driving the Alps: Swiss, Austria, Italy and France
Jun 2nd, 2023, 06:42 AM
#21
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My advice not to drive on the first day was spoken with concern and not judgment. I realize it isn't a long drive but I still think it would be better to pick up the car the next day. But that's JMO, and it's your trip. Have fun.
Jun 2nd, 2023, 06:53 AM
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Jun 2nd, 2023, 06:54 AM
#25
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I suppose the main purpose of your trip is the drive and may be the landscape.
Therefore I don't mention all the scenic towns, castles churches, museums etc. along or close to your itinerary.
(Cortina -) Arabba - Bolzano:
fastest route: via Pordoj Pass - Karer Pass
most scenic route: via Gardena Pass (or Pordoj Pass - Sella Pass) - Ortisei - Alpe di Siusi.
Don't underestimate the many hairpins on Falzarego Pass, Pordoj Pass, Gardena Pass and Stelvio (Eastern ramp).Even if there are not too many dumb tourists running at extremely slow speeds, the journey will get incredibly long.
Therefore I don't mention more time consuming alternatives for this leg resp. a visit of the very scenic old city center of Bolzano/Bozen.(with the world famous Ice man Oetzi museum) or of Glurns, the smallest entirely walled city of the world.....
St. Moritz - Julier Pass - Thusis - San Bernardino Pass - Bellinzona isn't that scenic. I would do the whole thing the other way round:
St. Moritz - Maloja Pass - Chiavenna - Lake Mergozzo - Lake Como - Menaggio - Lake Lugano - Lugano (underestimated by Americans!) - Capoolago - Porto Ceresio - Ponte Tresa Lavena (all along lake Lugano) - Luino - Lake Magggiore - Laveno - car and passenger ferry - Intra - Stresa.
From Stresa, you could go on as planned (Simplon Pass - Forclaz Pass - Montets Pass - Chamonix) or reach Chamonix via the Bernese Oberland (with an intermediate overnight stop):
Stresa - all along Lake Maggiore - Ascona - Locarno - Bellinzona (famous castles) - Airolo - Gotthard Pass - Susten Pass - Grimsel Pass - Brig - Martigny.
Then either Martigny - Forclaz - Montets - Chamonix .... as planned, or
Martigny - Gd St-Bernard Pass - Aosta (charming medieval city center, Roman theater etc.) - Petit St-Bernard Pass - Albertville,
and then either Chamonix or Annecy.
Last day: back to Zurich by motorway (via Geneva - Lake Neuchatel - Lake Biel/Bienne)).
Therefore I don't mention all the scenic towns, castles churches, museums etc. along or close to your itinerary.
(Cortina -) Arabba - Bolzano:
fastest route: via Pordoj Pass - Karer Pass
most scenic route: via Gardena Pass (or Pordoj Pass - Sella Pass) - Ortisei - Alpe di Siusi.
Don't underestimate the many hairpins on Falzarego Pass, Pordoj Pass, Gardena Pass and Stelvio (Eastern ramp).Even if there are not too many dumb tourists running at extremely slow speeds, the journey will get incredibly long.
Therefore I don't mention more time consuming alternatives for this leg resp. a visit of the very scenic old city center of Bolzano/Bozen.(with the world famous Ice man Oetzi museum) or of Glurns, the smallest entirely walled city of the world.....
St. Moritz - Julier Pass - Thusis - San Bernardino Pass - Bellinzona isn't that scenic. I would do the whole thing the other way round:
St. Moritz - Maloja Pass - Chiavenna - Lake Mergozzo - Lake Como - Menaggio - Lake Lugano - Lugano (underestimated by Americans!) - Capoolago - Porto Ceresio - Ponte Tresa Lavena (all along lake Lugano) - Luino - Lake Magggiore - Laveno - car and passenger ferry - Intra - Stresa.
From Stresa, you could go on as planned (Simplon Pass - Forclaz Pass - Montets Pass - Chamonix) or reach Chamonix via the Bernese Oberland (with an intermediate overnight stop):
Stresa - all along Lake Maggiore - Ascona - Locarno - Bellinzona (famous castles) - Airolo - Gotthard Pass - Susten Pass - Grimsel Pass - Brig - Martigny.
