EURAIL OR CHEAP FLIGHTS?
Sep 21st, 2012, 10:51 AM
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EURAIL OR CHEAP FLIGHTS?
I want to go to europe this summer with a friend and we are considering getting an EURAIL pass but a lot of people seem to advise against this, they say that it costs money to make reservations and you need to book way in advance. We plan on going in may which we heard is just before peak season, We also would like to know if it is better to book hostels/hotels far in advance or just wing it and book when we get to the city. We want to visit Madrid Barcelona Paris Verona Florence Rome and then fly from Rome to London and London home. What is the best way to go about this?
Sep 21st, 2012, 11:37 AM
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Lots of country trains do not charge a seat reservation fee, some do so it depends on which countries - many you can still hop on any train anytime and such fully flexible tickets can cost a ton of money. Check out these fab IMO sites for lots about European trains and passes - www.budgeteuropetravel.com; www.ricksteves.com and www.seat61.com - the latter is a font of great info on online discounted tickets which however are sold in limited numbers and must be booked weeks in advance and typically cannot be changed nor refunded - so whether flexbility is desired or not is a key to which is better.
Sep 22nd, 2012, 08:12 AM
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they say that it costs money to make reservations and you need to book way in advance>
not true and typical of the misinformation about railpasses that it typical of Fodor's where there is an automatic bias against railpasses with typical comments 'they are always a waste of money' and misinformation like this - you say something enough people will believe it and repeat it as fact.
Fact is in UK, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, Norway and Eastern Europe on nearly all trains you can still hop on with a railpasses on any train you want - complete flexibility.
Now in France, Spain and Italy you do have to have mandated seat reservations before boarding and except in the case of some French TGV lines which have a limit on the number of passholder seats they will sell per train - in Italy and Spain you can always IME get needed seat reservations as you go along - only on a few TGV lines in France should you book way in advance.
Unfortunately you are going to the three countries that mandate seat reservations so you have to figure in the cost of trains but again in Italy or Spain you do not have to book seats with a pass weeks in advance - IME you can usually book the same day as there are so so many trains and if you have a first class pass it is all the more easier as first class often has empty seats.
And most French TGVs charge but 3 euros a seat for domestic travel - international ones can charge more - like those going to Switzerland from Paris - In Italy the fee is 10 euros per train and in Spain around 10-12 I think.
And if you are over 25 then you Eurail Pass usually is first class and there are immense benefits IME for the average traveler in first class - especially those hauling around lots of luggage - more empty seats - always empty seats IME - more room to stow luggage - seats are bigger, etc. So compare the pass price to the cost of first class tickets IMO.
Yes the Fodor's mantra is that discounted online tickets which do have to be bought weeks or months in advance to guarantee their availability are the way to go - this advice is often given IME without even asking how many trains you will take or where - if you take many trains then a pass cold well be cheaper than a collection of non-changeable non-refundable tickets that must be booked weeks in advance. Now I am not saying that many folks naively may buy a railpass for just a few trips and they should not - do your research - do not believe the info you got from others like the one I quote here at the top of my post.
One problem with online discounted tickets is that for international journeys they may not always exist and also since these are in very limited numbers often you must book when they come on the system - typically 2-3 months in advance. But if your trip will take say three weeks you may find you can book the first trips two months early but not the later trips until they come on the system and then you never know if they will be available - they are not available on all trains - and then you may have booked some discounted tickets but found subsequent train trips could only have full fare and that can be very costly - point is you cannot book all your fares at once due to time limits of when they come on the system so it is hard to know all at once how much you will spend.
And you lose flexibility to take any train anytime but advance online booking.
One train that railpass holders should avoid is the Thalys train between Paris and Brussels and Amsterdam and Cologne - this is the only train I know - regular train that imposes an absurd seat reservation fee on pass holders - about $35 in 2nd class and much more in first class - but you do not have to take this train usually unless you are going between Paris and Brussels- from Brussels on there are other trains you can just hop on - and since many folks go to Bruges from Paris then you can take a French TGV to Lille and regular train to Bruges in about the same time as going via Brussels and with a pass only pas a 3 euro seat reservation fee.
not true and typical of the misinformation about railpasses that it typical of Fodor's where there is an automatic bias against railpasses with typical comments 'they are always a waste of money' and misinformation like this - you say something enough people will believe it and repeat it as fact.
Fact is in UK, Belgium, Netherlands, Germany, Switzerland, Austria, Denmark, Norway and Eastern Europe on nearly all trains you can still hop on with a railpasses on any train you want - complete flexibility.
Now in France, Spain and Italy you do have to have mandated seat reservations before boarding and except in the case of some French TGV lines which have a limit on the number of passholder seats they will sell per train - in Italy and Spain you can always IME get needed seat reservations as you go along - only on a few TGV lines in France should you book way in advance.
Unfortunately you are going to the three countries that mandate seat reservations so you have to figure in the cost of trains but again in Italy or Spain you do not have to book seats with a pass weeks in advance - IME you can usually book the same day as there are so so many trains and if you have a first class pass it is all the more easier as first class often has empty seats.
And most French TGVs charge but 3 euros a seat for domestic travel - international ones can charge more - like those going to Switzerland from Paris - In Italy the fee is 10 euros per train and in Spain around 10-12 I think.
