Driving manual vehicle in europe
Jan 18th, 2007, 01:48 AM
#41
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trip...
thank you for getting back to us with this information. i think that you should give us a good trip report during or after your travels. there are obviously a lot of incorrect perceptions of this type of travel on this board. the underlying assumption seems to be that 'it's just not done'.
i have met many camping travellers around europe and envy the freedom they have. i have done a few tent camping trips around europe many years ago and would like to some day take a caravan trip. you will experience more of the real europe and meet more real people than you possibly would during a typical london, paris, rome, florence, etc trip of museums and big city cafes.
i'm glad that you remained posting here despite the many ignorant and condescending responses that you received. your recent post showed that this is not a 'half baked' idea and some good trip reports will show us what good experiences you can have on a trip like this. you may even give some people some ideas.
thank you for getting back to us with this information. i think that you should give us a good trip report during or after your travels. there are obviously a lot of incorrect perceptions of this type of travel on this board. the underlying assumption seems to be that 'it's just not done'.
i have met many camping travellers around europe and envy the freedom they have. i have done a few tent camping trips around europe many years ago and would like to some day take a caravan trip. you will experience more of the real europe and meet more real people than you possibly would during a typical london, paris, rome, florence, etc trip of museums and big city cafes.
i'm glad that you remained posting here despite the many ignorant and condescending responses that you received. your recent post showed that this is not a 'half baked' idea and some good trip reports will show us what good experiences you can have on a trip like this. you may even give some people some ideas.
Jan 18th, 2007, 02:34 AM
#42
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Thanks again to all the posters for the encouraging and the not so encouraging comments.They are all much apreciatted 
Any further comments regarding driving conditions in france italy germany etc would be greatly appreciatted.
Would like to hear from all posters with driving experiences both good and bad on the continent.
Trip
Any further comments regarding driving conditions in france italy germany etc would be greatly appreciatted.
Would like to hear from all posters with driving experiences both good and bad on the continent.
Trip
Jan 18th, 2007, 02:42 AM
#43
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Germany - motorways good - but somewhat overcrowded and people do tend to drive fast and somewhat up your ass. National roads - ie non motorways - usually very good. Parking is usually not a huge problem in Germany
France - motorways good - tolls can be expensive . National roads - ie non motorways - usually very good. Parking can be a problem in cities.
Italy - expect the unexpected! National roads can be very narrow. Don't be embarrassed driving slowly - all too often I have been stuck behind Italian in Ireland driving camper vans down the middle of narrow roads (or on the wrong side) at 25kms per hour. Parking can be a problem in cities.
France - motorways good - tolls can be expensive . National roads - ie non motorways - usually very good. Parking can be a problem in cities.
Italy - expect the unexpected! National roads can be very narrow. Don't be embarrassed driving slowly - all too often I have been stuck behind Italian in Ireland driving camper vans down the middle of narrow roads (or on the wrong side) at 25kms per hour. Parking can be a problem in cities.
Jan 18th, 2007, 02:44 AM
#44
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Thanks for your comments Walkin.
It has suprised me no end that very few people outside of Europe engage in this sort of travel around the continent. Though I guess from the posts here, that a driving holiday is not eveyones idea of a holiday, and thats fair enough.
I have found a couple of good Motorhome forums and the people are very helpful. Also the quality of the campsites in europe seem to be generally better equipped than what I have experienced in oz and when i travelled around the US. It also seems very few allow permanent residents which would make a difference i guess.
I will certainly document my travels and let the posters here who are interested know what to expect.
Trip
It has suprised me no end that very few people outside of Europe engage in this sort of travel around the continent. Though I guess from the posts here, that a driving holiday is not eveyones idea of a holiday, and thats fair enough.
I have found a couple of good Motorhome forums and the people are very helpful. Also the quality of the campsites in europe seem to be generally better equipped than what I have experienced in oz and when i travelled around the US. It also seems very few allow permanent residents which would make a difference i guess.
I will certainly document my travels and let the posters here who are interested know what to expect.
Trip
Jan 18th, 2007, 04:25 AM
#45
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Having just returned from these countries on Sunday. I will not list all the reasons you should not rent an RV, but 1st - rent an automatic for your first trip, 2nd get good road maps. Have drived a straight shift through Europe 25+ times and I feel you will not have a good trip if you try to learn the navigation signs, parking rules and learn to shift at the same time. Remember European are very trained drivers and when they can, go really fast.
Jan 18th, 2007, 06:21 AM
#46
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Hi trip,
>Any further comments regarding driving conditions in france italy germany etc would be greatly appreciatted.
I think that you will find it rather easy to drive in France.
The roads are in good repair and well marked.
As you approach roundabouts there are signs showing where the different spokes go.
