Experiences with a Garmin GPS in Europe
Oct 14th, 2011, 05:46 PM
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Experiences with a Garmin GPS in Europe
This posting on using a Garmin GPS in France is taken from my blog entry "Recalculating!", which has some other thoughts about GPS units as well. The more complete version, which has some photos, can be seen at:
http://ljkrakauer.com/LJK/00s/recalculating.htm
Although I report here on using our GPS unit in France, we've had similar experiences with it in Italy and Spain. Hence I've tagged this report with France, Italy, and Spain, the countries we usually visit, and about which we usually post. I hope this information is interesting and useful. I don't consider this to be a "Trip Report".
<b>A Garmin GPS in France</b>
Just before our recent trip to the Dordogne region of France, we purchased a new Garmin Nüvi 1370T GPS. We chose it in part because it comes with maps of both North America and Europe pre-installed.
Flying into Bordeaux, we picked up our rental car, and entered the address of our hotel into the GPS. A couple of hours later, we arrived in Saint Émilion, at the North end of town, where the GPS told us to turn down an absolutely impossible street (too narrow and winding and steep for the car).
After circling around the block a few times, we parked in the center of town and found the Tourist Office. The woman there informed us that our hotel was in the south part of town, and that it was impossible (despite the advice of the GPS) to drive through the town from the north part to the south part. She told us how to drive out of town and around to the south part, where we located our hotel. The next morning, we walked UP the street that the GPS had wanted to take us DOWN. While not drivable, it's perfectly walkable, although steep. There's a picture in the blog of Margie walking up it, although it doesn't clearly show the very sharp turn that would have been necessary to go down it in a car.
In researching GPS units, I've gotten the impression that TomTom units are a bit better in Europe, and Garmin better in the US (although this is rather a casual impression). Since most of our use is in the US, we've generally purchased from Garmin. But in using two different Garmin units in France, Italy, and Spain, we've found that it has sometimes turned us off onto some pretty dicey roads. I think that even small roads that are mapped in the US meet certain minimum standards. This doesn't seem to be the case in Europe.
Frequently, we'd be on a main road that looped around a small hillside town, and upon entering the town, the GPS would tell us to turn. Suddenly, the road would tip down in a 25 percent grade, turn to dirt, and narrow to a couple of inches wider than the car. After a few hairy turns, we'd pop back out onto the main road at the bottom of the village. Sure, it had cut off some distance, but after a while we learned to ignore these suggestions and stay on the main road (<i>"Recalculating!"</i
.
On our recent French trip, while driving north from Sarlat on the D704, when the road main road wiggled to the left, the GPS told us to keep right at the intersection. The right went in a straight line, and hence was shorter than the main road, which looped around to the left. But it was obvious to us at the time that we ought to stay on the main road, and we ignored the GPS's advice. We did this frequently (<i>"Recalculating!"</i. There's a satellite view of all this on the blog entry.
Why would the GPS tell us to bear right at that point? A better question is, why would it not? The route to the right was shorter, but the GPS is programmed to calculate a route with the shortest <b>time</b>, not the shortest <b>distance</b>. If it knew that the local road to the right had a substantially lower speed limit than the main road to the left, it would have taken us to the left, staying on the main road. Thus I get the impression that the problem with its European maps is that it doesn't have enough information about relative speeds that can be traveled on different roads. Yet at times, the European maps seem to contain speed information that is often lacking from the US maps. At one point, the GPS beeped at me for exceeding the speed limit, and it often displayed the speed limit in the lower right corner of the screen.
The Garmin GPS in Europe had a general tendency to take us on very small roads, if they were direct and cut off some distance. It took us over some roads that were so narrow, that they had stretches in which I couldn't imagine what I would do if a car appeared in the opposite direction. But in general, these small roads had very little traffic on them.
Here's some <i>speculation</i> about a possible reason that a GPS unit might tend to take drivers off on small roads in Europe: in Europe, there's a greater variety of roads of various sizes that are all two-lane roads. In France, many of the "Departmental" roads (designated with a "D", like the "D704"), are quite good, with good shoulders and wide lanes, but they are still only two-lane roads. Perhaps the database used in the GPS doesn't distinguish, in terms of average speed, between a road like that and a much smaller (but still paved) road with narrow lanes and no shoulder. Perhaps the database considers these two types of two-lane roads to be equivalent. Then, of course, given a choice, it will go for the shorter of the two possibilities
Once, heading for the town of Le Bugue, our GPS took us over a rather convoluted route, on scenic roads. This seemed a bit odd, since the most direct route, from the map, seemed to be the main road to Les Eyzies-de-Tayac. The route computed by the GPS was no doubt a tiny bit shorter in distance, but the twisty roads, I think, made it take substantially longer. This caused me to check the setting of the GPS to see if it might be set up to choose the route of shortest distance instead of shortest time. But it was indeed set up for shortest time. This was really the same issue we had encountered on the D704.
