Does Anyone know Why No Ice in europe?
Jul 24th, 2006 | 11:34 PM
#81
Joined: Feb 2003
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This thread just makes me laugh, because Americans (and I am one) are the only people I know who berate themeselves for being who they are.
One poster above said something like "Americans refuse to adapt to the local culture". Well, I live in Hong Kong, and the local culture is to spit in the street and pick your nose. Funny, I don't see any threads here about why us horrible Americans cannot adapt to the local culture in HOng Kong.....
Americans do not drink everything with ice. We don't drink orange juice with ice. Iced tea, if actually made properlay HAS to be made with ice, because you are suppose to brew fresh hot tea and then pour it over ice to make it into iced tea.
The poster above is absolutly correct that Coke is make to be drunk WITH ICE.
Air conditioning is not as prevelant in Europe simmply becuase most of the European climate does not require it. This past summer has been hot, and several recent summers have been hot, but in general, most of Europe is in fact cooler in the summer months than many US cities. Italy and Spain would be an exception, but places like the UK, Switzerland, Geramany, France and most other more northern countires would not. You simply do not need the air conditioning.
This also lends itself to the need for non-iced drinks. Finally, some Europeans believe that very cold drinks are not goood for digestion. Same with fizzy water.
One poster above said something like "Americans refuse to adapt to the local culture". Well, I live in Hong Kong, and the local culture is to spit in the street and pick your nose. Funny, I don't see any threads here about why us horrible Americans cannot adapt to the local culture in HOng Kong.....
Americans do not drink everything with ice. We don't drink orange juice with ice. Iced tea, if actually made properlay HAS to be made with ice, because you are suppose to brew fresh hot tea and then pour it over ice to make it into iced tea.
The poster above is absolutly correct that Coke is make to be drunk WITH ICE.
Air conditioning is not as prevelant in Europe simmply becuase most of the European climate does not require it. This past summer has been hot, and several recent summers have been hot, but in general, most of Europe is in fact cooler in the summer months than many US cities. Italy and Spain would be an exception, but places like the UK, Switzerland, Geramany, France and most other more northern countires would not. You simply do not need the air conditioning.
This also lends itself to the need for non-iced drinks. Finally, some Europeans believe that very cold drinks are not goood for digestion. Same with fizzy water.
Jul 25th, 2006 | 12:35 AM
#83
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 221
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To Susanteach, and others
“As for one of the posts above about the French "not requiring AC" or ice, EXCUSE ME, but wasn't it just a few summers ago that all of those elderly French people DIED due to a heatwave???”
I am a bit tired all these rants about the lack of refrigeration in Europe, especially from a nation, which, in proportion to its share of the world population, contributes the most to global warming (of course it’s going to get even worse with the emergence of China, India, etc, as industrial powers…).
The US press gleefully reported about the deaths in France following the heat wave in 2003, and posters keep mentioning it, omitting to say it was a Europe-wide event, with 20 000 deaths in Italy, 15 000 in France and 8 000 in Spain, which also has a smaller population. But, naturally, France alone gets all the bashing…
On refrigerating old buildings, here is some comments, found on www.parlerparis.com, by Vivian Leeds, an American who has been living in Paris for a decade :.
“Health is not the only reason most apartments aren't air-conditioned. Remember that in the U.S. we build a house from the ground up and network the systems within the walls before the sheetrock is hung. Just imagine trying to knock through my 17th-century walls that are solid stone to install the conduits! And then when the system wasn't there as in "older" U.S. homes, units were invented so that you could just plug up the window and it would vent to the outside.
In Paris, most of the dwellings are apartment buildings, not single family homes, that are dictated by laws which govern the exterior of historical buildings and are run by their "copropriétés" (homeowners associations). External pipes or units are not allowed to be visible to the common areas. Individual units exist, but you must have a balcony or external space to put a machine that makes it work that doesn't infringe on your neighbors. More and more people have resorted to free standing units that run a large hose to a window propped open, but it takes up space and isn't very efficient.
