Eight tips on buying wine in a French supermarket
Nov 16th, 2014, 01:30 AM
#61
I hadn't realised that Grüner Veltliner was now out of fashion. Just one bottle to go, and then I can give up. I used to enjoy it, but that was yesterday.>>
chartley - please carry on drinking your Grüner Veltlinger if you enjoy it, it's just that I don't and the other austrian wines that we drank when we were there were rather more to my taste. I quite enjoy a vignonier, and much prefer it to Chardonnay, except the decent ones like white Burgundy of course!
<<I'm still scratching my head about what the posts above mine have to do with wine in French supermarkets.>>
kerouac - nothing at all of course, except they are about wine buying which is not unadjacent to the OP is it? I agree that talking about wine varieties is redundant when discussing [most] french wine, but in german terms it's quite [all?] important.
chartley - please carry on drinking your Grüner Veltlinger if you enjoy it, it's just that I don't and the other austrian wines that we drank when we were there were rather more to my taste. I quite enjoy a vignonier, and much prefer it to Chardonnay, except the decent ones like white Burgundy of course!
<<I'm still scratching my head about what the posts above mine have to do with wine in French supermarkets.>>
kerouac - nothing at all of course, except they are about wine buying which is not unadjacent to the OP is it? I agree that talking about wine varieties is redundant when discussing [most] french wine, but in german terms it's quite [all?] important.
Nov 16th, 2014, 03:02 AM
#62
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Ann, I think the problem is that we see very few Austrian wines in Britain, and we have spent very little time in Austria. Many regions of Europe produce wine, but a lot is for local consumption. We enjoyed local sekt and tokaj when in Slovakia, and some friends have just given a bottle from Savoie, which is not commonly available.
As for grape variety and terroir, while traditional French wines assume that everyone knows the grape varieties used, there is a lot of other French wine, especially but not exclusively from the Languedoc and south-west France, that clearly identifies the cepage on the label, giving the purchaser an idea of the flavour and style.
Some people also want to consider things like bio-dynamique, vendange a la main, and vendange nocturne. It was much easier in the days of Black Tower and le Piat d'Or.
As for grape variety and terroir, while traditional French wines assume that everyone knows the grape varieties used, there is a lot of other French wine, especially but not exclusively from the Languedoc and south-west France, that clearly identifies the cepage on the label, giving the purchaser an idea of the flavour and style.
Some people also want to consider things like bio-dynamique, vendange a la main, and vendange nocturne. It was much easier in the days of Black Tower and le Piat d'Or.
Nov 16th, 2014, 05:47 AM
#63
It was much easier in the days of Black Tower and le Piat d'Or.>>
lol, chartley, not to mention Lutomer Riesling or are you too young to remember that particular rot gut? It was more or less all the co-op local to my Bristol uni digs stocked, along with Bull's Blood, if you wanted a red - no wonder we all used to get tanked up on the cider at the Coronation Tap.
When we were in Austria a few years ago we did a tour of some Heurige [wine taverns that sell their own wine] and also went to the wine festival at the wonderfully named village of Gumpoldskirchen, just south of Vienna; the wines were a revelation. I suspect that like the germans, they drink the vast majority of the best stuff themselves. For the same reason I don't know anything about Slovakian wines - I wonder if they travel?
lol, chartley, not to mention Lutomer Riesling or are you too young to remember that particular rot gut? It was more or less all the co-op local to my Bristol uni digs stocked, along with Bull's Blood, if you wanted a red - no wonder we all used to get tanked up on the cider at the Coronation Tap.
When we were in Austria a few years ago we did a tour of some Heurige [wine taverns that sell their own wine] and also went to the wine festival at the wonderfully named village of Gumpoldskirchen, just south of Vienna; the wines were a revelation. I suspect that like the germans, they drink the vast majority of the best stuff themselves. For the same reason I don't know anything about Slovakian wines - I wonder if they travel?
Nov 16th, 2014, 06:53 AM
#64
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We do get quite a selection of Austrian wines also in Germany - in regular supermarkets usually only the staple variants, more in dedicated wine shops. Grüner Veltliner still is the best known (and probably most sold) Austrian white here. And Zweigelt probably the same in Red, so to speak.
Aside from that, you usually judge German or Austrian wines by four criteria: origin/"terroir", grape(s)/blend, year/vintage, vineyard/vintner.
