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Feb 21st, 2013, 02:21 AM
  #1
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Family History Research

We are 2 middle aged ladies hoping to come to London in Sept to do research and also spend time in the country side, we will not be able to hire a car.
Where would be the best part of London to stay, would like a small hotel guest house or B/B
Coming from Australia staying about 3 - 4 weeks
Any suggestions would be very helpful
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Feb 21st, 2013, 02:53 AM
  #2
 
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Guest houses and B&B's are hard to find in London. For 3-4 weeks I would look for a flat. That also gives you the flexibility of being able to cook your own meals.

There are lots of threads on here about renting flats, in all price ranges. Anywhere close to a tube station in central London would be good; South Kensington, for example.
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Feb 21st, 2013, 03:17 AM
  #3
 
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Having been intensely involved over the last ten days in trying to find an ancestor who had disappeared to the States, I have had cause to reflect on how easy it is to trace people on the net. When I started doing this you had to visit County repositories during office hours and churches when you could persuade the vicar to open up. Having successfully found family in Maryland a nd spoken to them I realised that this would not have happened if I had had to travel to find each piece of information
However there are two situations where you will still travel.
1. The further back you go the more inaccurate the search engines become and you may have to visit the place that the records are kept to find out more
2. Part of the process for me is seeing where ancestors lived and were buried- sometimes being the first person from their homeland to lay flowers on along forgotten grave
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Feb 21st, 2013, 03:20 AM
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Sorry-posted before I'd finished.
Do not commit to spending a month in one place as you may also want to visit a particular location.
Can we help you with any research before you arrive?
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Feb 23rd, 2013, 08:24 PM
  #5
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Frances thank you for your reply, yes net is great but as you pointed out great visiting places they lived. I am trying to trace a relative who would have lived in Sussex area Born 1853? 1854
The story goes he was a foundling left on a doorstep? was my fathers great Grandfather
John Burton
Discovered on census Son of a Mary Burton who was born 1830
1841 Census Mary living with her father Heathfield
1851 census Mary now 21 unmarried
1871 census at Clappers Heathfield in house with son aged 17, this son married in 1875
I have marriage certificate stating Father was Peter Paine
1881 Mary at Old toll gate Hailsham age 50 single servant
Nothing after that, how would I find Mary death or Peter Paine
If you could guide me would be a great help
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Feb 23rd, 2013, 11:08 PM
  #6
 
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For much of the birth and death records, you could start with www.ancestry.co.uk. You will have to pay for access, but it will help you narrow down your options.

You may also find something useful on http://theweald.org (there seem to be some likely candidates for Mary Burton and Peter Paine).

See also http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/

One you know which particular parishes you might need to research in more detail, it might also be worth visiting the Society of Genealogists library (near Barbican tube station):
http://www.sog.org.uk/library/intro.shtml

If you need to get to Maidstone (for parish records in Kent) or Lewes (for parish records in Sussex), these are about 1/1.5 hours from London by train.
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Feb 23rd, 2013, 11:43 PM
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There are virtually no useful accessible birth or death records in English locations where people were actually born: to all intents and purposes, all births marriages and deaths in England from around 1860 are in the central births, marriages and deaths system, which is almost entirely online.

You MIGHT get richer information (like the name of witnesses) from church records, and these will almost always be in county record offices, or sometimes central offices of the denomination concerned: they're scarcely ever in the church concerned. The Society of Genealogists is rarely useful once the national record system kicked in fully (it gets better between about 1840 and 1860)

Census information for England is not available to the public after 1911: it's all online up to 1911.

There are often quite good, free, records of 19th century England on the Mormons' site (https://familysearch.org/)

Obviously, lots of different things (including migration out of England) might have happened to Mary Burton after 1881. Including your getting confused by similar-sounding names: strictly speaking, if she was married in 1851, she should not have appeared in an 1881 census as "single", and the possibility she's a different Mary Burton is as likely as her boss's confusion or someone lying.

Usually, though, the first port of call is the next decade's death registers (online)

Can't remember the practicalities, as censuses started asking more questions after 1841, but surely the 1841 census gives Peter Paine's age and his place of birth? The Mormon site is usually the best place to start for people born in England around 1800. National records of deaths between 1840 and 1870 can be patchy, and again the Mormon site might help. Remember that the idea of a "correct" spelling wasn't universal for surnames in the mid-19th century and he could easily be recorded as Pain.

One other sad point: very few poor people in England until the early 20th century (and by no means all since) have a visible grave. Often (but not always) the location of their burial place may be recorded in the directory of what's now a municipal cemetery: but most people in 19th century England went into unmarked - and often untraceable - plots of earth. In rural England, it's a reasonable assumption that plot is in the graveyard of the church their funeral service was held in. Which is why so much of the average rural churchyard now looks like simply grass.
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Feb 24th, 2013, 01:03 AM
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A word of warning.

While FamilySearch (the LDS website) is a useful guide to births and marriages, it is much less comprehensive for burials. I think this is because death is considered a less important event for Mormons, since they are then reunited with their deceased ancestors.

Any information you find on FamilySearch, you must check against the original records. It contains some serious errors and misleading information. I certainly know of events being attributed to the wrong parish. You also need to know about the difference between speculative information and that which results from a transcription.