Lack of air-conditioning is not only true for France, but is the case for all over Europe. Interestingly, in the reporting by the American press in 2003, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Greece, England and France all had record highs, but France had the highest temperatures for the longest period of time and therefore had more victims. While thousands died in the other countries, only France was criticized. (I call it "sibling rivalry" -- our two nations that actually have so much in common.)”
I don’t think the energy-intensive American model with 100% air conditioning, urban sprawl due to the predominance of single-family housing (hence the interminable suburbs and the nearly total dependence on cars) is a sustainable one and should be recommended to the rest of the world.
Some wiser Americans know that, but the great mass of the public seems unaware of it.
“As for one of the posts above about the French "not requiring AC" or ice, EXCUSE ME, but wasn't it just a few summers ago that all of those elderly French people DIED due to a heatwave???”
I am a bit tired all these rants about the lack of refrigeration in Europe, especially from a nation, which, in proportion to its share of the world population, contributes the most to global warming (of course it’s going to get even worse with the emergence of China, India, etc, as industrial powers…).
The US press gleefully reported about the deaths in France following the heat wave in 2003, and posters keep mentioning it, omitting to say it was a Europe-wide event, with 20 000 deaths in Italy, 15 000 in France and 8 000 in Spain, which also has a smaller population. But, naturally, France alone gets all the bashing…
On refrigerating old buildings, here is some comments, found on www.parlerparis.com, by Vivian Leeds, an American who has been living in Paris for a decade :.
“Health is not the only reason most apartments aren't air-conditioned. Remember that in the U.S. we build a house from the ground up and network the systems within the walls before the sheetrock is hung. Just imagine trying to knock through my 17th-century walls that are solid stone to install the conduits! And then when the system wasn't there as in "older" U.S. homes, units were invented so that you could just plug up the window and it would vent to the outside.
In Paris, most of the dwellings are apartment buildings, not single family homes, that are dictated by laws which govern the exterior of historical buildings and are run by their "copropriétés" (homeowners associations). External pipes or units are not allowed to be visible to the common areas. Individual units exist, but you must have a balcony or external space to put a machine that makes it work that doesn't infringe on your neighbors. More and more people have resorted to free standing units that run a large hose to a window propped open, but it takes up space and isn't very efficient.
Lack of air-conditioning is not only true for France, but is the case for all over Europe. Interestingly, in the reporting by the American press in 2003, Germany, Belgium, Italy, Greece, England and France all had record highs, but France had the highest temperatures for the longest period of time and therefore had more victims. While thousands died in the other countries, only France was criticized. (I call it "sibling rivalry" -- our two nations that actually have so much in common.)”
I don’t think the energy-intensive American model with 100% air conditioning, urban sprawl due to the predominance of single-family housing (hence the interminable suburbs and the nearly total dependence on cars) is a sustainable one and should be recommended to the rest of the world.
Some wiser Americans know that, but the great mass of the public seems unaware of it.
Jul 25th, 2006 | 01:39 AM
#85
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,585
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I worked in New England in a building where one wall was entirely made up of windows.
The air conditioning made the place like a fridge, but when it broke down, it was like sitting in a sauna.
One weekend, we visited one of those heritage sites where 18th century buildings had been brought and re-erected.
It was a hot summer day and we went into the meeing house.
It had stone walls several feet thick and small windows.
It was beautifully cool.
In Italy, they have heavy shutters that keep out the daytime heat.
Sitting here in heatwave Britain, I wish that our architects could learn a few lessons.
The air conditioning made the place like a fridge, but when it broke down, it was like sitting in a sauna.
One weekend, we visited one of those heritage sites where 18th century buildings had been brought and re-erected.
It was a hot summer day and we went into the meeing house.
It had stone walls several feet thick and small windows.