The first two do not say much about quality and give you just a general idea how the wine will taste.
A Riesling from the Saale-Unstrut valley near Dresden will be very different from Mosel or Baden.
Most "terroirs" cultivate much more than just one grape/blend, often much more, depending on how many variants can be cultivated on the respective soils. As we are much further North than the French vineyards and usually on properties with a much steeper incline, you also have more microclimates in the same area. So you can (or rather must) cultivate grapes that need lots of sun on the Southern slope, and other grapes elsewhere.
The denominating factor is the year and especially the vineyard or vintner. His or her efforts can mitigate (within reasonable limits) negative effects of a too hot or too cold summer or a too dry or too wet fall.
In general, the cultivation, the focus on smaller but better harvests makes it perfectly possible to have one outstanding Riesling or Müller-Thurgau from the same year and "terroir" which otherwise only has acid dishwater to offer.
As one dedicated vintner usually puts the same effort and work in all the different wines he or she produces, it is a much safer bet to buy a different wine from the same vintner instead of buying the same wine from a different vintner from the same area.
Aside from that, you usually judge German or Austrian wines by four criteria: origin/"terroir", grape(s)/blend, year/vintage, vineyard/vintner.
The first two do not say much about quality and give you just a general idea how the wine will taste.
A Riesling from the Saale-Unstrut valley near Dresden will be very different from Mosel or Baden.
Most "terroirs" cultivate much more than just one grape/blend, often much more, depending on how many variants can be cultivated on the respective soils. As we are much further North than the French vineyards and usually on properties with a much steeper incline, you also have more microclimates in the same area. So you can (or rather must) cultivate grapes that need lots of sun on the Southern slope, and other grapes elsewhere.
The denominating factor is the year and especially the vineyard or vintner. His or her efforts can mitigate (within reasonable limits) negative effects of a too hot or too cold summer or a too dry or too wet fall.
In general, the cultivation, the focus on smaller but better harvests makes it perfectly possible to have one outstanding Riesling or Müller-Thurgau from the same year and "terroir" which otherwise only has acid dishwater to offer.
As one dedicated vintner usually puts the same effort and work in all the different wines he or she produces, it is a much safer bet to buy a different wine from the same vintner instead of buying the same wine from a different vintner from the same area.
Nov 16th, 2014, 07:19 AM
#65
thanks for that explanation, cowboy. I particularly agree about following a vintner but that's not always possible when we have so little real choice of german/austrian wines here.
It would probably be cheaper and certainly better to do what bilbo did and to do a dedicated wine-buying trip! perhaps next year....
It would probably be cheaper and certainly better to do what bilbo did and to do a dedicated wine-buying trip! perhaps next year....
Nov 16th, 2014, 10:04 AM
#67
Just the fact that German Riesling is sweet deserves a firing squad.>>
well, actually, kerouac, it isn't always, in fact the new "trocken" style is very popular, though personally I don't think that it suits the riesling grape, which needs to have a bit of sweetness to bring out the fruit, but that's my old-fashioned opinion.
anyway, are you going to consign Sauternes to the dustbin too, or is that OK because it's french?
well, actually, kerouac, it isn't always, in fact the new "trocken" style is very popular, though personally I don't think that it suits the riesling grape, which needs to have a bit of sweetness to bring out the fruit, but that's my old-fashioned opinion.
anyway, are you going to consign Sauternes to the dustbin too, or is that OK because it's french?
Nov 17th, 2014, 06:57 AM
#69
it's ok, kerouac, it's unlikely that you'll be asked to.
I'm not that fond of it myself but I do understand why people like sweet wine with certain puddings for example. For myself, i think that an off-dry riesling makes an excellent accompaniment to chicken, pork, and ham dishes, but I'm not asking you to share my tastes - it means that there's more for me, and you can carry on drinking your mouth-puckeringly dry sauvignon blanc to your heart's content.
I'm not that fond of it myself but I do understand why people like sweet wine with certain puddings for example. For myself, i think that an off-dry riesling makes an excellent accompaniment to chicken, pork, and ham dishes, but I'm not asking you to share my tastes - it means that there's more for me, and you can carry on drinking your mouth-puckeringly dry sauvignon blanc to your heart's content.
