Beth

Dave, <BR>I took my girls (age 17 and 14) to France last December. No matter what anyone says, we created memories that they will never forget. Standing in the American Cemetary at Omaha Beach cannot be experienced from a text book. Looking out from the top of Mont St Michel at night in the fog cannot be captured in a photo. Gazing out over Paris from the top of the Eiffel Tower cannot be put into words. <BR> <BR>You know your children best. If you want them to go, then just do it! I would bet that once your wife gets there she will regret the two week maximum. <BR> <BR>My girls loved our trip. They came home and made scrap books with all our photos. They continue to talk about it and can't wait to go back. I have given them the gift of passion. My passion for travel is now theirs. <BR> <BR>Although it will take me years to pay that trip off, I felt that it was something I had to do. I was very open about everything and they did their best to help out. They saved their money so they could buy all their own souvenirs. Make the kids feel like this is something they had to work for. I'm sure this time next year they'll be asking "So when do we leave for Europe?" <BR> <BR>Have a wonderful time! <BR>Beth

Dave

Thank you again, all of you, for all of your support and help. My wife has been reading your 'posts' and has really been touched by your comments. I feel as if she has really gotten behind me (and the trip) now. She is helping me a lot. My son's (5th grade) teacher asked us to have him keep a diary/be able to give a report, on his return. Great!!! My Fodors Friends, are my BEST friends! <BR> <BR>Mr. "C" <BR>

Distaff

Dave, Mrs. C., and girls: <BR> <BR>PLEASE write back, ALL of you, and tell us about your trip when you get back. That's everyone's "assignment" from your friends here!

Gina

Dean, <BR> <BR>"Self centered?" Oh yes, it's horribly self-centered of Mr. "C" to want to expose his kids to French and Italian language, culture, architecture, art and history. How dare he torture his children so for his "own self centered agenda"? <BR> <BR>Please. Every child should have such self-centered parents.

Lucas

Gina, I don't think you have read Mr. C's message properly.

Lucas

Sorry, I meant Dean's message.

AJ

One last post on this subject. Last night, my husband and I had dinner with two our clients who are retired school teachers. Their hobby is traveling, and we get together to talk about our latest trips. <BR> <BR>They were "shocked" that Nick's high school would drop him by one full grade, and said that they always encouraged their students to travel whenever possible. They also said that many teachers don't want their students traveling because it creates more work for the teacher, and that school districts are financially sanctioned for lower attendance. So if you're getting resistance, think that perhaps it's simply inconvenient for the teacher, and unprofitable for the school district, neither of which have anything to do with the benefit of the child.

Bob

As a high school teacher, who has also taught younger grades, you might think I would say leave them in school. Taking two weeks off to go to Hawaii and sit on the beach I can't condone, but 3 weeks in France and Italy?! What a wonderful learning opportunity! Art, history, architecture, etc. - go for it!

martha python

I'm all for travel, but I also support public education and am distrubed by the anti-school bent soem of these posts are taking. "unprofitable for the <BR>school district"? I assume AJ's referring to public schools,which as I understand it are nonprofit organizations. What do you think they do with their money that you're faulting them for worrying about funding? <BR>And, for what it's worth, I hope the young Cranes' teachers can work out some sort of accommodation that will put them in good standing and set Mrs C's mind at rest. I also hope Mr C will realize that that their doing so is a favor--none of us is owed a trip to Europe.

Gina

If Dean meant to satirize the people who criticize folks like Mr. "C" as "self centered," rather than making the criticism himself, then I apologize for my reaction. However, his post is a bit unclear as to whether he means that this: <BR> <BR>Teachers time is precious enough as it is. The extra time and effort needed to cater for children needing to catch up on their syllabus can be avoided by parents simply taking advantage of the normal school breaks rather than setting their own self centered agenda." <BR> <BR>...is his own opinion, or what he thinks some critical people might say. <BR> <BR>

rand

A reply from someone who was moved from school systems in one country to another 3 times and constantly hauled out of term early or returning late. I even had a 6 month vacation between Cdn and RSA schools. I still graduated grade 12 at 17. Travel. It opens the mind up so much that the boring stuff that old git up front is rambling on about now makes sense thereby letting more of it soak in than the other kids in class.