It was beautifully cool.
In Italy, they have heavy shutters that keep out the daytime heat.
Sitting here in heatwave Britain, I wish that our architects could learn a few lessons.
Jul 25th, 2006 | 02:44 AM
#87
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 5,950
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I grew up calling washcloths "wash rags" & also dishcloths were "dish rags."
I never noticed the American press <b>gleefully</b> reporting the tragic deaths in France or elsewhere in Europe. That's taking quite a bit of dramatic license.
I never noticed the American press <b>gleefully</b> reporting the tragic deaths in France or elsewhere in Europe. That's taking quite a bit of dramatic license.
Jul 25th, 2006 | 03:23 AM
#88
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,876
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They don't value cold drinks. I don't either. It could also be very much an economic AND, I will add, conservation of energy thing. It costs money to pay for frozen water and takes valuable power plant output. Europeans are SO much more energy conservation minded. We could take a BIG lesson from them, including our love of expensive and wasteful packaging of products.
Jul 25th, 2006 | 04:28 AM
#90
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 2,121
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Europeans care very little about energy conservation. They claim to worry about the energy costs of A/C, but they overheat their buildings in winter to oven temperatures without blinking an eye. And they tend to leave doors and windows open even when buildings are being heated or cooled, thus throwing energy literally out the window.
They also spend an awful lot of time driving cars for people who supposedly care about wasted energy.
The reality is that Europeans in general have absolutely no clue when it comes to anything having to do with heat. The only exceptions are in the extreme south—where, incidentally, A/C is also quite common.
They also spend an awful lot of time driving cars for people who supposedly care about wasted energy.
The reality is that Europeans in general have absolutely no clue when it comes to anything having to do with heat. The only exceptions are in the extreme south—where, incidentally, A/C is also quite common.
Jul 25th, 2006 | 04:36 AM
#91
Joined: Feb 2003
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It has been suggested by other posters that we can alter core temperature in a substantial way by the ingestion of either hot or cold substances. It's also been suggested that sweating can be induced by the temperature of ingested drinks.
Yet if this were true ordinary ingestion and digestion would play havoc with our physiology, which is designed to operate properly at a rather narrow temperature range. The temperature of one's pee would start varying with the temperature of one's ingested drinks. I've never measured the temperature of my pee after drinking, variously, coke without ice, coke with ice, or hot tea (for some reason, the conduction of such experiments has not figured prominently in my travel research
) but somehow I don't think it varies. (A slightly less messy experiment would involve taking one's temperature, - and note one's temperature cannot be accurately measured by oral thermometer immediately after drinking hot or cold drinks.)There is a way to take it, of course. Don't go there.....
And while I've drunk any amount of hot cups of tea outdoors on cold February days, alas, this has not stopped heat loss through my extremities, let alone induced me to start sweating. (Running for the bus, on the other hand, has worked wonders in the sweating department, even in February).
Ice baths, such as are used in emergency medical scenarios, involve conducting heat away from the entire surface of the body to ice which is in the external environment. The biophysics cannot be but quite different from ingesting tiny (1 cup or less) amounts of ice, and which in any case won't be absorbed into the bloodstream as ice but as the resulting water.
What does seem to matter is keeping one's natural thirst slaked, with whatsoever temperature of water. I say 'natural thirst' because trying to second-guess one's kidneys as to what constitutes adequate hydration is pointless and even possibly dangerous (as when someone drinks too much - yes! it's possible!) water.
And what does matter is ingesting a sufficient number of calories if one is living mainly in unheated environments.
Meanwhile, who knows why markets behave the way they do. Why do some markets like their coffee made from such and such a species of bean, or roasted to such and such a degree. Why are some fashions ephemeral, and others more long-lasting?
Fun question, and I've enjoyed the thread.
