Eight Days in Berlin; Walks, Food, Museums and Ambivalence
Dec 10th, 2015, 10:59 AM
#21
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The political and artistic significance of the new Reichstag (with photos!)
http://www.thepinnaclelist.com/2015/...erlin-germany/
http://www.thepinnaclelist.com/2015/...erlin-germany/
Dec 10th, 2015, 11:08 AM
#22
Yes, sandra, I'm aware of all of that. And, as I said, I took a guided tour. Maybe I would have been more impressed if I were German. Especially from the east.
BTW, your profile says you are "gone from Fodors forever". How come you're still here?
BTW, your profile says you are "gone from Fodors forever". How come you're still here?
Dec 10th, 2015, 12:46 PM
#23
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I don't think Berlin is an attractive city, but I find it very interesting. I think my first visit was in 1965.
Two things I have missed in my numerous past visits are the Pergamon and Das Haus der Wannsee Konferenz. After reading your comments about Wannsee, I may not go there after all. I am another who has never visited one of the camps, as I feel there is a limit to what I'll put myself through.
I've read a great deal about the Third Reich and have seen much on television about it, so that I already know a quite a lot about the Holocaust. I'm not sure that I need to know more.
I've seen considerable evidence that the Germans have come to terms or attempted to come to terms with their horrific past. In several cities, I've seen "stolper Steine,"--"stumbling blocks,"--which are brass placques sunk into the sidewalks in front of houses where Jews formerly lived. They list the names and birth dates of the people who lived there and on the bottom line--"murdered at Auschwitz" and the death dates.
There was apparently a Stolperstein outside the Catholic cathedral at Desden in memory of a young priest who was killed at Dachau, but I could not locate it. The ashes of this priest and two others had been placed in front one of the side altars.
When I was able to locate the memorial to the book burning on the Bebelplatz in Berlin, it was because I saw a teacher and a group of junior-high-aged students standing in a circle and looking down at the memorial, which is underground in an room filled with empty shelves. He was telling them the names of famous authors whose books had been burned.
Another time I was going through the museum "The Story of Berlin," and I was walking behind another teacher with a group of students. We were going up steps formed from replicas of books placed with their spines upward, so that one could read the title and the author.
The teacher was telling the kids about the book burning, and she mentioned that the author Eric Kästner was watching as books of his were thrown into the fire. Kästner was well-known for some of the children's books he wrote.
On some of my early visits to Berlin, I saw a sign for a cabaret--"It wasn't me. Adolph Hitler did it." I've no doubt that was a bit of irony, typical of the Berliner sense of humor. Another item that one of my teachers presented was a poem who translated something similar to the following:
Everybody knew.
Most people knew.
Many people knew.
Some people knew.
A few people knew.
Nobody knew.
A reference, of course, to people's tendency over time to slowly abdicate responsibility for and knowledge of the treatment of the Jews.
And of course all over Berlin one sees monuments to the Nazizeit and the Holocaust.
Two things I have missed in my numerous past visits are the Pergamon and Das Haus der Wannsee Konferenz. After reading your comments about Wannsee, I may not go there after all. I am another who has never visited one of the camps, as I feel there is a limit to what I'll put myself through.
I've read a great deal about the Third Reich and have seen much on television about it, so that I already know a quite a lot about the Holocaust. I'm not sure that I need to know more.
I've seen considerable evidence that the Germans have come to terms or attempted to come to terms with their horrific past. In several cities, I've seen "stolper Steine,"--"stumbling blocks,"--which are brass placques sunk into the sidewalks in front of houses where Jews formerly lived. They list the names and birth dates of the people who lived there and on the bottom line--"murdered at Auschwitz" and the death dates.
There was apparently a Stolperstein outside the Catholic cathedral at Desden in memory of a young priest who was killed at Dachau, but I could not locate it. The ashes of this priest and two others had been placed in front one of the side altars.
When I was able to locate the memorial to the book burning on the Bebelplatz in Berlin, it was because I saw a teacher and a group of junior-high-aged students standing in a circle and looking down at the memorial, which is underground in an room filled with empty shelves. He was telling them the names of famous authors whose books had been burned.