Although the route was very scenic, we chose to come back the other way, repeatedly ignoring the instructions from the GPS unit (<i>"Recalculating!" "Recalculating!"</i. From our experience on this trip, as on all our earlier trips, it's unwise to depend on a GPS alone. A general problem with any GPS is that you can become addicted to it, and lose track of the larger picture of where you are. Margie learned to follow along on a good conventional map of the area.
There was another GPS problem in the countryside: many places didn't seem to have an actual address - that is, an actual street name and number. When phoning one of the local attractions, I asked for an address to put into my GPS. The woman said something like, "We're in the countryside - we don't have addresses." The result: there's nothing to put into the GPS as a destination.
One restaurant we set out to find was <i>Le Près Gaillardou</i>. We went to the trouble before leaving our apartment of looking up its web site, and then trying to locate it on the French "Mappy" site. But its address was only <i>"Lieu dit Gaillardou, 24250 La Roque Gageac"</i>. <i>"Lieu dit Gaillardou"</i> just means "place called Gaillardou", which is pretty vague (and the restaurant didn't seem very concerned about this, since they didn't have detailed directions on their web site). We did find it, by the way, and had a nice meal there.
On one occasion, trying to get to <i>Les Jardins de l'Imaginaire</i>, we drove into the town of Terrasson. There we hit a massive traffic jam, and it took half an hour to get out the other side of the town. Having missed our tour of the gardens, we changed our plans, and set off for the <i>Chateau de Hautefort</i>. Upon setting the GPS for Hautefort, it told us to turn around and drive back through Terrasson. Fat chance - we weren't going back through that mess.
Consulting a map, we instead drove east a bit (the wrong direction), until we could go north to hook up to the A89. The GPS bitched every step of the way, saying <i>"Recalculating!"</i> each time we ignored one of its suggested turnarounds. Only as we approached within a kilometer or so of the A89 did it decide that the highway was now the better route to Hautefort. After visiting the <i>Chateau de Hautefort</i>, we drove straight home on the D704, ignoring all pleadings to branch to the east for a slightly shorter route on dubious roads. By then we had gotten very good at knowing when to ignore the GPS's advice.
At the end of our trip, we spent a night in Bordeaux, to be able to catch our very early flight the next morning. I knew I would have trouble entering the <i>All Seasons Bordeaux Aeroport hotel</i> into the GPS, because the address was shown as <i>"95 Avenue JF Kennedy"</i>. So just what do you type for the street name? Do you leave off the "<i>Avenue</i>"? I tried <i>"JF Kennedy"</i> both with and without the "<i>Avenue</i>", but in both cases got "Not found". I tried various other combinations of the JF with and without spaces.
Finally, I just entered "Kennedy", and that did it, so apparently you need to just get a partial match. If you enter too much, it kills the match. When the street with a name matching "Kennedy" was finally displayed by the GPS, it showed the full name to be <i>"Avenue du Président John Fitzgerald Kennedy"</i> - that's what I would have had to have typed to get an exact match. The route circled Bordeaux, and the GPS took us straight to the Hotel.
Like any tool, the GPS has its strengths and weaknesses, but overall we find it enormously useful in both the United States and Europe.
http://ljkrakauer.com/LJK/00s/recalculating.htm
Although I report here on using our GPS unit in France, we've had similar experiences with it in Italy and Spain. Hence I've tagged this report with France, Italy, and Spain, the countries we usually visit, and about which we usually post. I hope this information is interesting and useful. I don't consider this to be a "Trip Report".
<b>A Garmin GPS in France</b>
Just before our recent trip to the Dordogne region of France, we purchased a new Garmin Nüvi 1370T GPS. We chose it in part because it comes with maps of both North America and Europe pre-installed.
Flying into Bordeaux, we picked up our rental car, and entered the address of our hotel into the GPS. A couple of hours later, we arrived in Saint Émilion, at the North end of town, where the GPS told us to turn down an absolutely impossible street (too narrow and winding and steep for the car).
