Stereotypes, stereotypes..

>>Europeans typicaly do not drink hard liquor before meals. (Many feel that hard liquor is not appropo to enjoying the meal, too much alcohol, tastes not compatible with food - and simply a different color.)

Reality: Hard liquor is much more popular in Europe than in North America. And usually hard liquor is drunken undiluted, in shots, before, after and during a meal. Because Europeans tend to drink spirits undiluted, Europe produces much better qualities of spirits, e.g. Cognac, Armagnac, Single Malt, Fruit Schnaps, Grappa (I admit that Californian wineries have started to produce decent brandies, but still no comparison to the sheer quantity of high-quality spirits which are produced in Europe).

For apéritif, you have an extremely wide choice of beverages which are all popular in Europe:

- Sparkling wine or Champagne.
- Wine or sparkling wine cocktails, e.g. Kir and Kir Royal (please do not make Felix Kir a fag by writing "Kir Royale").
- Fortified wine like sherry, port or French muscat.
- Bitters like Campari, Suze...
- Fruit liqueurs like Crème de Cassis, Crème de Framboises, de Mure, des Myrtilles...
- Liquorice liqueurs like Pastis, Absinth..
- Vermouth wine like Martini, Noilly Prat, Cinzano.. (In Europe, Martini is NOT a cocktail, it is a fortified vermouth wine which is served straight on the rocks - red, white or extra dry white.)
- Regional specialities like Pineau (Charente), Pommeau (Bretagne)..
- Spirits.
- Cocktails. Cocktails are still not common in French restaurants. Often, the restaurant will serve nothing but "Americano" (kind of Manhattan cocktail).

>>>Hard liquor is so expensive because each country wants to promote it's local products (usually wine or beer) so there are huge taxes on hard liquor.

Reality: Taxes are irrelevant. In a grocery store, you get a bottle of simple grain spirit for 4€ maximum - including taxes. Within the European Union, all countries are considered homeland and all taxes are the same. Foreign spirits have the same price as domestic spirits (in France, a bottle of whisky is as much as a bottle of cognac). In restaurants and bars, however, spirits are a good source for revenue and therefore, they are expensive.

BTW, a shot of decent whisky in a British pub costs usually 6 GBP, and I do not consider that cheap - especially since a whole bottle costs just 30 GBP in a store.

If you really want cocktails such as are served in the United States, your best bet is to look for the words "bar américain" on the awning or window of the establishment. This is the French name for "cocktail bar."

Naturally, you will also often see the word "cocktails" on the façade as well.

BTW, a shot of decent whisky in a British pub costs usually 6 GBP,>>>

Does it hell.

CW - likes booze. Dislikes cobblers.

"a whole bottle costs just 30 GBP in a store."

Bloody Hell. One born every minute. Or are you a member of the 'Keep Mohammed Al Fayed in Business because no-one wants to buy anything from him' club?

A litre bottle of Bells (best selling Scotch in Scotland in my day) in my local Sainsbury's is £12.

Just a little sideline incident which happens all day everyday in the 'saving on hooch' dilema when going on holiday -
There is a huge tax on spirits brought in to the country when travelling to - let's say the Comoros Islands or Mauritius. But not so much on wine.
What you do is get a cheap "Chateau le Carboard" and drain it into the sink. Then buy 2 bottles of your favourite Scotch ( in my case Irish whisky) and get it into the empty silver thing inside the box.
Pass through customs on a breeze - sell half of it to the locals for quite a bit. Enjoy your holiday!

"Within the European Union, all countries are considered homeland and all taxes are the same".

Taxes vary from 20 to 40% from one European country to the other. I live near the Spanish border and spirits are definitely cheaper in Spain.

"Foreign spirits have the same price as domestic spirits (in France, a bottle of whisky is as much as a bottle of cognac)".
It depends on the whisky. The cheapest whisky you can buy in France is approx. €10 for a 75cl bottle. The same bottle will be €6 or 7 in Spain.

BTW, a shot of decent whisky in a British pub costs usually 6 GBP, and I do not consider that cheap - especially since a whole bottle costs just 30 GBP in a store.

That's not true at all! I single is £2-4...unless you are buying something very esoteric. And bottles as mentioned start at about £12, with single malts from £20 (or less)
On a different point, you can buy a bottle of Bombay Saphire gin for €11 in the supermarket in Italy...

Absolutely on the price in the UK. A decent malt in my local costs £2.70- £3 a nip. And I should know!

Oh, Pvoyageuse, you can get much cheaper whisky than that. Even at Monoprix, I can get a liter of Scotch (bad stuff for mixing with cola or other thing) for only 10€.

Meanwhile, cognac is more along the lines of 18€ for a 70cl bottle.

Meanwhile, I am wondering what the size of a "shot" of whisky is in the UK. In France, it is 4cl.

I looked it up, Kerouac. A "shot" in the U.K. is 25ml. In the States there is no universal definition of "shot", except in Utah, where it is defined as 1.5 ounces (44.36ml). A shot in the rest of the States ranges between 1.25 and 1.5 ounces, depending on the honesty/generosity or the bartender.

The Brits are really stingy with their booze!

>I looked it up, Kerouac. A "shot" in the U.K. is 25ml.<

Not universally. In many pubs 35ml is the measure.

In scotchland perhaps (the home of the quarter gill house).

Down south where there are no penguins or silly hairy cows 25ml is standard.

But I've never paid more than a couple of quid for a nip.

Actually, now I'm thinking that a shot of hard liquor in France is only 2cl but it is 4cl for the various apéritifs like Martini or Suze.

Not going out tonight to take a look, though.

You're right I think.

I remember getting a sixth of a gill measure once. Never seen a more depressing looking drink in my life.

Buckfast tastes of wet dog and regret. That must be more depressing.

This thread is really fun.

Having done a quick web research, I found the following retail prices for Glenmorangie whisky, 10 years old, standard cask, 0.7 liters:

UK: 22.50-27.50 GBP (= 25.12-30.70 €)
Germany: 31.30-38.50 €
France: 34.99-41.99 €
Spain: 28.90-36.27 €
Switzerland: 57.95-59.00 CHF (37.67-38.99 €)
USA: 34.95-55.95 $(23.80-38.13 €) + sales tax

Same relation applies for Cognac. E.g. Courvoisier V.S.O.P. 0,7 liters:
Germany: 24.70-27.50 €
France: 33.20 €

The UK price is only low since the British Pound has been devaluated by the financial crisis.

So, Aard, aren't you glad you asked???

>Cholmondley_Warner on Dec 15, 09 at 12:58pm
Buckfast tastes of wet dog and regret. That must be more depressing.<

It makes very good cheesecake.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...io/8097997.stm

I have no idea what wet dog tastes like but I'm now intrigued. Are there any laws I may fall foul of if I should attempt to lick any of the local canines?