My wife, daughter and I are planning on riding the rails in Europe at the end of this October. Eurail passes look like the way to go from a cost standpoint. We intend to take the train from Venice to Florence and then after a 3-night stay, ride the rails to Zurich to take in what we hope will some beautiful Alpine scenery. We intend to spend one night in Zurich and then take the train to Paris. I'm somewhat apprehensive as I've never traveled by train before. Can we make seat reservations at the same time we buy the Eurail passes? Do we need to? Are there always plenty of empty seats on the trains? If we have a reservation and miss the train are we out of luck? Do we need to validate our tickets if we have reservations? If I had any other intelligent questions, I'd ask them, too, but... Obviously, I'm open to suggestions, comments, criticisms, etc.

Hi D,

>Eurail passes look like the way to go from a cost standpoint.<

Did you determine that by checking the prices at the national railway web sites?

www.trenitalia.com/en/index.html has special offers on Florence to Zurich - look under "Promotions".
Venice to Florence is 35 and 24E for 1cl and 2cl, respectively.

www.voyages-sncf,com has Zurich/Paris for as low as 35E.

Should you decide to buy passes, Raileurope will sell you the seat reservations at the time you buy your passes. You will need them on the high-speed trains, eg, ES* in Italy or TGV in France.

>If we have a reservation and miss the train are we out of luck?

You have to buy a new seat res, if you are on a railpass.

>Do we need to validate our tickets if we have reservations?

Yes, unless you have a railpass.

For your journey, I think that you will find railpasses to be much, much more expensive than point-to-point tickets.

I suggest going to www.railpass.com where you can input your proposed itinerary and determine whether or not a pass would be more economical than buying point to point tickets.

In terms of the trip from Florence to Zurich, the amount of alpine scenery you actually see can vary from what is IMO good to very good depending on the rail route you choose and whether or not you are willing to make some easy changes along the way.

As to using passes...if you use one there is nothing to validate other than the pass itself and that is before the first use only. Seat reservations do not require any sort of validation.

There may or may not be empty seats on trains depending on the timings.

Davenport,

Similar questions come up on Fodor's almost daily.

It should be pointed out that some trains may require reservations. These are the premium trains, TGV, Thalys, EuroStar Italia, etc. The Eurostar goes from Venice to Florence.

Never buy a reservation in the USA. Wait until you get to Europe and only buy reservations if required. Schedules will show a capital R in a rectangle if a reservation is required.

This site, http://tinyurl.com/eym5b, is a good introduction to using the trains in Europe.

For more information and for buying a pass I recommend Budget Europe Travel in Ann Arbor. Call them up at 800-441-2387. Ask for their excellent booklet "Europe Planning & Rail Guide."

Yes, you will not be disappointed for scenery on the trip up to Zurich.

Zurich is not the best place to take in Alpine scenery - rather go to the Interlaken area, which is actually much better for your Italy to Paris itinerary as it is just off the main north-south rail line. The ride there is fantastic and a night in a Grindelwald type place will be the memory of your trip:

glaciers, waterfalls and 13,000 foot peaks just a few miles from your chalet-style guest house balcony.

If you do the discount online ticketing the pass will be too much - but for fully flexible travel on trains you want as you go along - if that is a criteria then opt for the pass - which is first class if comparing prices to 2nd class online discount lowest prices.

I'd always pay extra for first class on long train trips and you have a much better chance of getting reservations in first class as you go along.

Thanks, everyone. You've given me a lot to digest and made me realize that even with all the research I've done, I need to dig deeper. I went to Rick Steve's website which gave me a 5-day Select Pass price for the three of us of $1009. The single ticket prices I looked at seemed much higher. Obviously, I was looking for love in all the wrong places! My only wish is that y'all (yes I'm from Georgia) agreed on everything. I guess, though, if you did the world would be a boring place.