After circling around the block a few times, we parked in the center of town and found the Tourist Office. The woman there informed us that our hotel was in the south part of town, and that it was impossible (despite the advice of the GPS) to drive through the town from the north part to the south part. She told us how to drive out of town and around to the south part, where we located our hotel. The next morning, we walked UP the street that the GPS had wanted to take us DOWN. While not drivable, it's perfectly walkable, although steep. There's a picture in the blog of Margie walking up it, although it doesn't clearly show the very sharp turn that would have been necessary to go down it in a car.
In researching GPS units, I've gotten the impression that TomTom units are a bit better in Europe, and Garmin better in the US (although this is rather a casual impression). Since most of our use is in the US, we've generally purchased from Garmin. But in using two different Garmin units in France, Italy, and Spain, we've found that it has sometimes turned us off onto some pretty dicey roads. I think that even small roads that are mapped in the US meet certain minimum standards. This doesn't seem to be the case in Europe.
Frequently, we'd be on a main road that looped around a small hillside town, and upon entering the town, the GPS would tell us to turn. Suddenly, the road would tip down in a 25 percent grade, turn to dirt, and narrow to a couple of inches wider than the car. After a few hairy turns, we'd pop back out onto the main road at the bottom of the village. Sure, it had cut off some distance, but after a while we learned to ignore these suggestions and stay on the main road (<i>"Recalculating!"</i
. On our recent French trip, while driving north from Sarlat on the D704, when the road main road wiggled to the left, the GPS told us to keep right at the intersection. The right went in a straight line, and hence was shorter than the main road, which looped around to the left. But it was obvious to us at the time that we ought to stay on the main road, and we ignored the GPS's advice. We did this frequently (<i>"Recalculating!"</i
. There's a satellite view of all this on the blog entry.Why would the GPS tell us to bear right at that point? A better question is, why would it not? The route to the right was shorter, but the GPS is programmed to calculate a route with the shortest <b>time</b>, not the shortest <b>distance</b>. If it knew that the local road to the right had a substantially lower speed limit than the main road to the left, it would have taken us to the left, staying on the main road. Thus I get the impression that the problem with its European maps is that it doesn't have enough information about relative speeds that can be traveled on different roads. Yet at times, the European maps seem to contain speed information that is often lacking from the US maps. At one point, the GPS beeped at me for exceeding the speed limit, and it often displayed the speed limit in the lower right corner of the screen.
The Garmin GPS in Europe had a general tendency to take us on very small roads, if they were direct and cut off some distance. It took us over some roads that were so narrow, that they had stretches in which I couldn't imagine what I would do if a car appeared in the opposite direction. But in general, these small roads had very little traffic on them.
Here's some <i>speculation</i> about a possible reason that a GPS unit might tend to take drivers off on small roads in Europe: in Europe, there's a greater variety of roads of various sizes that are all two-lane roads. In France, many of the "Departmental" roads (designated with a "D", like the "D704"), are quite good, with good shoulders and wide lanes, but they are still only two-lane roads. Perhaps the database used in the GPS doesn't distinguish, in terms of average speed, between a road like that and a much smaller (but still paved) road with narrow lanes and no shoulder. Perhaps the database considers these two types of two-lane roads to be equivalent. Then, of course, given a choice, it will go for the shorter of the two possibilities
Once, heading for the town of Le Bugue, our GPS took us over a rather convoluted route, on scenic roads. This seemed a bit odd, since the most direct route, from the map, seemed to be the main road to Les Eyzies-de-Tayac. The route computed by the GPS was no doubt a tiny bit shorter in distance, but the twisty roads, I think, made it take substantially longer. This caused me to check the setting of the GPS to see if it might be set up to choose the route of shortest distance instead of shortest time. But it was indeed set up for shortest time. This was really the same issue we had encountered on the D704.
Although the route was very scenic, we chose to come back the other way, repeatedly ignoring the instructions from the GPS unit (<i>"Recalculating!" "Recalculating!"</i
. From our experience on this trip, as on all our earlier trips, it's unwise to depend on a GPS alone. A general problem with any GPS is that you can become addicted to it, and lose track of the larger picture of where you are. Margie learned to follow along on a good conventional map of the area. There was another GPS problem in the countryside: many places didn't seem to have an actual address - that is, an actual street name and number. When phoning one of the local attractions, I asked for an address to put into my GPS. The woman said something like, "We're in the countryside - we don't have addresses." The result: there's nothing to put into the GPS as a destination.
