PalQ

Nope not the TGV whose 186 mph top pace seems like a snail to Germany's ICE which tops out at a few km/hr faster on the new Koln-Frankfurt high-speed line. But both of these tortoise-like 'bullet' trains will be eclipsed sometime in the future by Spain's new AVE-like train between Madrid and Barcelona - where though high-speed tracks are done two major problems prevent top speed running at about 200 mph (regular service with passengers - TGV France still holds speed record i think at 521/km an hour on tests near Chartres, France without passengers) - first Spanish problem is that soil subsiding around the new tracks has prevented true high-speed running and these trains use a Global Positioning System rather than the antique network of red and green lights to control train spacing and the GPS system just isn't working. But soon Spain, where it was not long ago said "the pain in Spain is mainly on the train" will have Europe's fastest train! No siesta here.

grandmere

Very interesting, PalQ.

flanneruk

You know, when George Stephenson built the world's first real passenger railway in 1826 from Liverpool to Manchester, construction was dogged by soil subsidence.

But he was spending shareholders' money. So he made bloody sure the problem was solved before he wasted any more money laying track.

The Spanish government, OTOH, is spending my money (not even its own taxpayers') on this pissing contest with the other subsidy junkies north of the Pyrenees. So it squanders it without even checking the engineering first.

Which is why Stephenson's invention gave the world affluence through economic growth. While not one single human benefit can be attributed to the Eurozone governments' obsession with playing trains.

aggiemom

Thanks for the tidbit, PalQ. I was on the ICE last month (including Koln to Frankfurt) and had wondered just how fast we were going. I really enjoyed the ride, by the way.

PalQ

The world's fastest train is in Shanghai - the airport link but top speed is reached only briefing before braking is required.

AnthonyGA

If the antique network of lights is so bad, why is it the GPS system that is failing?

Actual lights have never been used for high-speed lines in France, anyway, as they don't provide enough warning. The signals are duplicated directly in the cab of the train. Many trains operating at lower speeds today also use a similar in-cab signalling system.

France has held the speed record for conventional trains on rails since about 1955 (205 mph). The current record is over 300 mph, but this speed is not used on any commercial service, in part because French railmen are very conservative for safety reasons, and in part because it costs more than it is worth (the energy requirements of a train increase much more rapidly than its speed, and it's not cost-effective to run trains at 300 mph on routes within France today--200 mph is already plenty).

PalQ

Apparently the GPS system will allow closer spacing of bullet trains than the TGV system - at least that's what my UK train magazine sez - don't know why but it's better - if and when it works - the lack of a backup has prevented true high speed along with the soil erosion problem. The Spanish train is a TGV train - the line is built to standard gauge used throughout Europe so when the Pyrenees tunnel and high-speed line to Barcelona from Montpelier is finished can run thru trains Paris-Barcelona-Madrid-Seville, though high-speed unlikely to be competitive over such long distances.

Bitter

So the Eurostar isn't even in the top 4 or 5? Doesn't it run at about 160 mph on the continent?
I could look this up, but if one of you could tell me how long is the trip (timewise) b/t Koln and Frankfurt on that train? Thanks.

Intrepid1

Flanner...gee, and we thought the Brits had actually conquered the dreaded Armada and the Spanish are still getting treasure out of you....amazing!

moschops

flanneruk - put your toys back in your pram.

If we had more gov committment here in the UK we'd benefit from EU funds and maybe have a transport system that worked