If there are two lanes approaching the roundabout, the right one is for people making an immediate right turn.
I have found www.mappy.com and www.viamichelin.com extremely helpful in route planning.
If you go to full zoom, you will see where the road jogs, splits, reverses, etc.
Also, the map function at www.google.com can be quite helpful.
Are you planning on using a GPS?
>Any further comments regarding driving conditions in france italy germany etc would be greatly appreciatted.
I think that you will find it rather easy to drive in France.
The roads are in good repair and well marked.
As you approach roundabouts there are signs showing where the different spokes go.
If there are two lanes approaching the roundabout, the right one is for people making an immediate right turn.
I have found www.mappy.com and www.viamichelin.com extremely helpful in route planning.
If you go to full zoom, you will see where the road jogs, splits, reverses, etc.
Also, the map function at www.google.com can be quite helpful.
Are you planning on using a GPS?
Jan 18th, 2007, 06:59 AM
#47
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A couple of items we noticed while driving in Germany:
1) Don't know what signage is like in Australia, but away from the Interstate Highways in the US we usually navigate by route numbers posted along the routes. In Germany, the route numbers on the secondary highways may or may not appear here and there, but navigation is more by the signs posted as you leave each town showing the names of the next couple of towns. So it pays to have someone looking at a map who can check the posted town names and ensure you're still on the correct route.
2) In older towns with narrow streets and often no sidewalks, finding signs can be an issue--they have to be tacked up wherever the highway people can find a spot. And that can be almost anywhere. Keep your eyes open and looke everywhere.
3) On two-lane roads in rural areas, we found a lot of spots where passing is permitted but appeared highly dangerous to us. Like on curves and and the up slopes of hills where you cannot see if a car is coming the other way at high speed. My theory is that these "passing" zones are left over from the days when you would frequently get stuck behind a honey bucket being pulled by a cow at about 1 kph. You could zip around such a rig in about 1/10 of a second, so it wasn't quite as dangerous as trying to pass another motor vehicle going 40 or 50 kph.
But overall, driving in Germany is fine. Well designed and maintained roads and most people are pretty good drivers.
1) Don't know what signage is like in Australia, but away from the Interstate Highways in the US we usually navigate by route numbers posted along the routes. In Germany, the route numbers on the secondary highways may or may not appear here and there, but navigation is more by the signs posted as you leave each town showing the names of the next couple of towns. So it pays to have someone looking at a map who can check the posted town names and ensure you're still on the correct route.
2) In older towns with narrow streets and often no sidewalks, finding signs can be an issue--they have to be tacked up wherever the highway people can find a spot. And that can be almost anywhere. Keep your eyes open and looke everywhere.
3) On two-lane roads in rural areas, we found a lot of spots where passing is permitted but appeared highly dangerous to us. Like on curves and and the up slopes of hills where you cannot see if a car is coming the other way at high speed. My theory is that these "passing" zones are left over from the days when you would frequently get stuck behind a honey bucket being pulled by a cow at about 1 kph. You could zip around such a rig in about 1/10 of a second, so it wasn't quite as dangerous as trying to pass another motor vehicle going 40 or 50 kph.
But overall, driving in Germany is fine. Well designed and maintained roads and most people are pretty good drivers.
Jan 18th, 2007, 07:19 AM
#49
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“Any further comments regarding driving conditions in france italy germany etc would be greatly appreciated”
• I would think driving a motorhome in Rome would be a form of suicide. (Or maybe just low comedy.)
• I would avoid the twisting roads of Italy’s Ligurian coast. (Would your vehicle even fit?)
• What kind of gas mileage are we talking about here? 5 miles to the gallon? At what, $5 or $6 per gallon? (Sorry, I’m not metric.) I take it you have deep pockets. And boundless optimism.
• I would think driving a motorhome in Rome would be a form of suicide. (Or maybe just low comedy.)
• I would avoid the twisting roads of Italy’s Ligurian coast. (Would your vehicle even fit?)
• What kind of gas mileage are we talking about here? 5 miles to the gallon? At what, $5 or $6 per gallon? (Sorry, I’m not metric.) I take it you have deep pockets. And boundless optimism.
Jan 18th, 2007, 07:55 AM
#50
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What is the problem here?
People drive motorhomes every day on every road imaginable in Europe. Yes the petrol is expensive. Yes, some of the roads are narrow - so what. Where's your sense of adventure.
I have driven a camper van around europe on my wrong side of the road and lived to tell the tale. I have also hauled ass in a 40ft monster around the grand canyon and vegas and lived.
And as my name suggests - I'm a chick.
The motor homes here are about the same size as a big american car.
People drive motorhomes every day on every road imaginable in Europe. Yes the petrol is expensive. Yes, some of the roads are narrow - so what. Where's your sense of adventure.