If John Burton was born illegitimate, then you might find that a bastardy order was made against his father. I have checked "The Sussex Poor 1801-1850" by Michael Burchell, available on CD from the Parish Register Transcription Society but cannot find any of the names you quote. I think it would nevertheless be worth checking at the East Sussex Record Office at Lewes, as the parish registers may contain some relevant information.
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Feb 24th, 2013, 03:29 AM
  #9
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Thank you to everyone who replied with info, I will check out the sites suggested and let you know my progress very exciting"

Getting off research subject does any one know of [email protected] aptslondon.co.ukThe apartments look good on the site and reasonable Thanks
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Feb 24th, 2013, 03:44 AM
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>> surely the 1841 census gives Peter Paine's age and his place of birth? <<

If memory serves, that's the one where they were only asked to say if they were born in the parish they were living in.
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Feb 24th, 2013, 04:07 AM
  #11
 
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Correct, and age in 1841 was rounded up to the nearest 5 years too (except for chldren). But if you can find his burial in the Heathfield parish registers, that should give an age at death.
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Feb 24th, 2013, 04:10 AM
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Oh, and ESRO is moving this summer, so you need to make sure they'll be open when you're there.
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Feb 24th, 2013, 11:33 AM
  #13
 
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studley: getting back to your rental search . . . Can you give us a better link? I can't find a 'cheap apartments London' or a 'booking cheap apts london' and have not heard of the site.

Also, what is your budget - either per night/week or for the full month?
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Feb 24th, 2013, 09:42 PM
  #14
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Janisj Thank you for your interest the site was Home Cheap Apartments London

Address Cheap Apts London
70 Whitehall SW/A2AS
London England

Would be looking at up to $1000 Aust for week, something with 2 Bedrooms
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Feb 24th, 2013, 10:58 PM
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A 2 bdrm for £675/Aus$1000 will be a fairly tall order. There are many one bedrooms for that sort of rate. Most 1 bdrms are set up to sleep 3 or 4 so would be plenty of space for two ladies. Either w/ twin beds or a sofa sleeper.

These 1bdrms would fit w/i your budget in low season but are over it during high season - inc. Sept. But since you want to book an extended period they might cut you a deal.

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~hamlet_uk/

BTW - Unless you can give us an actual link/url I'd avoid that 'agency'. If you meant SW1A 2AS / Whitehall . . . that is next door to 10 Downing Street. I'm pretty sure the Prime Minister wouldn't allow an estate agent to run out of one of the Cabinet offices(!)
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Feb 24th, 2013, 11:44 PM
  #16
 
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70 Whitehall is the address of the Cabinet Office http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cabinet_Office

Maybe someone is doing a bit of moonlighting as well as running the country?
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Feb 25th, 2013, 01:55 AM
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>>I'm pretty sure the Prime Minister wouldn't allow an estate agent to run out of one of the Cabinet offices(!)<<

Nothing would surprise me. That man's got "estate agent" written all over his face.

But seriously, following up on the details on the site studley mentions, the phone numbers on that site look somewhat inauthentic to me too. And oh look:
http://www.scamwarners.com/forum/vie...p?f=39&t=51858

You'd think someone might put a bit more thought into it.
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Feb 26th, 2013, 01:54 AM
  #18
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Thank you everyone for alerting me to the scams going on, how easily one could get trapped booking from a distance.

Can anyone advise a good area we could base ourselves for 5 to 7 days near London on arrival from Australia, also best means of public transport as everyone tells us trains are very expensive. would $150 Aust dollar per day be a reasonable rate to budget on
We do not want expensive hotels, quite like the sound of B/Bs
Hoping to go to the Cotswolds area is public transport easy to get there, a hire car would be great but both a bit nervous about driving
All the lovely photos and descriptions of England are very enticing, but 2 ladies trying to plan a holiday and tread the unknown is quite off putting.
Thanks for all the above warnings"
Looking forward to any suggestions Cheers
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Feb 26th, 2013, 10:19 AM
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"Can anyone advise a good area we could base ourselves for 5 to 7 days near London on arrival from Australia, also best means of public transport as everyone tells us trains are very expensive."

I might consider staying a few days on arrival in Bath. Easy express coach from LHR to the center of Bath. Bath itself is good for a couple of days but I'd maybe stay there 5-ish. Reason being, there is a tour company - Mad Max (don't be put off by the name ) - that does very good small group tours from Bath. Some of the options include Stonehenge/Avebury/Lacock. Another is a full day in the Cotswolds.

http://www.madmaxtours.co.uk/

Trains can be expensive - or not. Some ways to save ££ include booking well in advance, not traveling at peak hours (primarily morning commute before 9:30 and sometimes during the afternoon commute), buying a senior rail card. This cost (I think) £28 and saves you 1/3 on most train trips.

But w/ a few days in Bath you really wouldn't need take many trains. A coach from LHR is better than a train. You could take a train to Oxford . . . but actually Oxford is better/cheaper visited from London by express bus.

In London you'd take a train to Hampton Court Palace (inexpensive and covered by the Oyster card), Windsor (inexpensive), maybe Canterbury (fairly inexpensive)
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Aug 21st, 2013, 12:14 PM
  #20
 
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studley
Stumbled across your entry of Feb 24th from a google search.
Studley is my great grandmothers surname and I was born a Burton.
John Burton is also my great great grandfather and I got a copy of his wedding certificate today which I ordered trying to find out who his father was. As you say, it just says Peter Paine but no occupation. I cannot find anything else. If you do make it over here and find out anything more I would really appreciate you letting me know. Good Luck! Many thanks
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