We have an upcoming trip to Munich, Berlin, Prague, and Vienna. (2 week time period) I am still trying to sort out if we would prefer to rent a car for travel between cities or take the train.

We realize that we would most likely not use the car while in these big cities with excellent public transportation and would pay a great deal for parking.

But at looking at the price of train tickets( On the deustche bahn site) versus a car rental with estimated parking charges it is almost a wash.

I like the freedom/ flexibilty of a car to stop and see sights and be on our own time. I feel like we might be able to see more of the countries we are visiting.

But sometimes driving and navigating can be quite frustrating.

My question is to experienced travelers - What is it like to drive in these countries and the above mentioned cities?

What are the border crossings like between countries?

We do have an International Driving Permit that we used in Italy last summer .

Thanks very much for any input!

Hi Angieb,

When you did your calculations, did you look at the Dauer Special fares? You book these three days in advance, and the single fare for all of Germany is 29E. Here's the site for more information:

http://www.bahn.de/international/vie...rspezial.shtml

I'm a huge fan of the trains. I think they are a lot of FUN, something that many car-drivers (many of my fellow Americans) sometimes don't realize, and that you cannot really put into a calculation! They also let you meet and greet actual residents instead of only those Germans in the tourist or commercial business.

I don't really think that having a car allows you to see "more" -- well, maybe "more" but at a more shallow level, because you would be just sort of breezing by. I enjoy lingering, waiting for a train or bus at a cafe outside the train station, watching people, memorizing the views, etc. So, slow travel may get you to fewer places, but you've seen **more** because it's more in depth.

Also something else not calculable -- trains are more green. I hated seeing the smog covering so much of the US and would really hope to head it off here in Germany.

Have fun with your planning!

s

I generally prefer driving, but with the ground you are trying to cover and the city focus, I would take the train (or look into budget airlines). You would want at least three days in each city, and that doesn't leave much time.

We really enjoyed the countryside and small towns in Germany/Austria, so if it were my trip, I might drop one of the cities, probably Berlin, and drive the rest. If you do rent a car, be aware that 1-way drop charges between countries are quite high in Europe, so even there it might make sense to do a flight for part of the trip.

Count me in as someone who LOVES riding the trains. It is relaxing for one thing, so while on vacation it is nice to not have to stress about getting lost. As to seeing scenery, only one person gets to look out of the window in a car and ooh and ahh, the other person has to watch the road.

Have you figured in time? How long it takes to get from one city to another by car versus train. When sitting on a train going 300 km an hour, it beats driving a car hands down.

I didn't see you mention gas prices either. You do know they are considerably higher here don't you? If you get the train specials this is your best bet.

With two weeks and four big cities you won't have much time exploring the small towns in the countryside.

A hint re: Special fares that swandav mentioned. Book as early as possible, they are limited and sell out quickly. Also, you are restricted to exactly that one train connection that you book. However, they are a good deal and I use them as often as I can. (Grand)children up to five years old travel for free without notice, (Grand)children up to 15 years old travel free with a notice on the ticket (enter in the form when booking online).

Did you see the special for Berlin - Prague? It is available from 29 Euro per person on. And for Munich - Berlin special fares should be available, too, maybe not 29 but certainly for 49 Euro per person.

Buy the ticket to Vienna in Prague - much cheaper than from Deutsche Bahn.

I agree with Mainhattengirl, gas prices are high. I doubt you'll travel less expensive with a car.

A 47 miles per gallon Diesel powered car in Germany vs. a 20 mpg gas powered car in the US:

Germany:
1.10€ per liter Diesel = 4.18€ per gallon = $6 per gallon /47 miles = you pay $0.13 per mile in Germany.

US:
$2.40 per gallon / 20 miles = you pay $0.12 per mile in the US.

I'd drive, trains are totally unreliable nowadays.

>trains are totally unreliable nowadays.
Huh?

logos, this is not realistic. You compare apples and oranges. A mini van like the Renault Scenic or the Ford C-Max (both Diesel powered) are not better than 31,5 mpg. See the test report in Auto Motor Sport.

Also, why do you compare a gas powered car to a diesel powered car?

I, like quokka, am wondering why you think trains are totally unreliable nowadays. Not my experience.

Finally, I personally wasted *way* more times in traffic jams on roads/motorways than by missing a train connection or a train arriving late.

I.

I prefer driving, I like the flexibility it gives, the chance to explore little villages, and mountain roads. The chance to stop when you've had enough, or have a picknick in a nice spot. I enjoy navigating, he enjoys driving.

I get bored to tears on trains. Even a two hour train journey is enough to start me getting stir crazy.

swandav2000 - One more hire car on the roads isn't going to contribute much to the carbon load - if you are so worried about being green then I suggest you don't fly - it is far worse for the environment.

There are much better mileage cars than a Scenic or a Ford. Just have a look at Peugeots 1.6 liter Diesels. You realize, those people that promote trains do always drive a car themselves?

The train system is technically unreliable (look at Berlin), look at the common delays everywhere else. It's only a matter of time before the next huge accident. 300kph is possible only on a tiny fraction of the tracks. Not even 200kpm is reached most of the time with the ICE. 120-150 is common. Prices are sky high for what is offerd, going up 5% per year for nothing (no improvement). And this company spies on their employees and claims to be above the law. Who wants to give them more money than needed. It's a planned demolition which is going on.

Just as an example, the train Munich-Stuttgart, years ago managed the distance in 2h05 min, a few years later it took 2h35min.