If you want to make reservations when you buy a pass do not go thru ricksteves.com as they refuse to make any reservations but just sell the pass and then tell you to go to www.raileurope.com - which would result in unneccesary $18 mailing fee just for the reservations

Indeed many agents will not make reservations because they are a hassle and pay no commission - i guess RailEurope gets all the $11 and they will make them. I always advise using BETS (800-441-2387) for any reservations with railpass purchase because of their great service and you can talk to someone knowledgeable. RailEurope charges +10% for any phone order their web site has said. And www.raileurope.com is notoriously for giving poor info - like the common "Sold Out" when in reality the train can be booked manually by an agent and the Sold Out often just means the trains have not been loaded.

Indeed i've checked RailEurope.com at times for such trains as Rome-Florence and it would lead me to believe there were only a few trains a day at odd hours when in fact there are 2 an hour but they do not nearly list every train that is available.

RickSteves.com has great info but if buying a pass and needing reservations look elsewhere as they apparently don't want to do the dirty work that reservations seem to be.

IME with a first-class pass which Eurailpasses only are for folks over 25

you should have no problem making Venice-Florence reservations on site (and there are a few daily IC trains you can just hop on and they are not all that much slower than the ES (EuroStar Italia) trains on this trajectory.

Florence to Zurich ditto - i think there may be one direct train a day it not Florence-Milano and Milano-Zurich via Cisalpino train (CIS) which require reservations and should be easy to make with first class pass - can do all your reservations in Venice.

Zurich-Paris should be fine as well in first class - there are lots of alternatives to the few daily direct Zurich-Paris trains - such as hourly trains to Lausanne and switch to more frequent trains to Paris from there.

Some folks don't care to have the possibile hassles (long lines) in making reservations and may wish to pay extra to do it with the pass - just have to show up at the station and hop on with your reserved seat. But except standing in lines you could do it all at once in Venice.

Bob,

Our daughter is already in Italy; and the school where she's studying has someone on site that can help with travel arrangements. If we can buy point-to-point tickets there, my problem, to quote Inspector Clouseau, is sol-ved.

I went to the Rail Europe web site and it indicated that all of the first class tickets (if I'm going to be on a train for 7+ hours, I'm thinking first class is the way to go) at my preferred time (late AM) were sold out on the Florence-Zurich run. They did have 3 first class seats on the train that arrived at 10:30 PM (ugh!) for $528 (double ugh!). I haven't checked on the Venice-Florence or Zurich-Paris runs, but if the Eurail pass is only $1009 for 5 days, I'm not sure I need to. If you have anything else to add, intelligent or otherwise, I'm all ears.

I would like you to elaborate on your comments about Interlaken, though. If the scenery is prettier and the ride is shorter and the price is cheaper (or any of the three), I'd love to hear your thoughts. The idea of a 7-hour train ride is not especially appealing. Three or four hours of beautiful scenery would be a plenty, thank you very much.

Thanks again for your help, Bob.

P.S. I write Bob, but I welcome all comers. I'm an equal opportunity no-nothing.

Interlaken - yes scenery is much more awesome than Zurich - i'd end up in either Grindelwald or Lauterbrunnen-wengen - the essence of alpine Switzerland - stay in a chalet-style hotel with view of glacier-girdled Jungfrau Massive peaks just a few miles from your balcony - cow bells tinkle in the distance - a Valhalla - the Switzerland of your dreams.

As for the ride being shorter - not much if any - and totally longer if you add on Interlaken-Zurich the next day or so.

But Grindelwald even for a day could be the absolute highlight of your trip IME

Well if 7 hour train ride too much how about a 9 hour ride - but this time on the EN (Euro Night) train that leaves Florence at 11pm and arrive in Spiez around 7am - with connecting train (20 min) to Interlaken

Save a hotel costs while traveling in comfortable EN (quality night trains) and gain an extra whole day in the Berner Oberland - two days there, much better than one

and a short few-hour train ride to Zurich when going to airport.