Another time I was going through the museum "The Story of Berlin," and I was walking behind another teacher with a group of students. We were going up steps formed from replicas of books placed with their spines upward, so that one could read the title and the author.
The teacher was telling the kids about the book burning, and she mentioned that the author Eric Kästner was watching as books of his were thrown into the fire. Kästner was well-known for some of the children's books he wrote.
On some of my early visits to Berlin, I saw a sign for a cabaret--"It wasn't me. Adolph Hitler did it." I've no doubt that was a bit of irony, typical of the Berliner sense of humor. Another item that one of my teachers presented was a poem who translated something similar to the following:
Everybody knew.
Most people knew.
Many people knew.
Some people knew.
A few people knew.
Nobody knew.
A reference, of course, to people's tendency over time to slowly abdicate responsibility for and knowledge of the treatment of the Jews.
And of course all over Berlin one sees monuments to the Nazizeit and the Holocaust.
Dec 10th, 2015, 01:03 PM
#24
I found my visit to Berlin interesting, primarily due to the Nazi and Communist histories. We walked all over the city and enjoyed our time there. However, several friends had gone on and on about how much they loved the city which I didn't understand after being there. I would return but there are many other places I would visit again before Berlin.
Dec 10th, 2015, 08:55 PM
#25
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So glad to see that the trip report has stimulated some discussion and that it resonates or is useful for some of you. I agree Berlin is indeed an interesting city and as per the comments above the Germans have indeed faced their pasts more publicly than others. For those of you who have visited frequently it I must have been fascinating to have seen Berlin changing in the last few decades.
Peg - we were also interested to see the "stumbling blocks". I have to say there was something profoundly moving and deeply disturbing about the combination of the bougeious comfort of the Lieberman House and the Wansee Conference site. However, I don't regret the visit.
Ann - I travelled to Prague and Venice soon after my father died and in that case I think the beauty of the places was a comfort. My husband said you'll be sad wherever we go, so you might as well be sad in Venice!
Tom - thanks for pointing out your TR which I will certainly have a look at. We have visited the Neue Galerie but I'm looking forward to catching their current exhibition on Berlin before we leave New York. It is a charming museum.
We have indeed had the experience of becoming jaded after spending too long on the road, but in this case it was more the circumstances of my friend's death - suicide is profoundly unsettling.
Mes25 - I agree that the Ishtar Gate is fantastic but I have to say I’m not mad about the monumental quality of Schinkel's architecture which you see across Berlin. I’m with Sandralist on the Reichstag building - it was without doubt my favorite building in Berlin. However, I’m biased as I love Norman Foster’s work and just heard him give a lecture in London this spring.
My report was really meant to be a personal “take” rather than a primer on the place of post-war Germany in a unified Europe. But just to clarify (as someone who has been horrified by the anti-German sentiment in places I love like Ireland) of course we are all vulnerable to fascist demagoguery. It seems obvious, one only has to look at the American headlines these days to see that.
Peg - we were also interested to see the "stumbling blocks". I have to say there was something profoundly moving and deeply disturbing about the combination of the bougeious comfort of the Lieberman House and the Wansee Conference site. However, I don't regret the visit.
Ann - I travelled to Prague and Venice soon after my father died and in that case I think the beauty of the places was a comfort. My husband said you'll be sad wherever we go, so you might as well be sad in Venice!
Tom - thanks for pointing out your TR which I will certainly have a look at. We have visited the Neue Galerie but I'm looking forward to catching their current exhibition on Berlin before we leave New York. It is a charming museum.
We have indeed had the experience of becoming jaded after spending too long on the road, but in this case it was more the circumstances of my friend's death - suicide is profoundly unsettling.
Mes25 - I agree that the Ishtar Gate is fantastic but I have to say I’m not mad about the monumental quality of Schinkel's architecture which you see across Berlin. I’m with Sandralist on the Reichstag building - it was without doubt my favorite building in Berlin. However, I’m biased as I love Norman Foster’s work and just heard him give a lecture in London this spring.
My report was really meant to be a personal “take” rather than a primer on the place of post-war Germany in a unified Europe. But just to clarify (as someone who has been horrified by the anti-German sentiment in places I love like Ireland) of course we are all vulnerable to fascist demagoguery. It seems obvious, one only has to look at the American headlines these days to see that.