Then either Martigny - Forclaz - Montets - Chamonix .... as planned, or
Martigny - Gd St-Bernard Pass - Aosta (charming medieval city center, Roman theater etc.) - Petit St-Bernard Pass - Albertville,
and then either Chamonix or Annecy.
Last day: back to Zurich by motorway (via Geneva - Lake Neuchatel - Lake Biel/Bienne)).
I'm considering the addition of the Great St. Bernard Pass, do you believe this to be the more scenic route?
Jun 2nd, 2023, 08:58 AM
#26
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also, I want to thank you for the thoughts that you provided in your reply to my post. This is EXACTLY the kind of feedback I was hoping for and has helped me tremendously in working out the details of this trip. It took me some time to think through everything that you suggested and I had originally written a much longer reply with some comments and questions, but apparently my forum session timed out during my deliberations and so that reply did not get saved onto the post. But, regardless, I have used much of what you suggested in my final route planning. So, thank you again, so much for taking the time to share your insights with me.
Jun 2nd, 2023, 08:59 AM
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also, I want to thank you for the thoughts that you provided in your reply to my post. This is EXACTLY the kind of feedback I was hoping for and has helped me tremendously in working out the details of this trip. It took me some time to think through everything that you suggested and I had originally written a much longer reply with some comments and questions, but apparently my forum session timed out during my deliberations and so that reply did not get saved onto the post. But, regardless, I have used much of what you suggested in my final route planning. So, thank you again, so much for taking the time to share your insights with me.
Jun 2nd, 2023, 09:01 AM
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also, I want to thank you for the thoughts that you provided in your reply to my post. This is EXACTLY the kind of feedback I was hoping for and has helped me tremendously in working out the details of this trip. It took me some time to think through everything that you suggested and I had originally written a much longer reply with some comments and questions, but apparently my forum session timed out during my deliberations and so that reply did not get saved onto the post. But, regardless, I have used much of what you suggested in my final route planning. So, thank you again, so much for taking the time to share your insights with me.
Jun 2nd, 2023, 10:35 AM
#29
I'm too lazy to compare your driving route in France with the 2023 Tour de France route. But the Tour will be in eastern France July 13-21. You should really check road closures if your dates overlap.
https://www.letour.fr/en/overall-route
And the route impacts lots of nearby roads, even if they aren't closed.
https://www.letour.fr/en/overall-route
And the route impacts lots of nearby roads, even if they aren't closed.
Last edited by Jean; Jun 2nd, 2023 at 10:39 AM.
Jun 2nd, 2023, 11:19 AM
#30
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All routes in the Mont Blanc area are scenic (Gd St-Bernard, Petit St-Bernard, Forclaz - Montets, Cormet de Roselend - Col des Saisies - Col des Aravis). Do just what matches best with your planning.
I suppose you realized that you must not necessarily start and end your round trip at Zurich. Munich and Milan Malpensa would be just equivalent.
But if Zurich is the most convenient flight destination with the best rental car offers, it's a good idea to choose Zurich.
I suppose you realized that you must not necessarily start and end your round trip at Zurich. Munich and Milan Malpensa would be just equivalent.
But if Zurich is the most convenient flight destination with the best rental car offers, it's a good idea to choose Zurich.
Jun 2nd, 2023, 12:33 PM
#31
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I'm too lazy to compare your driving route in France with the 2023 Tour de France route. But the Tour will be in eastern France July 13-21. You should really check road closures if your dates overlap.
https://www.letour.fr/en/overall-route
And the route impacts lots of nearby roads, even if they aren't closed.
https://www.letour.fr/en/overall-route
And the route impacts lots of nearby roads, even if they aren't closed.
Jun 2nd, 2023, 12:40 PM
#32
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All routes in the Mont Blanc area are scenic (Gd St-Bernard, Petit St-Bernard, Forclaz - Montets, Cormet de Roselend - Col des Saisies - Col des Aravis). Do just what matches best with your planning.
