Fussgaenger

PalenQ - It's my bad - I see now that they're offering an additional discount when you enter TWO adults (which I did not do in my search.) Thanks for explaining that. $317 each is correct. Then all the add-on fares and reservations.

"Ok so looks like point to point is better than eurail in my situation..."

Did you pin down your travel dates and look at the actual prices for the specific trips you will take? If not, and if you're using my sample numbers, you're still at the "crapshoot" stage for making your comparison... since I have no travel dates, I cannot say that those low prices are available for point-to-point tix on YOUR travel dates. (However, it's my educated guess that you'll pay a good bit less than $850.)

"...first class kind looks tempting for long rides like Florence to Munich and Munich to Paris..."

As PalenQ says, you don't need a railpass to travel first class - you can buy all your tickets individually and get first class p2p tix cheaply for those routes where you want more room or more comfort. Just check the first class box when you do your search for those specific routes.

HOWEVER, there's one more option that hasn't been discussed - the 5-day German Rail promo pass (€260 for two in 2nd class - €130 ea - OR €351 for two in 1st class (€175 ea.) With this pass you can cover MUCH more of your trip than you might think! It's good on certain routes into and out of Italy and the CZ Republic - so you get some of the benefits of a select pass without the high price...

With the German rail pass you can travel from Bologna Italy on the direct EC train to Munich. (Bologna is on the way from Florence anyway just 35 train minutes to the south.) Then... You can use the 5-day German rail pass to Prague (IC Bus,) from Prague to Bamberg (IC Bus + train,) for a day trip to Rothenburg (train,) and finally from Bamberg to the French Border (lets say Karlsruhe, Germany.)

Thus you'd have a set price of €130 ea. for all 5 of those trips. Then you'd pre-purchase tickets for individual journeys within Italy... Rome - Florence - Pisa and the short trip from Florence to Bologna when you go to Germany. Also, a saver fare from DB for the trip from Karlsruhe to Paris if you are indeed going there as well (maybe €39.)

I don't know how this will all add up for your travel dates, exactly but it will very likely be much less than the select pass plus all the add-ons.

Here's the link to the German Rail site for the rail pass and the promo tickets:

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/pr...railpass.shtml

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/pr...romotion.shtml

nanwar1214

Awesome will look into all those points you guys mentioned. I did look at the dates roughly and looks like we'll be in Florence till 23rd so aiming to be in Germany by early 24th. The main concern is that it's gonna be Christmas time and we just don't wanna be on the train on Christmas although I do realize wherever we reach on Christmas everything will be closed. But if we just go from Florence to Bologna since it's a shorter trip any idea if it's a better option to spend Christmas there or something like reaching Munich on 24th early and then try to be in bamberg on Christmas Day? The Prague option isn't fixed yet so I'm not considering that since my friends will be going to France from Munich and one of my friends lives in tours, France so I'm considering just going to France with them too as I'll save accomodation cost by living with her so if that's the case Prague is out.
if were in bberg for Christmas and everything is closed in ok with that as I don't wanna see a specific place in bamberg just wanna walk around the town.

nanwar1214

heres roughly what we have in mind

Landing in Rome early in the day on 19th leave Rome 21st to Florence
Florence stay till 23rd including a trip to Pisa and if time any other nearby places then preferably night train from Florence to Munich to be able to get there by 24th morning or earlier in the day then on 25th to bamberg either stay there for two days and visit rohtenburg or make day trip and back to Munich on 25th night (looks tough since transport will run on Christmas timings or might not run at all) then we'll be around in Germany till 28th and probably leave for France 29th
Now according to this plan looks like I might have extra days in Munich? Any idea if I should change the number of days in any of these places? Also my only thing is I wanted to see Christmasarkets which I understand would end by 2pm 24th so if we're in Munich by 24th morning I might still catch it? Or if we don't catch it that's fine also I just wanna be in the Bavarian area while the Christmas decorations are still up because although I don't celebrate Christmas I just love that time of the year and love holiday lights and decorations so right now I'm imagining myself walking around in either a quite closed down bamberg or Munich and just walking around the city (let me know if this isn't a practical or good idea) secondly my concern is for one of my friends who just doesn't wanna be on the train on Christmas and if we reach a place there should be a possibility of at least some restaurants or something open for us to have dinner or something (just don't want her Christmas to be gloomy and depressing since she'll be celebrating away from family anyway) so if I made any sense in this post lol please suggest if this plan is find or any other options that would fit this requirement!

nanwar1214

PalenQ is there an email contact for budgeteuropetravel page since I cannot call them it's easier for me to talk through email.

PalenQ

nanwar - I do not have any email info for them - maybe their site has info. Sorry. But Fussagenger has given lots of good info - point to point is your best bet if OK with booking in stone far in advance which is fine for many - have everything buttoned down.