Today it "only" takes 2h25 which were promoted as a big improvement. ... (If you're lucky) They do not publish the "on time" statisctics anymore, wonder why.

Hi AB,

Four major cities in 2 weeks?

>I like the freedom/ flexibilty of a car to stop and see sights and be on our own time. I feel like we might be able to see more of the countries we are visiting.<

In that case, stay in Germany.

>But at looking at the price of train tickets( On the deustche bahn site) versus a car rental with estimated parking charges it is almost a wash.<

Have you added in the cost of fuel and tolls (if any)?
Have you factored in the drop off fees from picking up in one country and dropping off in another?
What are your estimated parking charges?

>We do have an International Driving Permit that we used in Italy last summer <
It is only good for 1 year.

I also enjoy the freedom that a car affords. You can come to the fork in the road and make a quick decision which way to turn! DH and I really enjoy that aspect. We have discovered some really great places by doing just that. We would never have found them via the train.

If I am not mistaken, however, rental car companies maybe (?) do not allow rental cars to go to Prague. I believe there are theft problems... you would be better off taking the train in that case.

Enjoy your trip.

Cars can be liberating in the German countryside, and are handy for staying at specific country inns or doing farm stays. Driving in and out of, and around, Berlin, Vienna, Prague, and Munich is traffic Hell, not freedom. Parking is expensive and time consuming. Tickets are easy to get for speeding (lots of radar guns there) and mis-parking. Rental companies tend toward the crooked and can tend trump up charges for dings you didn't make.

Save your money, your time, and your vacation. Take the train. You leave the heart of the city and arrive relaxed in the heart of the next one, and you can both enjoy the scenery as you go without worrying about navigating or anything else. It couldn't be much easier.

You didn't get my point, logos. Once more, you compared apples to oranges. Sure, there are cars with better mileage than the Scenic or the Ford, but there are also cars with much better mileage in the U.S. I drove a van over in the U.S. that had the mileage you calculated with. So you must compare it to a van in Germany, too. And, please, I didn't even use the price for gas in Germany although I drove a gas powered van in the U.S.

Yes, I do drive occasionally. But especially on those long trips that the original poster plans - between major cities - I travel by train. Like back in July this year Dresden-Munich. Totally reliable, btw.

Oh, and regarding accidents - there are plenty every day on the roads in Germany. The reduced speed that you list is calculated in the schedules. Honestly, I prefer the trains to go slower than 300 kmph.

Oh, and hetismij, I agree that driving gives the chance to explore little villages and mountain roads. But not in this case - just have a look at the itinerary of the original poster - if they want to do the drives between the cities in one day they won't have time to explore small towns. They need to drive straight from one to the other. And just for the record - swandav doesn't fly (anymore). Moved to Germany and rides trains. One hire car more for each traveller couple would make a lot of more cars on the road. Thank god some folks feel some responsibility for mother earth.

Compare the average US car to the average German car and you'll notice fuel costs don't differ nearly as much as expected given the difference in taxes, right. And that's the point. And DB couldn't care less about saving the earth. It's only about money.

Hetismij -- I don't, actually. I have a trip to Switzerland in Nov and though it might be quicker to fly, I will enjoy the trains.

Yes, I agree, one car won't make a difference. But the change happens one at a time.

I lived in Knoxville for nine years, and in the summertime we would be warned that the air outside was too dangerous to stay in. We had "air quality" warnings, and often it was in the "danger" zone.

In fact, the American Lung Association says that six out of 10 Americans live with unhealthy levels of air pollution.

I never, ever thought the same thing would happen in Europe. But then -- I saw the brown lid of smog over Lake Geneva.

So, one (ex-)driver at a time!

s

Ingo, the OP will flying - a hire car will add little to their carbon footprint for the trip. They say they like to be able to stop and see sights in their own time. Hard to do that when the countryside is whizzing by outside your train window.

The saving mother earth argument is a bit misplaced on a forum based in the US and largely visited by people intending to fly transatlantic for their two weeks holiday.
Trains need electricity or diesel to move - that has to be generated somewhere, or burned, generating more greenhouse gases. The higher the speed, the more the pollution.

hetismij,

Misplaced or not, I'll keep making the argument.

Futile or not, I'll keep making the argument.

I know it's a difficult change, but it starts somewhere. Even to get Americans onto the trains.

And -- I have very often followed my nose in the middle of a train trip. It's not hard at all. Just hop off and go back or go on on foot, by bike , or by another train. I now live without a car at all, and I love it (well, there *are* days, like today, with a heavy backpack and additional load of books and cleaning products . . . on my bike . . . was tough).

Anyway. Bottom line is -- trains are fun!

s

>It's only a matter of time before the next huge accident.
Please check statistics how many thousands of people die on the road every year in this country and compare it to statistics of train accidents.

>And DB couldn't care less about saving the earth.
This is about each and everyone of us caring or not.

>The saving mother earth argument is a bit misplaced on a forum based in the US
1. Not everyone here is American. I thought this was an international forum?
2. If you admit that openly that the topic is not popular in the US, I am allowed to say it's time for more Americans to start thinking.

Shame people are so brainwashed about cars.

I do not drive, by the way.

>brainwashed
That works both ways. Our wannabe environmentally concerned government bans light bulbs, subsidises new cars and coal fueled power plants that release more co2 than road traffic, while crying about global warming.

But that's another story.