The websites for the spanish rail system and the eurail pass are both a little cryptic I think, so I have the following questions:
1) If you buy the spain/portugal railpass, is that valid for overnight trips (in particular Barcelona-Granada)
2) Similarly, is Madrid-Lisbon covered or not?
3) What class (1st or 2nd) do you get with such a pass? Do you have to pay extra for each reservation?
4) Reading through some posts, it seems like the best idea is to stop at the agency in the Madrid airport and buy everything right there and then. Do people agree?

5) On a similar note, how many days would people recommend for Lisbon?

Thx.

The Spain and Portugal railpass is valid for such overnight trips as Barcelona to Granada and Madrid to Lisbon, so long as you pay a supplement for the berth. I think it is valid for whichever class you say. You pay extra for each reservation, a small charge for a seat and a larger one for a berth. Until 15 December the best idea is to stop at the agency in the Madrid airport and buy everything right there and then. For travel between 15 December and January you should book a month ahead of travel. For international tickets, berths and seats Trainseurope are ten percent cheaper than German Rail UK or Ffestiniog Travel. For domestic Italian trains they are cheaper again. German Rail UK are cheaper than Trainseurope or Ffestiniog Travel for domestic trains within Germany and may be competitive with them for international trips with a big proportion of miles in Germany.

Euraide in Florida, E-mail [email protected]. Phone 1 941-480-1555. http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homep...e/homepage.htm, fax 1 941-480-1522

Trainseurope Ltd, of Cambridgeshire and London, E-mail [email protected]. Phone 00 44 900 195 0101 http://www.trainseurope.co.uk/ -

German Rail UK of Surbiton: E-mail : [email protected] Phone : 00 44 870 243 53 63 then 6. www.deutsche-bahn.co.uk/ Fax : 00 44 208 339 4700.

Ffestiniog Travel of Wales, E-mail [email protected], phone 00 44 176 651 2400 site http://www.festtravel.co.uk,

Inside France (Canterbury). E-mail [email protected]/. Or booking form on site www.rail-canterbury.co.uk/. Phone 0044 1227 450088.

Railwise Ltd. E-mail: [email protected]/. 3rd Floor, 26 Gray's Inn Road London WC1X 8HR Phone 0044 207-242-1490. Fax: 0044 207-242-1518. Site http://railwise.com/

RailEurope take a thirty percent markup on standard prices.

I am afraid I cannot answer as to Lisbon.

Ben Haines, London
[email protected]

Mr.Haines gives his usual excellent advice although I have to disagree somewhat as to his assertion that RailEurope takes a "30% mark-up" which is not always the case.

There have been times when RailEurope's basic ticket prices were actually the same or even cheaper than those offered by others so it might be good to comparison shop.

The prices of passes is SET by the railroads involved and what you'll pay "extra" for are things such as shipping and handling fees; RailEurope routinely charges $15 per order, not per pass, as I recall; some agencies do not charge S+H fees at all.

Seat reservation mark-ups by RailEurope are a very high percentage when compared to the price of a seat reservation purchased in Europe.

You really owe it to yourself to input your proposed itinerary at www.railpass.com or www.railsaver.com to determine if a pass will actually save you <b>money</b>(having one vs buying tickets at windows/machines <b>always</b>saves time.

I, too, have seen some point-to-point rail ticket prices available at www.raileurope.com for little over &quot;par&quot; (and in some rare cases, under) - - before &quot;shipping and handling&quot;. Thorough diligence would thus lead a prospective purchaser to check there. Not me. They're usually marked up, excessivly, as Ben says.

And I can scarcely ever envision any peace of mind from buying a train ticket more than 24 hour before its intended use.

But I am more certain about what I think about buying railpasses. in the vast majority of circumstnces, they induce a person to think they have bought a bargain by having them think that they need to ride around on trains a lot to &quot;see Europe&quot;. With the exception of business travelers who may have appointments in many cities per day, day after day (and there may be other exceptions), I think that most rail passes (sold ourtside Europe) constitute an inherently bad value.

Not in every case. Rail'n'Drive packages are exceptions sometimes also.

But usually.

Best wishes,

Rex

Thx for the replies. When I put a proposed itinerary into railsaver.com, the fares it quoted didn't seem to match what I got on the RENFES website. For instance, Madrid-Barcelona appears to be about 60 euros but raisaver quotes 59 dollars (which would be a 20% savings). Of course, for Madrid-Barcelona, it looks like you can fly for 60 euros, so the train doesn't appear to be much of a bargain.

For Lisbon-Madrid, it also quotes 59 dollars. On the portugese rail website (I couldn't find prices for this line on the spanish one), a tourist class tix is 54 euros, but I assume that most would recommend getting one of the sleeper class seats for that line. Is that right?

In the end railsaver.com says don't go with the pass, but I wonder if their individual fares listed are actually right.

There is no such thing as a &quot;sleeper class seat&quot;. A &quot;sleeper&quot; is a bunk bed in a private compartment.
In general, railpasses are not a good idea for Spain and Portugal. Basic train fares are low, but long-distance trains in Spain must be booked in advance so a rail pass does not offer any advantage - you cannot hop on and off trains as you might in some other European countries. There are also many journeys which can only be made by bus, so it is generally better to pay for travel as you go, using trains and/or buses according to circumstances.

Let's see if Raileurope marks up tickets 30% that means that their Eurostar round-trip fare of $90 should be $60 if bought in the UK! Well on most trains it really about 30% more if bought in UK - rubbish of course to make such a blanket statement. Swiss Pass prices thru RailEurope in US are currently significantly cheaper than same passes bought in Switzerland. RailEurope actually sells some German pt-pt tickets for single travelers at rates cheaper than at stations in Germany. Such a blanket statement is simply not true and misleading - you could say in many cases RE charges more but not always so do the research.
And i doubt if the Spain-Portugal flexoipass you talk of can even be bought in Spain a'tall. and such a railpass could save you money - or may not so check renfe for euro prices.