laurakaatz

MorganB or other "Train Expert", I'm trying to book on SNCF for fares from Lausanne to Paris on September 25 at around 18:00 and then Paris to Berne on September 28 at around 17:00. I will have a Swiss Half Fare Card which gets me 50% discount on SBB Swiss fares, but where I'm running into difficulty is the international connection. On SNCF's website I can get PREM's to near the French/Swiss border on TGV and then can print those tickets - which is what I want to do - BUT there are also Piccolo fares all the way through that are just a little bit more. For example, there is a Piccolo Fare from Lausanne on TGV #9272 to Paris that I want - but the only option is to have it mailed or pick up at automatic ticket machine in France and since I'll be in Switzerland that isn't an option. Same thing applies to my preferred return to Switzerland on TGV #9285 from Paris to Berne.

So... my question is, if I buy the PREM's online just inside the French borner and print them and make my reservation for the TGV seats, can I just buy the other portion which is just inside France to/from the Swiss cities (Frasne or Vallorbe for the Lausanne connection and Pontarlier for the Berne connection)once I get to Switzerland - this is where I must buy tickets to use the Swiss Half Fare Card - AND be able to keep my reserved seat?

OR better yet, do you know how to print the Piccolo Fares - that would be my easy answer! I'm a little nervous to print just the French portion and then have to piece it together with the Swiss portion once I get there.

The other option is a French Rail Pass for three days for $204 on the Saver - my mother is traveling with me. It seems much higher than the PREM's though... we are going to be mainly in Paris from Sep 25-28, but will take a trip to Versailles. Would it be worth it to just get the pass?

Thanks!
Laura

kappa

> do you know how to print the Piccolo Fares ...

Piccolo is normally a cheaper (often €20) Prem's fare and can be printed as Prem's. But I see what you mean, you don't get "print yourself" option in this case eventhough no insurance chosen, residence left as "france" . Perhaps it has something to do with this route being partly Swiss (Lasuanne - Vallorbe). I don't get this problem when I buy Geneva - Paris because when you take TGV for this route, you are already in French sector at Geneva station.

kappa

Yes, I tried Paris - Berne. The only train I got departs Paris at 16:44. €45 is a great price, I think, for this less frequested route than Lausanne or Geneva. But still no self print option. Perhaps you want them to send both tickets to your hotel in Switzerland and inform this to the hotel too?

Dukey

As I recall from the original "help" guide you will not get the "print yourself" option if the route crosses borders.

There is a long discussion at the bottom of that thread re trying to print tickets from Paris (or somewhere in France) for a trip to Irun in Spain and the alternative was to print tickets for the trip to Hendaye instead.

laurakaatz

I've heard other people who had trouble having their tickets mailed to their hotel - they were lost and then they had to buy the most expensive "on the spot" tickets as well. Is it safe to print the PREM's for the French portion and then buy the Swiss portion once I'm in Switzerland? Thanks all so much for your help - this is a tricky thing to get these pieced together. ;-)

PalQ

Paris-Versailles is just a few euros each way so not a factor in a pass, which it seems doesn't pass for you in light of the bargain prices you can get.
Swiss Half-Fare card i believe gives 25% off regular fares on international trains originating in Switzerland but probably not on online cheapies.

altamiro

>I've heard other people who had trouble having their tickets mailed to their hotel - they were lost and then they had to buy the most expensive "on the spot" tickets as well. Is it safe to print the PREM's for the French portion and then buy the Swiss portion once I'm in Switzerland? Thanks all so much for your help - this is a tricky thing to get these pieced together. ;-)

There is no reservation requirement on ANY "normal" (non-tourist) trains within Switzerland, including the TGV's. You can always buy the ticket from Bern or Lausanne to the last station before the border and take any train including the TGV. The only problem is that on this line there is no proper "border station" but one fully in CH (Vallorbe) and one fully in F (Frasne), and I am not sure about the regulations on this part.

laurakaatz

Altamiro, for the trip from Lausanne to Paris I can print the PREM's from Frasne to Paris... it's that section from Vallorbe to Frasne that I'm concerned about, but it's so short it can't be much of a cost - looks like only 15 minutes. So I think I'll print the French portion from Frasne to Paris to get the good rate. On the return to Bern from Paris, I can print all the way to Pontarlier, then buy the Pontarlier to Bern at 1/2 price.

I don't see a way to use the Half Fare Card online in Switzerland... since you have to buy the pass in Switzerland, or pay the high price to have it shipped to the US.

Thanks so much all - I hope this works and we don't get tossed off at the border. ;-)

kappa

> I don't see a way to use the Half Fare Card online in Switzerland...

Laura, if this can be bought online, you just need to use 1/2 fare that is also children's fair.

> There is no reservation requirement on ANY "normal" (non-tourist) trains within Switzerland, including the TGV's.

"including TGV's", altamiro, are you sure about that? I know e.g. Cisalpino Swiss-Italy within Swiss territory can be taken without reservation but TGV is basically all reserved seats, as far as I know, with seat reservation supplement.

Besides, with Cisalpino, it's easy to tell reserved seats from and non reserved ones thanks to those small piece of paper put above the seats. If one such says Seat No --, Geneva - Milano, the seat is take for the route but TGV don't have that system.

altamiro

>"including TGV's", altamiro, are you sure about that?

A friend of mine commutes between Zürich and Bern. He has to be in Bern before 9 and usually takes the TGV at 7:14 from ZH instead of the Intercity. He claimed that the train is emptier at the time and the seats are more comfortable. I might get into the same situation in a couple of month, but I have no reason to doubt his words.

