Mark

Twenty or thirty years ago, Western Europe had its own identity. Today, thanks to immigration and television, its really declining. The worst problems stem from the immigrants of Africa and Eastern Europe. Sadly, Europeans are losing their original heritage just like the US. I knew London and Paris had slums, but I didn't realize they were so many other run down crime ridden small towns. Another problem is the sterile architecture. The old buildings that were perhaps Europe's main draw are now outnumbered by unfinished cement boxes. As for the crime, it's getting much worse. Yes, here in America, the crimes are much worse with our ridiculous weapons laws. However the chances are that visitors won't be involved in a crime, although of course a few are. Visitors to Rome, Paris and Madrid are constantly targetted by thieves. Visit the Paris Metro a few times and you'll be hassled. Coutless other disappointment. Switzerland must be the graffiti capital of the world. Chain pubs thriving in Ireland. England, could you have any more bleak decaying cities? Try not falling over the passed out heroin addicts in Glasgow. Amsterdam quickly becoming a cesspool.
The Europeans on this board often complain about America and take pride in the fact that many people enjoy visiting European countries. Well unless you helped build the Colliseum or Stonehedge, your continent's popularity really has nothing to do with you. Basically, you're no different than anyone else. And the things you used to criticize, fast food and chain stores, are being completely embraced in your country. I guess what I'm saying is, Europe just isn't all that different from other places anymore. And the decline is spiralling quickly.

xxx

How did we guess the American contingency would post this, always happens when anyone dares to critise America in another post,.......yawn

Mark

You are correct xxx, I'm just replying to what others have said. Nothing really wrong with that.

Sjoerd

Please name me one city or country which is still "what it used to be". Thanks.

kate

Well, Mark, whether it suits your travel needs or not, Europe is not a Museum designed for tourism. It is a living, working, developing continent that suffers the same problems and benefits as any other part of the "first world".

Everywhere is now part of the shrinking globe, where individual cultures and communities are increasingly affected by outside influences. And why should it be a thing to complain about?

anon2

You would do yourself good by working with the present situation instead of foolishly wishing for a time period gone by. You sound like Jerry Falwell who seems to think that America can go back to some idealized circa 1950. You can only go forward.

Lock your door - turn off your tv and computer - and invent your own truths...

xxx

What you're going on about is reality so just accept it instead of obsessing about it.

Another thing I notice is that aside from the lack of architecture you're complaining aboutis that you are putting much of the blame on immigrants for the decline. I can't agree 100% with you on that.

Li Hau

Try Asia!!!!

RnR

... and yawn, neither am I! Probably too much TV. And some areas of my body have migrated as well. I'm kinda losing some of my hair to age too. My architecture isn't streile, I'm very pleased to say, but it's probably just a matter of time. Gosh, Europe looks pretty good to me, now that you mention it.

Ann

Mark's not exactly a "the glass is half-full" kind of guy, is he? More like the glass may have some water in it, but it doesn't taste like it used to, and most likely someone is going to come along and steal it or knock it over, anyway, so why should I even bother with it?

Glad I don't live in your house.

Good, stay home from Europe. More room for the rest of us.

pierre

I really think it's wrong to blame this so-called decline on immigration. Whoever said Europe isn't a museum designed for tourists is right. It's a place where people work and live and they have to cope with those demands and if that means affordable housing the shape of concrete boxes well then so be it. There is still beautiful architecture and great food etc.

Red

Is anything as it used to be? Adapt or die.

Marge

I don't know where the poster gets the idea that "concrete boxes" are new -- they've been building them for the last 50 years or so. In fact, the heyday of the boxes was really the 50's & 60's. Things have been much better recently (at least in Britain), with many new buildings in brick, or with interesting facades -- thanks to the rise of postmodernism. The buildings may not be great masterpieces, but they're reasonably pleasant -- unlike the dreary "modernist" boxes. Modernism is a style that needs a genius to make it look good.

Tony Hughes

Mark,

Have you ever been to a) Celebration, Florida or b) Planet Earth?

Nope

You are right, Europe didn´t get stuck to 1950´s. And there would not be very much sense in building a new Stunehenge or Colosseum. After all, you cannot live on Colosseum.

Obviously you have not travelled in Europe for a longer time. If you had, you would know that every European country still has its very own, very distinctive culture (national cultural activities are encouraged and even financed by EU). Immigrants cannot change that, because people don´t adapt immigrant cultures. OK, it is nice to have different kinds of food for a change, but that´s about it.

nope

One more thing: you say that "Western Europe had its own identity". That is not true. There was no such thing, all were countries, and neighbouring country had a different identity. Identities were national, only now with EU some kind of Western European identity is developing.

Ian G

Nothing is what is used to be and I finally have found something I can't blame my parents for.

wayto

Mark,good for writing what alot of people think but would not dare to express especially on this Fodors Forum.On the other hand,some of them have had no experience of the Europe years ago-are we of the Travel in Europe on $5 to ? a day generation? I lived in Spain 34 years ago and have visited Europe many times since.I remember the outrage of my European friends at the treatment of blacks,especially during the riots in 60's, our violence-JFK and MLK deaths,the death penalty,Vietnam war,drug problems etc.Back then I was amused by their comments-they were living under Franco!Their biggest problem was getting back the rock from the British!
Spain has changed drastically.They now have problems with bombs,rampant pick pocketting,strikes, drugs,grafitti,their government members murdered, Basques,Catalans, Moors as they call them-illegal immigrants from Africa, gypsies.The only American base left is in Ronda!
Now my friends don't bash us too much .They are in a daze as to what is happening in their country.
In the past 5 years I have seen Paris and Madrid catch up with problems we have been dealing with for ages and it is a reality check for them.I can only see it getting worse since people can now moove about freely from so many European countries.The Euro may indeed strengthen their economy but I don't think they have thought through what indeed lays in store for them.My children will never experience the carefree travel I had in Europe in the sixties.If this is progress,it is indeed sad.

Mark

Do you know what I find ironic. Whenever there is a terrible crime, Europeans always say, these things only happen in America.
I'm hearing this a lot lately.

Carmenr

I agree with Mark and Way to go. I lived in Paris in 1969-1970 as a student. I did not return till this past April for 1 week. I used Europe on $5.00 a day but needed to stay under that on my student travel budget ($1000 for 9 months) I was there when the American astronauts had a parade on the Champs Elysees honoring their moon walk. French television had a black out, a common occurrence when Americans did something out of the ordinary and the powers that be could not handle it.

I half dreaded going back this past spring but was pleasantly surprised to find the monuments and buildings much cleaner, thanks to sand-blasting, and the Parisians much nicer than I remembered them. Of course I viewed it today as an older and wiser person.

Europe isn't what it used to be and I for one am glad of it! Carmen