BB86

My fiance and I are planning on going to Europe for the first time on our honeymoon in the beginning of June. We need advice on methods of travel, places to stay, and sites to see and was hoping to get some feedback. We are tenatively planning the following:

Flying from US to Amsterdam, Netherlands - 2 nights
Amsterdam - Brussels, Belgium - 2 nights
Brussel's, Belgium - Paris, France - 2 nights
Paris, France - Venice, Italy - 2 nights
Venice, Italy - Florence, Italy - 2 nights
Florence, Italy - Rome, Italy - 2 nights

Please let me know if you would recommend shortening/extending any of the nights and spend more time elsewhere or if we should check out other cities-- We are really looking to see the highlights (Anne Frank House, Breweries in Belgium, Eifel Tower, Museums, Vatican, etc.), experience the culture, and have fun. We do not want to stay in a hostel, and would prefer hotels or rental properties-- we will take recommendations, as well as recommendations on the fastest, cost efficient methods of transportation.

Thanks!

artsnletters

Taking into account travel time and in the case of your first day arrival time + jet lag, you have at best a day and a half in each place. That may be enough for Brussels, but nowhere near enough for the other stops on your itinerary. Unless you take a night train, it will take you a day to get from Paris to Venice, or you can fly and it will take you half a day by the time you get to and from the airport, check in, etc. Then there will be packing, unpacking, getting to and from the train station and riding the train, getting oriented, and so forth - I wouldn't recommend it to footloose kids, let alone for what is supposed to be a romantic interlude before the realities of life set in.

With 12 nights, that would be a maximum of three places. Fly into the first one and home from the last (look at "multi-city" tickets on airline and search sites, not two one-way tickets). Amsterdam, Brussels, and Paris would be a good combo. Paris, Venice and Rome a more challenging match due to transportation time and the many, many charms of these cities, especially Paris and Rome. Actually, Paris and Rome would be a great mix for your 12 nights, and probably what I would pick if it were my honeymoon trip.

Trim back considerably and you'll have a much better trip.

PalenQ

as well as recommendations on the fastest, cost efficient methods of transportation.>

Well since you are going to mainly big cities where cars are more and more a liability take the train and also renting a car in one country and returning it in another can result in steep drop-off charges. Private vehicles are banned from many city centres and parking can be hard to find and expensive to boot - in Amsterdam about $30 a day for a perhaps remote from your hotel parking garage - many city centre hotels do not offer parking or if do charge a lot for it.

Trains are modern and fast - going up to nearly 200 mph with very frequent departures everywhere. Forget any parallel to limping along Amtrak - that is the dark ages of train travel compared to Europe's spiffy state-of-the-art bullet trains.

Fly into Amsterdam and out of Rome maybe - so-called Open Jaw tickets so you do not have to backtrack to your original country.

Many folks would advise you to substitute Bruges, the dreamiest city IME in all of Belgium for a Brussels that many are non-plussed with - a modern busy city whereas Bruges is the town you have been dreaming of perhaps when thinking of old world Europe.

For lots of great info on trains check out these IMO fantastic sites: www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com. By booking train tickets well ahead of time you can save a lot of money - for example trenitalia.com and www.voyages-sncf.com can be used for great fares Paris to Italy and within Italy itself. www.thalys.com for Amsterdam to Brussels and Brussels to Paris and Bruges to Paris.

janisj

Thus is a horrible plan - sorry but it is. It also doesn't make sense the way you've spelled it out. What you really have is:

Flying from US to Amsterdam 1 night
Amsterdam 1 night . . . Which nets you half a jet lagged day to see Amsterdam
Brussels 2 nights = 1.5 days
Paris 2 nights = 1.5 days
Venice 2 nights = One full day
Florence 2 nights = 1.5 days
Rome 2 nights = 1.5 days

Some other notes: You won't have time enough n any city to rent an apartment. Fastest is seldom the most cost efficient travel. You will barely have time to settle in to your hotels let alone 'experience the cultures'.

Back to the drawing board w/ this one.

Sarastro

This itinerary is seriously unrealistic and as artsnletters points out, virtually ignores the time required to travel from location to location. 6 cities in 12 days, less actually, leaves you little time for anything but traveling from place to place.

Cut this to a maximum of 3 cites and if you really must go from Paris to Italy, fly. Paris to Venice alone is from 11 to 16 hours on a train.

BigRuss

Your plan sucks - see Janis's rationale.

This won't happen in two nights per city in countries (and regions of a country) that are culturally different: "experience the culture."

Every place you mention has a lot of information regarding top sights and places to stay.