AJ

Martha, I am not anti-school. In fact, I just came from working at the elementary and middle schools for first day duty, and I spend a lot of time at my kids' schools. <BR> <BR>Here is the gripe. In my school district, teachers are permitted to take time off during the regular school year for jury duty, 4 days per year for the state education association convention (to which very few of our teachers have ever gone, preferring instead personal travel), personal development sabaticals ("Brain Study of First Graders", attended for 2 full weeks during school by my son's first grade teacher), and several miscellaneous teacher planning days. We also have a very lenient vacation policy so that teachers can actually, under certain circumstances, take their vacation and have a sub cover. <BR> <BR>I think that teachers should serve jury duty, take their vacations, and prepare themselves for teaching during the summer break, spring or winter break. <BR> <BR>Our district, on the other hand, plays games with our state legislature. Each student/day is reimbursed by state funds. Therefore, the school district plans several "late start" days which just barely qualify for a full student/day, in order to receive the reimbursement. These late start days are a pain in the neck. They require the parents to scramble to arrange different transportation and change their work schedules, which is difficult for some parents to do (not me). But worse, these "late start" days are known by the kids as party days, because the teachers don't really get any instruction rolling in the truncated time periods. <BR> <BR>Therefore, I am perfectly willing to keep my child in school and vacation only during scheduled breaks if the teachers will do the same, and if the district looks at what is best for the child rather than their budgets. <BR> <BR> <BR>

Lucas

Gina <BR> <BR>I think what Dean means is by all means take your children on vacation, but you should attempt to take them during the already generous school breaks. <BR> <BR>If you were to take them during the school term, then it could be seen as a self centred act, as their teachers and other children in class could suffer to a certain extent as a result.

Jury Duty

AJ, <BR> <BR>Unfortunately, those that choose to perform their civic duty by actually showing up for jury duty can not do so on any day they want. They are called, by the courts, to appear on a specific day - a day which may or may not coincide with breaks from school, vacation time, etc. In my opinion, to say that teachers should not appear in court unless it is during a school break is absurd. It is their right and responsibility, as it is of all U.S. citizens, to appear and serve.

AJ

Your Honor, <BR> <BR>I agree that jury duty is important. I have served, and will in the future, even though I don't get paid if I'm not at work. <BR> <BR>Teachers have the option of deferring their jury duty to the summer break without prejudice.

Iwantthisjob

AJ, <BR> <BR>Exactly what type of job do you have that you are not paid for serving jury duty but are paid to surf the net all day?

deborah savoie giulini

We live in Milan Italy and run into this problem with great frequence due to the plethora of travel opportunitiesand the severity of the schoolsystem. In the end, no reasonable teacher, dean or principal can argue that real viewing is not better than memorized learning. <BR>By the way, Pisa is a half-day stop.

Marie

Mr. Crane--i am going to Paris in October and we are making a special trip to visit the D-Day beaches to remember the brave men (like your father) who fought for us. <BR> <BR>About the school thing--my sister is a teacher, and I know for a fact that she spends literally every second of her day working with kids and helping them as best they can, and evrytime someone asks for a little bit more, it stretches her thin. I think that , with your special circumstances, a teacher would be willing to make special assignments or give extra credit, but they worry that students from more affluent families will be able to get extra credit for going to the Caribbean and lying on the beach for three weeks. I bet all the social studies teachers will support you once you mention that you are going to see the D-Day beaches.

elvira

Interesting information here. What a commentary on the state of our education system that children going on vacation strains both the teachers and the school system. And I'm not being sarcastic - I remember fellow students leaving early for summer vacation, or extending a winter vacation, in order to be with their families - even if it was just to get to the Cape a week early. Back in the Dark Ages, when I went to public school, there was lots of funding (even if the teachers still got paid lousy) and a kid being off for a week didn't break the back of the system. How awful that it does now...

Dave

I should have said this before but, we are planning (only) a half day in Pisa. I am not sure (yet) whether we will spend the other half day in Florence or traveling to Roma. <BR> <BR>I am glad my childrens schools and teachers were so cooperative. My kids have been back to school exactly three days, and they were given today and tommorrow off, for one of the previously mention 'teacher days'. I imagine that put a sudden and surprising strain on a lot of parents. We can/could all use a little 'compassion training' when it comes to our fellow human beings and their problems, huh? <BR> <BR>Mr. "C"