I know e.g. Cisalpino Swiss-Italy within Swiss territory can be taken without reservation but TGV is basically all reserved seats, as far as I know, with seat reservation supplement.

Yes, but not all the people who reserve the seats go the whole way from Paris to Zürich or Bern. Most will get out at Besancon or Dijon.

PalQ

If you go to the www.bahn.de website for schedules for all of Europe you'll find out if "reservations are compulsory" or not on the segment TGV you'll be taking.
I've heard the same about no reservations required on TGVs inside Switzerland. This is buttressed by the fact that a recent accord reached between the Swiss and SNCF regarding the soon to open LGV-Est high speed line that will have trains from paris going into Switzerland that Swiss rail demanded that no reservations be required for journeys within Switzerland.
But i'm not sure about current TGV situation but the bahn.de site will tell you whether or not they are.

kappa

> Altamiro, I think it had better be checked specically for the route Lausanne - Vallorbe, if only to avoid a bad surprise. ZRH - BRN is understandable because that's a part of main ZRH - GVA route, still many if not most will take this TGV in Bern than in ZRH so not much problem to let passengers w/o reservation to get on before Bern. Lausanne - Vallorbe is another matter. That's not a main line at all, except for 5-6 TGV's a day. If you check timetable on sbb/cff.ch, it will give you only "s" local trains for this route, no TGV. Perhaps, you cannot buy TGV ticket only for the Swiss territory on this route. That's why I was wondering. I don't know it for a fact about this specific route.

altamiro

Kappa,
most travel in Europe happens still - EU or not - within countries, not so much across the border. I will bet a large sum that the particular TGV from Zürich via Bern to Paris will be fuller between Zürich and Bern (commuters), then rather empty till Dijon, and fills up there. In between it goes through Jura, which is one of the emptiest regions of both Switzerland and France. Not much potential for the train to fill up.

altamiro

Kappa,
I have to apologize. On the TGV's from lausanne there is a reservation requirement from Lausanne on because the tickets from Lausanne to Vallorbe are not valid on this train - you can only get on board in Valorbe, not get off.
On the TGV's to Bern and Zürich the same system comes in effect from Neuchatel. Between Zürich and Neuchatel it is just another intercity train.

kappa

Ok, I try in other words. As you exactly said, TGV between ZRH & BRN would be empty thus, they let the commuters on. It is also a much longer line just than Lausanne - Vallorbe so, leaving it empty would be a waste. On the other hand, Lausanne - Vallorbe is a short distance and most passengers for TGV (Swiss and Foreign tourists - many tour gorups) get on in Lausanne for Paris. For those who get off before French boarder (there are not many. That's the difference from the main ZRH-BRN line. ) can take more frequest "S" local trains. This makes sense to me. Anyway what we are saying is speculation and we don't know the fact about this particular route. If I don't forget, I will check it tmorrow with CFF and will post the answer here.

altamiro

Actually what I wrote in the last post comes from the SBB website. But check yourself.
In any case, a commute between Bern and Zürich, and maybe up to Neuchatel is a very common one; then the train enters Jura and there is suddenly hardly anyone to commute.

kappa

Ok, good morning, altamiro, so the following is what I found out.

According to CFF/SBB info Nr. I called, even for Lausanne - Vallorbe you have to have a reservation. They said also it should be the same for ZRH-BRN too at least by theory.

Concerning > what I wrote in the last post comes from the SBB website ..

All I can find is the following about Cisalpino (that i already said above) for CH - Italy. No indication about CH - France. Can you provide more info (URL for example) where you read it?

> Bella Italia by Cisalpino
Swiss tickets are still valid within Switzerland. A seat reservation is recommended.
http://mct.sbb.ch/mct/en/reiselust/e...frankreich.htm

beaupeep

All this ticket discount printing PREM stuff is too technical for me but I live in Lausanne and take the TGV to Paris at least four times a year and you always need reservations. I can tell you that I have a friend who works here in the Lausanne train station as a ticket agent and often tells me when I am buying my ticket that the special fares for the entire trip are lower than to use my 1/2 fare card for the short distance between Lausanne and Frasnes. So I normally just buy the special fare. Hope that helps with the decision. I suppose if you want I can go up to the train station at lunch (because I have an appointment on the next block) and find out the exact amount that you would save between those two stops.

altamiro

A remark from the SBB description of the Brig-Lausanne-Paris TGV:
http://tinyurl.com/ehryg
From this link:

>GRUPPEN: Beförderung nicht möglich (Brig --> Vallorbe )

No group travel Brig->Vallorbe

>Globalpreis (Lausanne --> Paris-Gare-de-Lyon )

Global pricing (i.e. not km-based) Lausanne-Paris

>Reservierung obligatorisch (Lausanne --> Paris-Gare-de-Lyon )

Reservation required Lausanne-Paris

>VELO: Reservierung obligatorisch

Bicycle transport: reservation required.

It means that from Brig to Lausanne the TGV follows the Swiss rules concerning reservations.

Same applies for the Zürich-Bern-Neuchatel-Paris TGV: the French rules apply from Neuchatel on, when the train leaves the densely populated areas of Switzerland.

kappa

> Brig to Lausanne the TGV follows the Swiss rules

But we were talking about Lausanne - Vallorbe. Brig - Lausanne was never in the topic.

> French rules apply from Neuchatel on, when the train leaves the densely populated areas of Switzerland.

And from Lausanne on towards Vallorbe, that's a country side with much fewer poplulation, same as from Neuchâtel, then why not th French rules apply there?