One restaurant we set out to find was <i>Le Près Gaillardou</i>. We went to the trouble before leaving our apartment of looking up its web site, and then trying to locate it on the French "Mappy" site. But its address was only <i>"Lieu dit Gaillardou, 24250 La Roque Gageac"</i>. <i>"Lieu dit Gaillardou"</i> just means "place called Gaillardou", which is pretty vague (and the restaurant didn't seem very concerned about this, since they didn't have detailed directions on their web site). We did find it, by the way, and had a nice meal there.
On one occasion, trying to get to <i>Les Jardins de l'Imaginaire</i>, we drove into the town of Terrasson. There we hit a massive traffic jam, and it took half an hour to get out the other side of the town. Having missed our tour of the gardens, we changed our plans, and set off for the <i>Chateau de Hautefort</i>. Upon setting the GPS for Hautefort, it told us to turn around and drive back through Terrasson. Fat chance - we weren't going back through that mess.
Consulting a map, we instead drove east a bit (the wrong direction), until we could go north to hook up to the A89. The GPS bitched every step of the way, saying <i>"Recalculating!"</i> each time we ignored one of its suggested turnarounds. Only as we approached within a kilometer or so of the A89 did it decide that the highway was now the better route to Hautefort. After visiting the <i>Chateau de Hautefort</i>, we drove straight home on the D704, ignoring all pleadings to branch to the east for a slightly shorter route on dubious roads. By then we had gotten very good at knowing when to ignore the GPS's advice.
At the end of our trip, we spent a night in Bordeaux, to be able to catch our very early flight the next morning. I knew I would have trouble entering the <i>All Seasons Bordeaux Aeroport hotel</i> into the GPS, because the address was shown as <i>"95 Avenue JF Kennedy"</i>. So just what do you type for the street name? Do you leave off the "<i>Avenue</i>"? I tried <i>"JF Kennedy"</i> both with and without the "<i>Avenue</i>", but in both cases got "Not found". I tried various other combinations of the JF with and without spaces.
Finally, I just entered "Kennedy", and that did it, so apparently you need to just get a partial match. If you enter too much, it kills the match. When the street with a name matching "Kennedy" was finally displayed by the GPS, it showed the full name to be <i>"Avenue du Président John Fitzgerald Kennedy"</i> - that's what I would have had to have typed to get an exact match. The route circled Bordeaux, and the GPS took us straight to the Hotel.
Like any tool, the GPS has its strengths and weaknesses, but overall we find it enormously useful in both the United States and Europe.
Oct 14th, 2011, 10:02 PM
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Hi justretired
We have used two different models of Garmin on our travels around UK and Europe.
Our original model was extremely complicated to use, but once we got the hang of it, there were many more options in 'settings' to select the type of road we wanted to travel on (toll, highway, most direct, etc).
Our newer Garmin is much simpler to use, but doesn't offer the same variety of options.
I think they have 'dumbed down' their GPSs - partly to keep the price down, and partly to make them simpler to use.
A GPS is a great asset, but I always have a detailed paper map to double check with! Di
We have used two different models of Garmin on our travels around UK and Europe.
Our original model was extremely complicated to use, but once we got the hang of it, there were many more options in 'settings' to select the type of road we wanted to travel on (toll, highway, most direct, etc).
Our newer Garmin is much simpler to use, but doesn't offer the same variety of options.
I think they have 'dumbed down' their GPSs - partly to keep the price down, and partly to make them simpler to use.
A GPS is a great asset, but I always have a detailed paper map to double check with! Di
Oct 15th, 2011, 02:48 AM
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We purchased the Garmin software for Italy/Greece and used it all through our recent trip from Rome up to southern Tuscany (the Val d'Orcia), through Umbria and then back to Rome. We thought it was invaluable and very accurate 90% of the time. We had an atlas and used our common sense and rarely made a wrong turn.
Oct 15th, 2011, 04:04 AM
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We talked in a cafe conversation in Northern Italy to fellow Americans traveling with GPS.
The couple with a Garmin had exactly the kind of troubles you describe. The couple with the TomTom did not. The inability to distinguish zones of limited access when planning routes poses real problems.
I love my Garmin at home, but it can send you through some strange and dangerous neighborhoods because it does not include sociological information.
The couple with a Garmin had exactly the kind of troubles you describe. The couple with the TomTom did not. The inability to distinguish zones of limited access when planning routes poses real problems.
I love my Garmin at home, but it can send you through some strange and dangerous neighborhoods because it does not include sociological information.