And if you are over 25 then you Eurail Pass usually is first class and there are immense benefits IME for the average traveler in first class - especially those hauling around lots of luggage - more empty seats - always empty seats IME - more room to stow luggage - seats are bigger, etc. So compare the pass price to the cost of first class tickets IMO.
Yes the Fodor's mantra is that discounted online tickets which do have to be bought weeks or months in advance to guarantee their availability are the way to go - this advice is often given IME without even asking how many trains you will take or where - if you take many trains then a pass cold well be cheaper than a collection of non-changeable non-refundable tickets that must be booked weeks in advance. Now I am not saying that many folks naively may buy a railpass for just a few trips and they should not - do your research - do not believe the info you got from others like the one I quote here at the top of my post.
One problem with online discounted tickets is that for international journeys they may not always exist and also since these are in very limited numbers often you must book when they come on the system - typically 2-3 months in advance. But if your trip will take say three weeks you may find you can book the first trips two months early but not the later trips until they come on the system and then you never know if they will be available - they are not available on all trains - and then you may have booked some discounted tickets but found subsequent train trips could only have full fare and that can be very costly - point is you cannot book all your fares at once due to time limits of when they come on the system so it is hard to know all at once how much you will spend.
And you lose flexibility to take any train anytime but advance online booking.
One train that railpass holders should avoid is the Thalys train between Paris and Brussels and Amsterdam and Cologne - this is the only train I know - regular train that imposes an absurd seat reservation fee on pass holders - about $35 in 2nd class and much more in first class - but you do not have to take this train usually unless you are going between Paris and Brussels- from Brussels on there are other trains you can just hop on - and since many folks go to Bruges from Paris then you can take a French TGV to Lille and regular train to Bruges in about the same time as going via Brussels and with a pass only pas a 3 euro seat reservation fee.
Sep 22nd, 2012, 08:37 AM
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Why Eurail or budget flights? Why not budget trains?
Madrid-Barcelona starts at around €45 booked at www.renfe.com (any payment problems, use www.petrabax.com instead)
Barcelona to Paris by Elipsos trainhotel costs €74 winter, €93 summer with bed in 4-bed sleeper see virtual tour at www.elipsos.com and book at renfe.com or petrabax.com/renfe
Paris to Verona by thello sleeper train from €35 with couchette www.thello.com
Fares between Italian cities from €9 at www.lefrecce.it
Madrid-Barcelona starts at around €45 booked at www.renfe.com (any payment problems, use www.petrabax.com instead)
Barcelona to Paris by Elipsos trainhotel costs €74 winter, €93 summer with bed in 4-bed sleeper see virtual tour at www.elipsos.com and book at renfe.com or petrabax.com/renfe
Paris to Verona by thello sleeper train from €35 with couchette www.thello.com
Fares between Italian cities from €9 at www.lefrecce.it
Sep 22nd, 2012, 09:19 AM
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You should also you ask your questions on the message board forums for Lonely Planet website and Bootsnall. Those boards have a lot of people your age who have already done just what you are thinking about doing, and many of them traveled very spontaeously. You just need to be careful that sometimes people won't tell you about all the mistakes they made -- but that's true of any message board!
Sep 22nd, 2012, 10:07 AM
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so how do i book online tickets for travel in Italy and france, my friend and i are considering cutting out spain and going from North starting in amsterdam then going down to italy and back up to Paris then taking the eurostar into london then flying home with occasional stops in a few cities along the way
Sep 23rd, 2012, 07:36 AM
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Why Eurail or budget flights? Why not budget trains?>
What Man in Seat 61 continually misses is that some folks want flexibility to chose what trains they want to take when there and if so a very few full fare trips may warrant a railpass. Man - please try to wrap your head around that discount tickets that must be booked weeks or months in advance and which are usually not changeable may not be the panacea for everyone as you routinely say - some folks actually want flexibility to hop trains as they go. I'm sorry you cannot appreciate that fact.
What Man in Seat 61 continually misses is that some folks want flexibility to chose what trains they want to take when there and if so a very few full fare trips may warrant a railpass. Man - please try to wrap your head around that discount tickets that must be booked weeks or months in advance and which are usually not changeable may not be the panacea for everyone as you routinely say - some folks actually want flexibility to hop trains as they go. I'm sorry you cannot appreciate that fact.
Sep 25th, 2012, 07:58 AM
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We want to visit Madrid Barcelona Paris Verona Florence Rome and then fly from Rome to London and London home>
One problem with a Eurail Pass for that next summer would be that normally I would recommend to consider a Eurail Select Pass, valid in Spain, France and Italy but as of Jan 1. 2013 I understand that France is withdrawing from the Eurail Select Pass option - and a Global Eurailpass costs a lot more but would still cover France - just Eurail Select will no longer be valid in France I understand.
One problem with a Eurail Pass for that next summer would be that normally I would recommend to consider a Eurail Select Pass, valid in Spain, France and Italy but as of Jan 1. 2013 I understand that France is withdrawing from the Eurail Select Pass option - and a Global Eurailpass costs a lot more but would still cover France - just Eurail Select will no longer be valid in France I understand.