You won't be able to rent flats for two nights.

PalenQ

Can't you say take a bit longer trip for the trip of a lifetime - a honeymoon - either that or I agree that, even for the intrepid quick travler myself, was too hurried.

either drop Amsterdam and Brussels or Italy IMO.

ellenem

If you plot this as a day by day (night by night) itinerary, you will see that you will be traveling every other day.

Day 1: Fly from US
Day 2: arrive Amsterdam ( possible jet lag)
Day 3: Amsterdam
Day 4: travel to Brussels
Day 5: Brussels
Day 6: travel to Paris
Day 7: Paris
Day 8: travel to Venice
Day 9: Venice
Day 10: travel to Florence
Day 11: Florence
Day 12: travel to Rome
Day 13: Rome
Day 14: fly to US

Is this the pace you want for your honeymoon? If not, adjust your itinerary to include some longer stays. Decide which three or four places are your priorities. Delete locations you added if you thought, "Well, since we're nearby, we could add this."

Keep in mind: even the simplest connection between cities, for example, a 90-minute train ride between Florence and Rome, will take a few hours more when you add in checking in and out of hotels, arriving and waiting at train stations, and so forth.

BigRuss

Ok, that's it. If PalQ says it's too hurried, you're completely off your nut.

PalQ loves trains and has no problem with short stays and overnighting on the rails to both save hotel costs and get to the next destination with additional time to tour around. The concession he makes above says it all.

BB86

Thank-you everyone for your advice-- I guess I am quite ambitious! We do have a total of 16 days, so travel days will need to be factored in-- Do you have a recommendation as to what should be cut based on that itinerary?

ellenem

As you can see, 16 days would mean you could already add a day each to two of your chosen cities. Even so, I would still reduce the number of locations.

Some people have offered suggestions of what to drop, but what you really need to do is list the places you really want to see--your top choices--and figure how many days it will take to see them. Then set your itinerary. Your choices should be based on your interests, not someone else's idea of must-sees.

Then verify that your top choices are open on the day you will be there and the opening hours. For example, in Italy many museums are closed on Mondays, some museums are only open in the morning, and many churches close for a few hours at midday.

In general, to maintain an easy pace with room to wander and relax, I plan for one place of interest in the morning and one in the afternoon. If other sights fit around that as I go, That's a bonus.

For example, traveling in Italy, I enjoy visiting churches to see the art in them. It is usually very quick to visit a church, so it is easy to add that to a morning's activity if I will be nearby. Similar if you just want a photo op outside a place . . .

StCirq

And do you really have 16 days on the ground? Or are you counting the first and last travel days (over and back) as part of those 16? If it's the latter, they don't count.

danlev

With 16 days, and assuming you are locked into flying into AMS and departing FCO (Rome), I would suggest:
3 days Amsterdam (remember jetlag)
2 days Brussels (with day trip to Bruges, 1 hour away)
4 days Paris (via Thalys, very quick)
3 days Venice (via Thello night train - very romantic)
4 days Rome

(Or, cut Brussels and add one day each to Rome and somewhere else.)

This would make a lovely trip and you would cover a lot of ground. Buying fares early on trains will save money. I would go first class on the Thello - remember you're not paying for a hotel that night - it is worth it and not too expensive anyway.

janisj

OK -- what are your dates? You now say 16 days - but that would mean an 18 day trip . . . so just <i>how many</i> days do you actually have?

RonZ

I would take the overnight train from Paris to Venice and stay for two nights before going on to Rome.

PalenQ

www.thello.com for overnight Paris to Venice booking - as low as 59 euros or so for a couchette - multi-person compartment - private compartments much much more.

danlev

PalenQ, I stand corrected. I recently took a night train from Innsbruck to Milan, and first class was only 200 euros or so, so I assumed Paris-Venice would be similar. I was wrong, though - I just checked and private compartment with one bed is 550 euros total for the two passengers. Yikes.

PalenQ

And these Thello trains may even be scrapped - the Florence and Rome trains recently were and only the Paris to Venice one remains but for how long - so by next June that may or may not be an option.

PalenQ

private compartment with one bed is 550 euros total for the two passengers. Yikes.>

Yikes - I did not dream it was that much - flying would obviously be much cheaper even if taking in the saving money on a hotel night angle.

danlev

PalenQ - I just had another thought. They could also book a 2-bed cabin for 360 euros, which is not as crazy a price. So that's 180 per person, and figure that 100 is for the lodging and 80 for the fare... not so bad. Of course, not as posh as the fancy cabin, but that's OK. Assuming Paris-Venice Thello still exists of course!