Oct 15th, 2011, 06:45 AM
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Our four year old Garmin unit, with an added France map card, is invaluable in out travels. However, I agree that what it considers a road, especially in rural areas of Provence, can be quite a shock! We do, however, thereby get to go places we never would by paper map alone!
Oct 15th, 2011, 11:11 AM
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Thanks for all the comments.
tower, why are you surprised that I use a GPS? I'm a retired engineer and computer scientist, after all.
Dukey1, I had trouble with the Points of Interest search - it went off into a long search, hourglass spinning, without result. I didn't write anything about this, because I figure I must have done something wrong. I don't want to mislead anyone before I figure out why it didn't work.
di2315, my two Garmin Nüvis (a 650 and a 1370T) both seemed to work about the same, and to have about the same features. That's one reason I quickly bought another Garmin when the old one failed - I figured I'd be able to use it easily. Of course, they have a lot of models.
ackislander, you provide another data point for the assertion that TomTom units are better in Europe.
mom83 and SemiMike, all in all, we've found it valuable, as long as we don't follow its advice blindly. There have been times when our turns came so quickly, and there were so many of them, that I'm almost sure we would have gotten lost without it. And it makes Margie's travel more pleasant, because some of the navigational responsibility is lifted from her shoulders.
On another thread, I commented on the effect of the GPS from another point of view - that of the people who live along those narrow country roads the GPS takes us on. As a result of all the tourists following GPS guidance, they must suddenly have all sorts of traffic coming down their previously empty roads. Before the GPS, the only people who drove there must have been the locals, and the occasional outsider who was hopelessly lost. Now, all of a sudden, all kinds of people can use their roads.
I wonder if they'll fight back by having the roads removed from the maps.
- Larry
tower, why are you surprised that I use a GPS? I'm a retired engineer and computer scientist, after all.
Dukey1, I had trouble with the Points of Interest search - it went off into a long search, hourglass spinning, without result. I didn't write anything about this, because I figure I must have done something wrong. I don't want to mislead anyone before I figure out why it didn't work.
di2315, my two Garmin Nüvis (a 650 and a 1370T) both seemed to work about the same, and to have about the same features. That's one reason I quickly bought another Garmin when the old one failed - I figured I'd be able to use it easily. Of course, they have a lot of models.
ackislander, you provide another data point for the assertion that TomTom units are better in Europe.
mom83 and SemiMike, all in all, we've found it valuable, as long as we don't follow its advice blindly. There have been times when our turns came so quickly, and there were so many of them, that I'm almost sure we would have gotten lost without it. And it makes Margie's travel more pleasant, because some of the navigational responsibility is lifted from her shoulders.
On another thread, I commented on the effect of the GPS from another point of view - that of the people who live along those narrow country roads the GPS takes us on. As a result of all the tourists following GPS guidance, they must suddenly have all sorts of traffic coming down their previously empty roads. Before the GPS, the only people who drove there must have been the locals, and the occasional outsider who was hopelessly lost. Now, all of a sudden, all kinds of people can use their roads.
I wonder if they'll fight back by having the roads removed from the maps.
- Larry
Oct 15th, 2011, 12:26 PM
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I sometimes use a GPS in the US - I have an ancient Garmin that I think I could still buy a Europe map for, but the thing has started having some reliability issues. Before a recent trip to Europe, where I would be driving in Slovenia for four days, I seriously considered buying a new Garmin and buying a Slovenia map for it, but it looked to be something like $200 or more for the new GPS plus the map, so I just decided to do without or just buy a nice map over there.
Turns out I didn't the GPS at all - in fact, all I needed was the free Slovenia tourist driving map I got an information kiosk. I did a good bit of backroad scenic detour driving, but the signs pointing to the next town on my route helped me almost never make a wrong turn; if I did, I lost 10 minutes total, at most, in four days of driving. And you know you'll spend at least 10 minutes fooling with your GPS. To be honest, I'm glad I didn't have a GPS, because I think it would have been a distraction and I might have wasted a lot of time with it.
I'm not bashing GPSes - after using one for years in the US I thought I'd never do without again. But as scary as my scenic drives in Slovenia sounded ahead of time, driving with a cheap map, plus with some printed Google Maps directions was all I needed to get by. Other drivers may be able to do the same.
Turns out I didn't the GPS at all - in fact, all I needed was the free Slovenia tourist driving map I got an information kiosk. I did a good bit of backroad scenic detour driving, but the signs pointing to the next town on my route helped me almost never make a wrong turn; if I did, I lost 10 minutes total, at most, in four days of driving. And you know you'll spend at least 10 minutes fooling with your GPS. To be honest, I'm glad I didn't have a GPS, because I think it would have been a distraction and I might have wasted a lot of time with it.