I have driven a camper van around europe on my wrong side of the road and lived to tell the tale. I have also hauled ass in a 40ft monster around the grand canyon and vegas and lived.
And as my name suggests - I'm a chick.
The motor homes here are about the same size as a big american car.
Jan 18th, 2007, 10:37 AM
#51
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I too find it incredible there are so many negative responses on trip2006's plan. One only needs to see all the caravans and motorhomes heading south on the French autoroutes in July and August to know this is a very popular way to travel in Europe.
Some of my best holidays in Europe have been camping trips. One included France, Andorra, Spain, France again, Italy, Austria, Germany, and Belgium before returning to England. Admittedly it was years ago, and in a Porsche 911 rather than a camper van, but I had a great time.
Many campsites are near large cities, and indeed have public transport nearby. Some are very luxurious, with restaurants, swimming pools and laundrettes. Suggest while in the UK you look for a good camping and caravanning guide which lists the various campsites and their amenities. I used to use one called, I think, "Europa Camping and Caravanning" but I can't find it on Amazon, so perhaps I got the title wrong. The Automobile Association (AA) publishes a good guide.
Have a wonderful trip.
Some of my best holidays in Europe have been camping trips. One included France, Andorra, Spain, France again, Italy, Austria, Germany, and Belgium before returning to England. Admittedly it was years ago, and in a Porsche 911 rather than a camper van, but I had a great time.
Many campsites are near large cities, and indeed have public transport nearby. Some are very luxurious, with restaurants, swimming pools and laundrettes. Suggest while in the UK you look for a good camping and caravanning guide which lists the various campsites and their amenities. I used to use one called, I think, "Europa Camping and Caravanning" but I can't find it on Amazon, so perhaps I got the title wrong. The Automobile Association (AA) publishes a good guide.
Have a wonderful trip.
Jan 18th, 2007, 04:22 PM
#52
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"Through Mcrent in Frankfurt you can take the vehicle into Poland, Hungary, Czech republic and Bulgaria. They do not allow any of the balkan countries or ex soviet bloc."
There's a contradiction in those two sentences, since all the listed permitted countries were in the Soviet bloc, and Bulgaria is often conswidered part of the Balkans. So doublecheck the rental agency's information.
I'm not crazy about campsites in Europe compared to public campsites in the States, but instead of taking a motor home, I would pick up cheap camping equipment and camp through Europe. You'll save on fuel, on the difference between a car rental and a camper, and would still save on meals. But this assumes that you are familiar with car camping and that setting up and taking down a site is not something that you would resent as the days go by.
There's a contradiction in those two sentences, since all the listed permitted countries were in the Soviet bloc, and Bulgaria is often conswidered part of the Balkans. So doublecheck the rental agency's information.
I'm not crazy about campsites in Europe compared to public campsites in the States, but instead of taking a motor home, I would pick up cheap camping equipment and camp through Europe. You'll save on fuel, on the difference between a car rental and a camper, and would still save on meals. But this assumes that you are familiar with car camping and that setting up and taking down a site is not something that you would resent as the days go by.
Jan 18th, 2007, 05:47 PM
#54
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Michael,
I have already posted regarding my mistake re: soviet bloc balkan countries. That was my mistake not the hire company it was a generalization given by the local agent. Ignorance on both our parts.
Here is the actual condition statement off the website.
"Journeys abroad within Europe are permitted. Journeys to countries outside of Europe are subject to the prior approval of the Rental Firm. Journeys to areas affected by war or crisis are prohibited."
As i stated in my earlier post, I was only interested in Poland Czech Republic and Hungary, which they said were ok. When i was researching there were a few motorhome companies which did not allow Poland or Hungary. Very few car hire places allow either of these countries.
Trip
I have already posted regarding my mistake re: soviet bloc balkan countries. That was my mistake not the hire company it was a generalization given by the local agent. Ignorance on both our parts.
Here is the actual condition statement off the website.
"Journeys abroad within Europe are permitted. Journeys to countries outside of Europe are subject to the prior approval of the Rental Firm. Journeys to areas affected by war or crisis are prohibited."
As i stated in my earlier post, I was only interested in Poland Czech Republic and Hungary, which they said were ok. When i was researching there were a few motorhome companies which did not allow Poland or Hungary. Very few car hire places allow either of these countries.
Trip
Jan 18th, 2007, 06:40 PM
#55
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There are times I thank my parents.
They MADE me learn to drive a manual transmission.
Sitting in my driveway right now is a manual transmission Saab. I love it!
If you think a manual transmission car does not have enough "pick up" that proably means you need to work on your shifting skills. The use of a manual transmission in a small car can overcome a lot of "horsepower" issues. I have driven small manual transmissions all over Europe with no "horsepower" issues.