Fussgaenger

Your plan has unrealistic parameters... you have WAY too much ground travel in mind for the time you have...

8+ hours on the train from Florence to Munich...
4 hours round trip to Bamberg from Munich (and you'll be on the train Christmas Day when you didn't want to be??)
4-5 hours for a day trip to Rothenburg
9-10 hours to Tours, FR

Obviously Prague with your friends is a pipe dream. Your idea of an overnight train to Munich might sound good, but it could things worse if one or more of you have trouble sleeping (as many do on night trains.) Then getting off in the wee morning hours in Munich with no room to check into until the afternoon... that may not be much fun.

As I understand it you (and/or friends) need to reach Germany by 12/24 and arrive in Tours on 12/29.

Instead of trying to travel all of Bavaria on Germany's eastern border, you should be enjoying southern Germany along the border with FRANCE instead, which will save you lots of ground travel time and still give you access to old-world Germany and Christmas markets...

12/21: Leave Rome for Florence. Skip trip to Pisa (which most experienced travelers tell you to skip anyway.)

12/23 or 24: From Florence, catch a train to Freiburg (10 am; less than 8 hours via Milan and Bern Switzerland, nice alpine scenery) and arrive in Freiburg around 6 pm. (On 12/23, the market closes for good at 8:30 pm so drop your bags and get there.)

Freiburg is a very handsome and lively university town and a nice place to spend time walking around:
http://www.heinzalbers.org/picture-frb0032.jpg
http://img361.imageshack.us/img361/5...iburg088wv.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...rg%29_4029.jpg

Pub guide: http://www.europeanbeerguide.net/freipubs.htm

From Freiburg you can take short outings. Colmar (FR) is an easy trip just across the French border and a very scenic old town that is famous for its Christmas markets, which are open on the 24th and even the 25th and afterward:
http://www.noel-colmar.com/en/

Gengenbach is about an hour away from Freiburg:
http://www.stadthotel-gengenbach.de/...innenstadt.jpg

Basel CH is also a possible destination.

Or you can plan an outing from Freiburg on one of Germany's most scenic train routes Black Forest Railway line; a group day pass should be around €30:

http://www.black-forest-travel.com/p...t-railway.html

12/26 or 27 + 28: Move on from Freiburg to another base town to the north. Some good options:

Strasbourg (FR)(1.5 hrs from Freiburg)
Stuttgart (2 hrs. from Freiburg; day trip to Ludwigsburg and/or Esslingen and/or Tübingen?)

Ludwigsburg: http://barockerlebnis.de/en/home/


12/29: Travel to Tours. From Strasbourg you are only 4 train hours from Tours. From Stuttgart it would be 6-7 hours.

nanwar1214

oh wow that sounds like a great idea! I mean I've always wanted to go to bamberg but if it's not possible within this time considering we don't want to be on a train or even reaching a place tired on Christmas I guess I'll skip it and take up ur idea.
And if I get to pass by Switzerland on the way and see it just from the train too I'd freaking love that!

An alternative option in my mind was Innsbruck since it's a shorter trip compared to Munich from Florence and looks like it's amazing during Christmas but looks like the trip from there to Paris would be really long?
Also can't skip Pisa at all cuz it's one of my friends choices and we need to do at least one place of everyone's choice :/

Fussgaenger

"...secondly my concern is for one of my friends who just doesn't wanna be on the train on Christmas and if we reach a place there should be a possibility of at least some restaurants or something open for us to have dinner or something (just don't want her Christmas to be gloomy and depressing since she'll be celebrating away from family anyway)"

Christmas day in Germany would mean a meal at a train station eatery or perhaps at a major hotel. The Colmar option on Christmas day might be the right antidote for the doldrums.

nanwar1214

Any good hostel options in the places uve mentioned?

nanwar1214

Would the Bayern pass still be an option in these places? or any other cost Saving transport option? Checked the train from Florence to Freiburg this is what I got

Train
7hrs 42min$158 - $181
Bus
12hrs 48min$62 - $115
Night train, night bus
12hrs 08min$64 - $86
Drive
7hrs 36min$130 - $180
Fly to Basel, train
6hrs 50min$159 - $513
Fly to Zurich, train
5hrs 45min$147 - $273

Fussgaenger

"...that sounds like a great idea!"

If you can't leave Florence on the 23rd because of Pisa, then check train trips for Florence-Freiburg on the 24th.