I'm not bashing GPSes - after using one for years in the US I thought I'd never do without again. But as scary as my scenic drives in Slovenia sounded ahead of time, driving with a cheap map, plus with some printed Google Maps directions was all I needed to get by. Other drivers may be able to do the same.
Oct 15th, 2011, 01:03 PM
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We have found that GPS is only good when you are lost. We use detailed Michelin maps, and only use the GPS if we can't find our hotel or somehow get hopelessly lost. It has been a life saver in that regard, but a good map is a must have as well.
Oct 15th, 2011, 02:36 PM
#11
Just to give the other side . . . the TomTom is just as crazed on occasion. In Modica, Sicily it directed me to turn right - down a 15 meter staircase. And it tried to lead us down a forest track when we were aiming for Villa Romana del Casale. In Turkey - with new updated maps - it led us on some bizarre route as we were approaching Cirali, that it had probably calculated as a kilometer closer.
GPS's are stunning tools but you still need a good map for an overview - and to help you when the GPS gets 'high'.
Ian
GPS's are stunning tools but you still need a good map for an overview - and to help you when the GPS gets 'high'.
Ian
Oct 15th, 2011, 05:43 PM
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It's funny; I will buy a new map at the drop of a hat, but resist getting a GPS. We have had car rentals in the US that came with a GPS, but I haven't been at all tempted to get one.
If one is using a GPS and not a paper map, are things like elevations, scenic overlooks, picnic areas, forts, etc. (all the goodies indicated on good paper maps and atlases) included? This is a serious question.
If one is using a GPS and not a paper map, are things like elevations, scenic overlooks, picnic areas, forts, etc. (all the goodies indicated on good paper maps and atlases) included? This is a serious question.
Oct 15th, 2011, 06:35 PM
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tuscanlifeedit, I've never seen an elevation shown on a car GPS. They often show major attractions, but are poor on more minor things such as scenic overlooks and picnic areas.
A friend once somehow entered the location of the Hotel Verbano in the Italian Lakes District into his GPS, which then took him into the town of Stresa. There he found a large lake between his car and the indicated destination. He and his wife drove around a bit, but kept encountering the lake.
After a while, his wife, looking over some paper maps and other trip information, solved the problem, saying, "I think our hotel is on an island". Indeed, the Hotel Verbano is on the Isola dei Pescatore, in Lago Maggiore. They needed to park the car and take a boat to the hotel.
We later stayed there ourselves - trip report at:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...s-district.cfm
- Larry
A friend once somehow entered the location of the Hotel Verbano in the Italian Lakes District into his GPS, which then took him into the town of Stresa. There he found a large lake between his car and the indicated destination. He and his wife drove around a bit, but kept encountering the lake.
After a while, his wife, looking over some paper maps and other trip information, solved the problem, saying, "I think our hotel is on an island". Indeed, the Hotel Verbano is on the Isola dei Pescatore, in Lago Maggiore. They needed to park the car and take a boat to the hotel.
We later stayed there ourselves - trip report at:
http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...s-district.cfm
- Larry
Oct 15th, 2011, 07:31 PM
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<i>tower, why are you surprised that I use a GPS? I'm a retired engineer and computer scientist, after all.</i>
Preciseley...I would have thought you were a map fan. I was with the RAND contingent at Lincoln Labs during the early days of SAGE as a computer systems analyst geek.....for the past 50 years I have driven each and every country in continental Europe, excepting the former SSR and current Russia. Maps work out very well for me. You just struck me as someone who would prefer a nice Michelin detailed map instead of screwing around with a a piece of bug-ridden hardware.
No hard feelings...was not meant to be so. Maybe you'll get back to maps when you're an octogenarian like me.
stu
Preciseley...I would have thought you were a map fan. I was with the RAND contingent at Lincoln Labs during the early days of SAGE as a computer systems analyst geek.....for the past 50 years I have driven each and every country in continental Europe, excepting the former SSR and current Russia. Maps work out very well for me. You just struck me as someone who would prefer a nice Michelin detailed map instead of screwing around with a a piece of bug-ridden hardware.
No hard feelings...was not meant to be so. Maybe you'll get back to maps when you're an octogenarian like me.
stu
Oct 16th, 2011, 06:02 AM
#15
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Why do people seem to think it's a question of one or the other when it comes to maps and GPS? The second complements the first.