PalQ

Eurostar is actually a TGV train - in fact some surplus Eurostar cars are used in France on TGV lines - it goes up to 186 mph i believe or there about on the high-speed TGV line to Paris in France.
Koln-Frankfurt takes one hour - i rode last year and you see nothing - tunnels and wind screens all along - nothing like the classic old line thru the Rhine Gorge, but much faster of course.
The Italian Eurostar is also a high-speed train but not quite as fast as TGV - Fiat actually trademarked the name Eurostar which is why the name is used both by Channel trains and in Italy though they have no common ownership.
In places where it's not economically feasible to build new rights-of-way like TGV and AVE in Spain have tilting trains have cut down speeds as they can negotiate curves at higher speeds. Unlike Britain's national embarrasment with the APT (Advance Passenger Train) which only ran a few disastrous trials years ago, the Italian-built tilting trains called Pendolinos that seem to dominate this market are a success. (Cisalpino is one that links Italy and Switzerland) In Britain Virgin recently launched them on the newly revamped West Coast line London-Midlands-Glasgow - the first day of service was again an embarrasment as the first train, with press aboard, had to be hauled into its destination by a relief engine after there was some kind of failure. The similar Spanish launch of the new high-speed line with press aboard was also a disaster as the ride was noticeably unstable and speeds had to be cut.
UK will enter the true high-speed service with completion in 2007 of the Channel Tunnel link to St Pancras in London - the long several-mile tunnel through London from Stratford is complete and things seem to be on time. Paris-London in about two hours! Plans are afoot to run London-amsterdam through Eurostars and possibly London-Koln. Originally eurostar had amitious plans for North of England-Paris/Brussels trains but these were scrapped as were Eurostar night trains to various European locales - these were sitting forlornly last i knew on some siding - maybe at North Pole on Paddington line but may have been sold. Eurostar does run a weekly ski service London-French Alps in winter and a once a week i think London-Avignon summer train and daily London-Disneyland Paris train. The new terminus in London at St. Pancras will provide better connections for north of London passengers and services will still limp into Waterloo as now. Stratford in suburban London will also be a major hub.

rkkwan

The Eurostar night train sets have been sold to VIA of Canada for their Windsor-Toronto-Montreal-Quebec corridor service.

PalQ

The Channel High-Speed Rail Link is Britain's first mainline rail line since something like 1850!

PalQ

High-speed trains are coming to Switzerland as well and you'll see nothing of scenic Switzerland as from border to border they will largely be in tunnels! Two very long tunnels are currently being constructed on the two major north-south lines to Italy - the Lotschberg route, which just punched thru a few months ago - from Frutigen to Brig - emerging for a kilometer before pluning into the Simplon Tunnel. Fast but i'd rather be taking the older slower lines where you see the Alps!

aggiemom

Bitter - As I recall, the ride on ICE from Koln to Frankfurt was about an hour. The website seems to vary from an hour to two hours. All I know is it went by very quickly. Beautiful trains in Germany overall.

Neil_Oz

We rode the Shanghai maglev train, which I believe was built by a German consortium, last year, and the speedo briefly touched 432 km/hr (268 mph) during the 31-km run, which takes 7-odd minutes. It connects Pudong International Airport with the Long Yang metro station, which is situated nowhere in particular, so at this stage is largely novelty/trial value.

I read that the Chinese government is thinking of building a maglev track between Shanghai and Beijing, about 1400 km, but I'm not sure how seriously that should be taken.

PalQ

Probably more serious than the British government building a similar line that was recently proposed between London, Oxford, Manchester, York and Scotland - a zigzagging line. the recent rehab of the classic West Coast line was hugely costly just to basically redo the signalization - some of Flanneruk's tax pounds went into that for sure and they'll get less out of it than Spain does their new line.

metlc

When I took the Eurostar from Waterloo to Paris, it didn't seem like it made it up to speed anywhere near 186 mph.. 110 mph seemed more like it.

I recently read a piece on the Web claiming that the current Manchester-London route takes longer now than it did in the steam-engine era.

PalQ

And the average speed of traffic in London is the same as it was in the horse-and-buggy days. Eurostar does go 186 mph - your train must have been late. You can calculate the speed of a train by looking at km markers along the tracks - paced at 1/10th of a km, with your watch then figure out the speed. The Eurostar definitely ordinarily approaches 186 mph. The Eurostar trains also flip flop sides in the Chunnel - as trains in UK and France travel on opposite sides of the tracks the tunnel tracks twist under each other - or at least one does. Anyway when emerging from Chunnel you're on the other side of the tracks.

rkkwan

Well, the HSTs (pulled/pushed by Class 43 locos) used by various UK train operators are still the fastest diesel trains in the world (125mph). And still working hard after like 30 years. That's a pretty decent achievement.