Dec 11th, 2015, 07:52 AM
#30
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" Maybe I would have been more impressed if I were German. Especially from the east."
Being German( from the east?) has nothing to do with understanding the mix of history, architecture and politics the new
Reichstag beautifully represents.
Some knowledge of European history might help ....
Being German( from the east?) has nothing to do with understanding the mix of history, architecture and politics the new
Reichstag beautifully represents.
Some knowledge of European history might help ....
Dec 11th, 2015, 08:14 AM
#31
"Some knowledge of European history might help ...."
If that is directed at me you are way off. I grew up in England right after WWII, I studied European History up to university level, and I have a done a great deal of reading on WWII and the Nazis, including contemporary diaries. I have also visited Auschwitz, an experience from which it took me some time to recover. I took the 90 minute tour of the Reichstag. I found the building interesting, but not as compelling as I expected.
If that is directed at me you are way off. I grew up in England right after WWII, I studied European History up to university level, and I have a done a great deal of reading on WWII and the Nazis, including contemporary diaries. I have also visited Auschwitz, an experience from which it took me some time to recover. I took the 90 minute tour of the Reichstag. I found the building interesting, but not as compelling as I expected.
Dec 11th, 2015, 10:04 AM
#32
does anyone else find it ironic that thursdaysd isn't to be allowed her opinion of Berlin [which I loved] and is wrongly criticised for her supposed lack of knowledge of european history, on a thread on which we have touched on issues of freedom and by implication, free speech?
Dec 11th, 2015, 07:06 PM
#34
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thursday - I understood what you were saying and I always appreciate your perspective, I'm sorry this has turned the way things increasingly do on the Europe board, fractious, cranky and unforgiving.
As usual the comments say more about the posters than about Berlin.
As usual the comments say more about the posters than about Berlin.
Dec 11th, 2015, 10:14 PM
#37
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I'll be adding some links from my blog as they post, here's one on the Berggruen Museum in Charlottenburg. I love a museum that houses a personal collection as you get a feel for the taste and aesthetic of the donor. Recently renovated and shown in beautiful surroundings this is a delightful place to visit in a lovely neighborhood. It's close to a number of other museums and across from the Charlottenburg palace.
Lots of pictures of the art (Picasso, Matisse, Klee etc.) and lots more info on the blog...one of the things that it truly delightful is the opportunity to see such incredible works in such a tranquil surrounding. I couldn't believe how few visitors there were when I visited.
One of the many museum highlights in Berlin...
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2015/...um-berlin.html
Lots of pictures of the art (Picasso, Matisse, Klee etc.) and lots more info on the blog...one of the things that it truly delightful is the opportunity to see such incredible works in such a tranquil surrounding. I couldn't believe how few visitors there were when I visited.
One of the many museum highlights in Berlin...
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2015/...um-berlin.html
Dec 12th, 2015, 04:08 AM
#38
I've found that if you want an uncrowded museum the Asian ones in the US and Europe are almost always empty, or nearly so. That may change as more Chinese travel - several tour groups came through while I was visiting the Percival David collection in the British Museum this year - but so far it's pretty reliable. Really don't understand it, but the Sackler and Freer will be whisper quiet while the museums across the Washington Mall are be packed.
Dec 17th, 2015, 09:53 PM
#39
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Just posted another blog post with lots of photos and a more detailed description of the Neues Museum, which houses the incredible Egyptian collection and lots more in a newly renovate david Chipperfield building. If you're interested you can read more here...
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2015/...um-berlin.html
http://www.somuchmoretosee.com/2015/...um-berlin.html
Dec 18th, 2015, 08:07 AM
#40
wow, wtb, what a building, never mind the exhibits.
On our first [and so far only] visit to Berlin as the weather was so warm we only made it to the National historical museum but I can see we missed a lot. Perhaps next time we go on the legal exchange visit I'll persuade DH that he wants to spend some time in Berlin as well!
On our first [and so far only] visit to Berlin as the weather was so warm we only made it to the National historical museum but I can see we missed a lot. Perhaps next time we go on the legal exchange visit I'll persuade DH that he wants to spend some time in Berlin as well!