>>>If one is using a GPS and not a paper map, are things like elevations, scenic overlooks, picnic areas, forts, etc. (all the goodies indicated on good paper maps and atlases) included? This is a serious question.<<<
Maybe. For my TomToms I can download literally thousands of Points Of Interest... from nude beaches in the south of France to hotels in the Accor chain to Gothic cathedrals to aires on French autoroutes, suggested scenic itineraries and more. Chances are you'll find things of interest to you.
Elevation? Again, maybe. Depends on the model. Some use map data for altitude, some air pressure, others compare several satellite signals to work it out.
The higher end model of my 2 TomToms has other features I find useful as well... it allows me to use my cell phone hands free,
can warn me of traffic problems ahead, plays MP3s through my car radio and works as a digital photo viewer... I can slide in a card from my camera and review the photos in a larger format than my camera's LCD allows. Handy to do at a lunch or rest stop so I don't need to drag out the netbook.
I think that much of the bad you hear about these things is because the majority of people don't know how to use them properly. There are all kinds of functions and options and you'll never know how to use them without a bit of effort.
I've driven thousands of miles in Europe with paper maps and
into the millions of miles in North America. I love maps and have shelves and atlases full of them... many dating back to my first trip to Europe in the early 1970s. But a TomTom is now in each of our cars wherever we go... along with a road atlas.
;^)
>>>If one is using a GPS and not a paper map, are things like elevations, scenic overlooks, picnic areas, forts, etc. (all the goodies indicated on good paper maps and atlases) included? This is a serious question.<<<
Maybe. For my TomToms I can download literally thousands of Points Of Interest... from nude beaches in the south of France to hotels in the Accor chain to Gothic cathedrals to aires on French autoroutes, suggested scenic itineraries and more. Chances are you'll find things of interest to you.
Elevation? Again, maybe. Depends on the model. Some use map data for altitude, some air pressure, others compare several satellite signals to work it out.
The higher end model of my 2 TomToms has other features I find useful as well... it allows me to use my cell phone hands free,
can warn me of traffic problems ahead, plays MP3s through my car radio and works as a digital photo viewer... I can slide in a card from my camera and review the photos in a larger format than my camera's LCD allows. Handy to do at a lunch or rest stop so I don't need to drag out the netbook.
I think that much of the bad you hear about these things is because the majority of people don't know how to use them properly. There are all kinds of functions and options and you'll never know how to use them without a bit of effort.
I've driven thousands of miles in Europe with paper maps and
into the millions of miles in North America. I love maps and have shelves and atlases full of them... many dating back to my first trip to Europe in the early 1970s. But a TomTom is now in each of our cars wherever we go... along with a road atlas.
;^)
Oct 16th, 2011, 08:52 AM
#16
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We've been very pleased with our four or five-year-old Navigon in France. It's been pretty much flawless, although there are times we question it, only to come out where we wanted to.
This one uses a computer memory card, and I've bought them online for about $40.
For us, GPS is freeing, allowing wanders off the track but security in knowing you'll be able to find the way home. It's a lot easier than fumbling with paper maps.
This one uses a computer memory card, and I've bought them online for about $40.
For us, GPS is freeing, allowing wanders off the track but security in knowing you'll be able to find the way home. It's a lot easier than fumbling with paper maps.
Oct 16th, 2011, 09:47 AM
#17
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I have driven in the States, Wales, England, Belgium, Germany and The Netherlands with my GPS. I actually find it more irritating to use in the States, but I have not updated the USA maps. I always supplement navigation with a paper map!
Here is an excerpt from a trip report last year in Wales and England:
"A couple of years ago I bought a Garmin nuvi 275T (T for Traffic). I purchased it specifically because it came with North America and Europe maps. I have used it in the USA, Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands and the UK. The unit is nicknamed “Sheila” because of the Aussie female voice we use.
Before this trip, I purchased map updates (EUNT 2011.10 and NA NT 2011.10). The new maps worked pretty well with a few of exceptions. Here is a list of some of the issues I encountered in the UK (just to be clear, these are more peculiarities for Sheila than of the UK):
+ It is good to know where you want to go. DW is pretty sorted out, but she did not have a good address for everything. Sheila and I had to improvise then.
+ At the Castlerigg Stone Circle, she reported we were “offroad” while we were still in the little town. Of course, in her defense, in just a few yards, the road becomes a narrow track barely wide enough to pass oncoming vehicles at a crawl.