That said, I am not running an education program for my middle aged friends who want to drive in Europe on my clutch! LOL!
I also would not start with a motorhome. If you want to go this route find someone nicer then me and learn to drive. Having driven pickup trucks and some other utility vechicles at a camp in a younger life) I know that the transmission characteristics are dramatically different and that probably is not the way to start. (Cars tend to be more forgiving, but if you miss 3rd and go to 1st in anything it's painful!) And in this case you aren't going to have a lot of "Pick up" My Dad drives an American motorhome. When you load that much weight on ANYTHING stepping on the gas doesn't get you the same reaction!
They MADE me learn to drive a manual transmission.
Sitting in my driveway right now is a manual transmission Saab. I love it!
If you think a manual transmission car does not have enough "pick up" that proably means you need to work on your shifting skills. The use of a manual transmission in a small car can overcome a lot of "horsepower" issues. I have driven small manual transmissions all over Europe with no "horsepower" issues.
That said, I am not running an education program for my middle aged friends who want to drive in Europe on my clutch! LOL!
I also would not start with a motorhome. If you want to go this route find someone nicer then me and learn to drive. Having driven pickup trucks and some other utility vechicles at a camp in a younger life) I know that the transmission characteristics are dramatically different and that probably is not the way to start. (Cars tend to be more forgiving, but if you miss 3rd and go to 1st in anything it's painful!) And in this case you aren't going to have a lot of "Pick up" My Dad drives an American motorhome. When you load that much weight on ANYTHING stepping on the gas doesn't get you the same reaction!
Jan 18th, 2007, 09:54 PM
#56
Can only speak for Switzerland, but we've got some beautiful campgrounds here.
Just wondering, how big is your motorhome? Could you provide us a link with a picture in it?
Since you are travelling out of season, you should have no problems finding space. I wouldn't recommend campgrounds in high season (mid July - mid August) because they are crammed full. People tend to stay a week + at these campgrounds.
Just wondering, how big is your motorhome? Could you provide us a link with a picture in it?
Since you are travelling out of season, you should have no problems finding space. I wouldn't recommend campgrounds in high season (mid July - mid August) because they are crammed full. People tend to stay a week + at these campgrounds.
Jan 18th, 2007, 10:44 PM
#57
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Here is a link to the motorhome
http://www.mcrent.de/en/fahrzeuge_pr...y_standard.jsp
Interested to hear what others think.
Trip
http://www.mcrent.de/en/fahrzeuge_pr...y_standard.jsp
Interested to hear what others think.
Trip
Jan 18th, 2007, 10:53 PM
#58
The roads of Europe are full of campervans in the summer, and they would not be if this sort of travel were nightmarish. I have some retired second cousins living near Amiens, and they go everywhere in their campervan, including driving up to Finland after receiving an invitation from some Finns that they had met in Spain. They have always said that it is an easy and fun way to stay on vacation three or four months a year without breaking the bank. The one and only thing they ever said that had to do because conditions were not ideal was to buy a satellite dish "because when it rains for a week and you're stuck inside all day, it really becomes important."
Jan 18th, 2007, 11:26 PM
#59
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Hi Trip2006,
You might also want to come over to the Slow Travel board, slowtrav.com, as there's a member there, TominVB, who is setting out on an extended motor home trip through Europe this year. You might be able to compare notes. (He's importing his RV from the states.)
I learned to drive on a stick shift, moved on to sports cars and am very content driving a standard transmission vehicle here in France. Mainly, automatics are driven by people with physical disabilities, though luxury cars often are sold with automatics, as well.
Starting from a traffic light on a hill is most easily done with use of the handbrake, engaging until the car is straining against the handbreak and then easing off the brake. That's the way it's taught here. No rolling backward and no "matchbox under the back wheel" training nonsense.
The idea of buying an old car with a manual transmission for practice is a good one, if you can find one where you live.
Happy roads.
You might also want to come over to the Slow Travel board, slowtrav.com, as there's a member there, TominVB, who is setting out on an extended motor home trip through Europe this year. You might be able to compare notes. (He's importing his RV from the states.)
I learned to drive on a stick shift, moved on to sports cars and am very content driving a standard transmission vehicle here in France. Mainly, automatics are driven by people with physical disabilities, though luxury cars often are sold with automatics, as well.
Starting from a traffic light on a hill is most easily done with use of the handbrake, engaging until the car is straining against the handbreak and then easing off the brake. That's the way it's taught here. No rolling backward and no "matchbox under the back wheel" training nonsense.
The idea of buying an old car with a manual transmission for practice is a good one, if you can find one where you live.
Happy roads.