For trips from Freiburg to Stuttgart, Gengenbach, through the Black Forest... here's your day pass:

http://www.bahn.com/i/view/USA/en/pr...g-ticket.shtml

You can use the same day pass to travel to the French border near Strasbourg (via Offenburg) - but to get all the way to Strasbourg you'll need an additional ticket for the french part, should be just a few Euros. The Europass 24h mini at €6.60 each gets you from the border to Strasbourg and back on the train; sorry only have this info in French and German but you should be able to get it in Offenburg before you board the train to Strasbourg from a ticket machine:

http://www.ortenaulinie.de/site/Orte...r_2014_web.pdf

For the day trip from Freiburg to Colmar and back, use the group Regio-Elsass Ticket (€25.20 for up to 5 persons.) Train to Breisach + bus to Colmar. Flyer is in German and French:
http://www.suedbadenbus.de/suedbaden...o_2015_web.pdf

And of course you will need to look into long distance train tickets...
1.) Florence-Freiburg (You can buy a saver fare at DB from Milan to Freiburg; Florence-Milan would be bought through trenitalia. Perhaps there's a better ticket deal elsewhere that covers the whole route, I don't know.)
2.) ???-Tours (check DB if starting out from Germany.)

nanwar1214

Also since colmar is in France shouldn't we do it after we're done from freiburg and take a train to Paris or tours from colmar?

nanwar1214

Cuz the thing is I'm on a schengen visa which is single entry and a lot of people tell me nobody really checks once ure in the schengen area but just to be on the safe side I think taking a day trip to colmar and back to freiburg then going again to France would count as two entries so if there's a way to get done with the German places u mentioned and then do colmar that would be better I suppose

nanwar1214

I just thought of another alternate option
Florence to Lugano
Then to Strasbourg in France
The only thing again is I'm not sure if spending Christmas in Lugano would be a good idea? Also I understand since it's in Switzerland it maybe really expensive however I did some research and was able to find some budget places for a night and also that u do no really need to spend on transport when ure in Lugano so sounds good so far.
The only thing is the trains on route
( from Lugano to Strasbourg and then from Strasbourg to tours )is coming out to be much more costlier than the Germany route

kybourbon

>>>bourbon always pushes second class on trains<<<

And you always push 1st class passes. For Rome/Florence, you are talking about a 90 minute ride. The rule of thumb is typically rides longer than 4 hours, you might want to consider more space.

This is 2nd class on the Trenitalia fast trains in Italy (will be similar looking for fast trains in the other countries you are listing, but you can check Seat 61 for those exact photos).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...ssainterno.jpg

If you take 2nd class on the Italo fast trains (they only have fast trains) which also run between Rome/Florence, this is what they look like.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/210684088791264468/

Since you are traveling during holidays, I would book fast trains in advance (not regional train routes like Florence/Pisa).

nanwar1214

Those trains look pretty good for short rides! So how far in advance should I book my longer routes? For eg Florence to Freiburg or Munich it wherever we decide

PalenQ

ah those staged unrealistic photos of 2nd class bourbon always trots out - if 2nd class was typically like that no one would ride in first class yet many do - again bourbon I am presenting all info I know - I mention discounted tickets in both classes and a rail pass for this trip only - only IF they are going to Paris too and wanted flexibility to take trains they chose once there not book in stone weeks in advance and if they want first class. That's called all the options where you only push 2nd class discounted tickets and push 2nd class thru totally unrealistic photos of a bran new train with seats half full - are you saying that is what to expect in 2nd class - that those idealistic photos are what one should expect? NIME.

Please don't mischaracterize my giving all the options as pushing something - I mention the benefits of first class something you pooh-pooh as being nearly no difference. Please give all the options so folks can make their own choice not a prescription my way or the highway approach.

Cheers!

I am not pushing a first

PalenQ

If you take 2nd class on the Italo fast trains (they only have fast trains) which also run between Rome/Florence, this is what they look like.

https://www.pinterest.com/pin/210684088791264468/>

Yes the seats and carragie looks like that but where are all the folks in every seat - baggage everywhere - remains of snacks and cans and newspapers - again a propaganda photo why not show 2nd class as it really is and not an empty train car? Flummoxed why you are so so distorting things?

I think you should always show BOTH 1st and 2nd class cars if trying to show the difference which of course you are not.

2nd class is fine but first class much finer - please try to be objective and not give such a slanted fake impression - show real cars with real passengers!

sla019

>of course if you have a 5-day pass and are only using three days you could then use it for your Bavarian trips and save the cost of a Bavarian Ticket (and take much faster trains to Rothenburg as the Bavarian Ticket is good only on regional trains <

There are no direct ICE trains to Rothenburg. From Munich yould would have to go to Nurenberg first and switch to regional trains. So, in the morning the total travel time Munich - Rothenburg is 2:55 by ICE (65$) and 3:13 by (more direct) regional trains (23$, using a Bayernticket).

PalenQ

thanks for the correction sla019!