+ Sheila’s speed limits were not always accurate. While this may not seem to be a big deal, it causes the wrong routes to be calculated as “fastest.” In the US, Sheila will pick a back road over the interstate because she thinks it will be faster when actually, with the lower speeds limits, it will take longer. I will have to try it with the new North America map when I get back.
+ I have to veto Sheila’s proposals sometimes. When we left Conwy, she proposed to go through Liverpool on the way to Carlisle. Fearing the morning rush hour traffic, I ignored her and bypassed Liverpool on the M road to the east. Sheila never shows any hurt over these slights; her response is always a dispassionate “Recalculating…”.
+ A couple of times, I asked her to add a via point and she responded that she was unable to calculate a new route. Immediately following this announcement, she goes into map mode, that is, the route that you were following initially is wiped out. This behavior is less than ideal. She should buffer the original route and then restore it if a new course cannot be plotted.
+ I had told Sheila to tell me about traffic cams. She chimed what seemed like hundreds of times.
Despite her imperfections, I can’t live without her. We don’t always agree, but if I get tired of listening to her, I just remember she has a mute button."
Here is an excerpt from a trip report last year in Wales and England:
"A couple of years ago I bought a Garmin nuvi 275T (T for Traffic). I purchased it specifically because it came with North America and Europe maps. I have used it in the USA, Germany, Belgium, The Netherlands and the UK. The unit is nicknamed “Sheila” because of the Aussie female voice we use.
Before this trip, I purchased map updates (EUNT 2011.10 and NA NT 2011.10). The new maps worked pretty well with a few of exceptions. Here is a list of some of the issues I encountered in the UK (just to be clear, these are more peculiarities for Sheila than of the UK):
+ It is good to know where you want to go. DW is pretty sorted out, but she did not have a good address for everything. Sheila and I had to improvise then.
+ At the Castlerigg Stone Circle, she reported we were “offroad” while we were still in the little town. Of course, in her defense, in just a few yards, the road becomes a narrow track barely wide enough to pass oncoming vehicles at a crawl.
+ Sheila’s speed limits were not always accurate. While this may not seem to be a big deal, it causes the wrong routes to be calculated as “fastest.” In the US, Sheila will pick a back road over the interstate because she thinks it will be faster when actually, with the lower speeds limits, it will take longer. I will have to try it with the new North America map when I get back.
+ I have to veto Sheila’s proposals sometimes. When we left Conwy, she proposed to go through Liverpool on the way to Carlisle. Fearing the morning rush hour traffic, I ignored her and bypassed Liverpool on the M road to the east. Sheila never shows any hurt over these slights; her response is always a dispassionate “Recalculating…”.
+ A couple of times, I asked her to add a via point and she responded that she was unable to calculate a new route. Immediately following this announcement, she goes into map mode, that is, the route that you were following initially is wiped out. This behavior is less than ideal. She should buffer the original route and then restore it if a new course cannot be plotted.
+ I had told Sheila to tell me about traffic cams. She chimed what seemed like hundreds of times.
Despite her imperfections, I can’t live without her. We don’t always agree, but if I get tired of listening to her, I just remember she has a mute button."
Oct 16th, 2011, 12:18 PM
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Thanks for all the replies.
Hi, tower. Margie's more comfortable with me doing the driving, and besides, I can drive a standard shift, so we can save a bit of money on the car rental and fuel. So if we use standard maps, the burden of navigation falls on her. And she feels it acutely - if she gets us lost, it seems to bother her more than it bothers me.
With the GPS, there's someone else (someTHING else?) to blame. She still follows along, and gives me good advice as to when to ignore the GPS.
VolCrew, "Sheila" adds another name to my collection, and of course your reason for choosing that name is logical. As I explained in my blog entry, the voice we listen to is that of Jill Jacobsen - see:
http://ljkrakauer.com/LJK/00s/recalculating.htm
So our GPS has a first and a last name.
- Larry
Hi, tower. Margie's more comfortable with me doing the driving, and besides, I can drive a standard shift, so we can save a bit of money on the car rental and fuel. So if we use standard maps, the burden of navigation falls on her. And she feels it acutely - if she gets us lost, it seems to bother her more than it bothers me.
With the GPS, there's someone else (someTHING else?) to blame. She still follows along, and gives me good advice as to when to ignore the GPS.
VolCrew, "Sheila" adds another name to my collection, and of course your reason for choosing that name is logical. As I explained in my blog entry, the voice we listen to is that of Jill Jacobsen - see:
http://ljkrakauer.com/LJK/00s/recalculating.htm
So our GPS has a first and a last name.
- Larry