I suppose you realized that you must not necessarily start and end your round trip at Zurich. Munich and Milan Malpensa would be just equivalent.
But if Zurich is the most convenient flight destination with the best rental car offers, it's a good idea to choose Zurich.
I suppose you realized that you must not necessarily start and end your round trip at Zurich. Munich and Milan Malpensa would be just equivalent.
But if Zurich is the most convenient flight destination with the best rental car offers, it's a good idea to choose Zurich.
Jun 5th, 2023, 05:10 AM
#34
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did you mean San Bernardino Pass? I've read it's one of the smoothest pass drives over the Alps. Maybe you meant Stelvio Pass?
Jun 5th, 2023, 06:51 AM
#35
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Jun 5th, 2023, 07:12 AM
#36
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San Bernardino is a highway which crosses the mountains in a tunnel. But some 5 miles south of the tunnel, there are 4 "macro-hairpins" (much bigger radius than on other mountain roads) indeed.
The Eastern side of Stelvio has 44 hairpin curves.
Stellvio - Sta Maria: 35 hairpins
Sta Maria - Zernez - St. Moritz: 3 hairpins
Stelvio - Bormio: 28 hairpins
Bormio - Tirano - Lake Como: almost all motorway
Bormio - Livigno - Bernina - St. Moritz: 11 hairpins
St. Moritz - Maloja - Chiavenna - Lake Como: 11 hairpins
St. Moritz - Julier - Thusis - San Bernardino: 15 hairpins
Martigny - Tunnel du Gd St-Bernard - Aosta: 7 hairpins
Aosta - Petit St-Bernard - Bourg St-Maurice
- Annecy): 43 hairpins
The Eastern side of Stelvio has 44 hairpin curves.
Stellvio - Sta Maria: 35 hairpins
Sta Maria - Zernez - St. Moritz: 3 hairpins
Stelvio - Bormio: 28 hairpins
Bormio - Tirano - Lake Como: almost all motorway
Bormio - Livigno - Bernina - St. Moritz: 11 hairpins
St. Moritz - Maloja - Chiavenna - Lake Como: 11 hairpins
St. Moritz - Julier - Thusis - San Bernardino: 15 hairpins
Martigny - Tunnel du Gd St-Bernard - Aosta: 7 hairpins
Aosta - Petit St-Bernard - Bourg St-Maurice
- Annecy): 43 hairpinsLast edited by neckervd; Jun 5th, 2023 at 07:18 AM.
Jun 5th, 2023, 09:57 AM
#37
I drove over the Grand Saint Bernard (what some people call the San Bernardino) pass twice and loved it both times. It is particularly impressive to stop up in the clouds where the Saint Bernard dog farm is on the border. (Do some people call these dogs San Bernardinos?)
Jun 6th, 2023, 01:51 AM
#39
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In French:
Grand Saint Bernard (Pass and tunnel): Martigny (Valais) - Aoste (Vallée d'Aoste)
Saint Bernardin (Pass and tunnel): Thusis (Grisons) - Bellinzone (Tessin)
in Italian:
Gran San Bernardo: Martigny (Vallese) - Aosta (Valle d'Aosta)
San Bernardino: Tosanna (Grigioni) - Bellinzona (Ticino)
in German:
Grosser St. Bernard: Martinach (Wallis) - Aosta (Aostatal)
Sankt Bernhardin: Thusis (Graubünden) - Bellenz (Tessin)
Grand Saint Bernard (Pass and tunnel): Martigny (Valais) - Aoste (Vallée d'Aoste)
Saint Bernardin (Pass and tunnel): Thusis (Grisons) - Bellinzone (Tessin)
in Italian:
Gran San Bernardo: Martigny (Vallese) - Aosta (Valle d'Aosta)
San Bernardino: Tosanna (Grigioni) - Bellinzona (Ticino)
in German:
Grosser St. Bernard: Martinach (Wallis) - Aosta (Aostatal)
Sankt Bernhardin: Thusis (Graubünden) - Bellenz (Tessin)
