Well I don't think sleeping in Strasbourg and taking a drive down to riquewhir one day and freiburg another day can be "stressful". I also don't think that sleeping in luxembourg and taking a drive to echternach is "stressful".

As far as road conditions, I have only been to Europe in Winter (4 times) and have always driven. Have been November and December. Haven't had any experience with road closures but I can always modify the itinerary.

Janis - your itinerary of london 7 nights, paris 7 nights brugge 2 nights and amsterdam 3/4 nights is not my kind of trip - I enjoy little towns as a break between the big cities, and I get bored after 3 or 4 nights in one place.

Topcat, your itinerary is very similiar - I am basically doing the same but knocking 2 days off of paris and london to give me time for strasbourg.

Also, I have been to Paris 4 times before, London 3 times, Amsterdam once so I would like to see new things. I will be back in Paris, and London many times.

If you think this trip is "stressful" you might have cardiac arrest if you read my "barcelona to venice with kids"
thread. 15 cities in 18 days all by car with a 1 1/2 year old baby and a 4 yr old. This time they are 2 1/2 and 5 - piece of cake

ira

Enjoy your trip, Lex.

Let us know how it went.

degas

I'd skip Brussels and add the time to London and Paris.

mamc

Lex asked for our thoughts; we gave them. He isn't interested. Now we can only hope, as we do for everyone, that Lex enjoys his trip. Have a stressless and trip, Lex.

111op

Brussels, Brugges, Ghent, Antwerp take up 6 nights in this itinerary. I've not been to Brugges or Ghent, but I do wonder if the time spent here should be shortened. Is this your first trip to Europe?

How many people are going on this trip? (For how many people is the budget of 10K?)

111op

Oops -- never mind, you wrote that you've been to London and Paris many times.

Well, have a good trip -- you should know what you're doing.

tcreath

I personally think that the itinerary looks fine, especially if you are visiting a few places you have already been to, which cuts down on some of the "must sees" that you probably already have seen. If it were me, I would probably cut out one or two of the places just to cut down on car travel time, but I think its fine.

Weather in winter is unpredictable, just like in the states. Sure, it could be snowing, but there is also a good chance that it won't snow at all during the entire trip. We've had Decembers with weather in the 60's (and Aprils when it has snowed), and I live in midwest.

Many people on these boards prefer to spend a lot of time in one place, which is absolutely fine, but when my husband and I travel we often spend 3-4 nights in one place and then off to another. This often seems hectic to a lot of people, but it works for us. We spend all day sightseeing and lingering and manage to get a pretty good feel for the places we've been in a short amount of time. I think it all depends on the traveler. Basically I think only you can make the decision on whether you think the trip is too hectic or not because you know what kind of traveler you are.

lexluther

tcreath, well said you are right - each to his own. Degas I am considering shortening brussels and antwerp although my experience with driving has been that if you stop along the way you only get into a city in the late afternoon. Having to leave the following morning does not allow enough time to relax and see the city which is why I don't want to do one night stops.

Having said that, I will consider the advice of others and perhaps shorten the list of places to see around strasbourg. Alternatively maybe I will add a few more nights to the length of the trip to slow it down a bit.

Thanks for all the advice to everyone

lexluther

Leaving tomorrow! Added 2 nights to the trip. Will post an extensive trip report with pictures. Anyone have a good idea on best place to post pictures? I have a snapfish account so if that works I will post there.

Lex

LisaMS

Enjoy! Loved Riquewihr and Ribeauville so don't mark them off your list!

Gretchen

Well, you asked what folks thought and they told you. I think it is too busy but you seem to like that sort of thing so do it. I don't think it is particularly stressful--just, if it's Tuesday, it must be Belgium. I personally HATE checking into and out of a lot of hotels. I haven't counted yours but it is too many for me.

ira

Hi Lex,

Enjoy your motor trip.

Many folks on this forum have been using http://www.ofoto.com to post pix.