Yet if this were true ordinary ingestion and digestion would play havoc with our physiology, which is designed to operate properly at a rather narrow temperature range. The temperature of one's pee would start varying with the temperature of one's ingested drinks. I've never measured the temperature of my pee after drinking, variously, coke without ice, coke with ice, or hot tea (for some reason, the conduction of such experiments has not figured prominently in my travel research
) but somehow I don't think it varies. (A slightly less messy experiment would involve taking one's temperature, - and note one's temperature cannot be accurately measured by oral thermometer immediately after drinking hot or cold drinks.)There is a way to take it, of course. Don't go there..... And while I've drunk any amount of hot cups of tea outdoors on cold February days, alas, this has not stopped heat loss through my extremities, let alone induced me to start sweating. (Running for the bus, on the other hand, has worked wonders in the sweating department, even in February).
Ice baths, such as are used in emergency medical scenarios, involve conducting heat away from the entire surface of the body to ice which is in the external environment. The biophysics cannot be but quite different from ingesting tiny (1 cup or less) amounts of ice, and which in any case won't be absorbed into the bloodstream as ice but as the resulting water.
What does seem to matter is keeping one's natural thirst slaked, with whatsoever temperature of water. I say 'natural thirst' because trying to second-guess one's kidneys as to what constitutes adequate hydration is pointless and even possibly dangerous (as when someone drinks too much - yes! it's possible!) water.
And what does matter is ingesting a sufficient number of calories if one is living mainly in unheated environments.
Meanwhile, who knows why markets behave the way they do. Why do some markets like their coffee made from such and such a species of bean, or roasted to such and such a degree. Why are some fashions ephemeral, and others more long-lasting?
Fun question, and I've enjoyed the thread.
Jul 25th, 2006 | 05:00 AM
#92
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,647
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Going in a slightly different direction.
It's been a hot summer in the USA and Europe. Often on the tv news in the USA they'll show zoo animals playing with big blocks of ice to cool them down. Look at the happy polar bear with his/her head on the ice block.
What do zoos in Europe do to keep animals comfortable in hot climates?
Maybe if the zoo animals are allowed ice, all the Americans should head to the zoo and get ice there.
And, yes, nothing worse than room temperature Coke.
It's been a hot summer in the USA and Europe. Often on the tv news in the USA they'll show zoo animals playing with big blocks of ice to cool them down. Look at the happy polar bear with his/her head on the ice block.
What do zoos in Europe do to keep animals comfortable in hot climates?
Maybe if the zoo animals are allowed ice, all the Americans should head to the zoo and get ice there.
And, yes, nothing worse than room temperature Coke.
Jul 25th, 2006 | 05:02 AM
#93
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,876
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Well gee Anthony. Then I guess it is only the hotels that care by having the "credit card" keys that also turn off your lights when you leave. And the note, if you are staying longer than a night or so, that if you want to hang up your towels it will save on laundry costs. And the surcharges added to packaging that require recycling. And the taxes on gasoline that have led to small fuel efficient cars.
Jul 25th, 2006 | 05:08 AM
#94
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,374
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Anthony, I think you have that the wrong way around. I find it odd that I need a sweater indoors in summer, and only short-sleeves indoors in winter, as is the case in the US.
As for the ice, I used to work in an expensive restaurant, and my boss used to say that if you need ice, the drink is not chilled enough. We would, of course, add ice if the customer asked for it, as is the case throughout Europe in my experience.
As for the ice, I used to work in an expensive restaurant, and my boss used to say that if you need ice, the drink is not chilled enough. We would, of course, add ice if the customer asked for it, as is the case throughout Europe in my experience.
Jul 25th, 2006 | 05:18 AM
#95
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,699
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> the locals wanted to be steamy hot in the Winter and freezing cold in the Summer. Very strange.<
But, oh so American.
Down here in GA, we have to keep the AC lower than we would like because of the humidity.
If the AC is set above 73, we get mildew.
But, oh so American.
Down here in GA, we have to keep the AC lower than we would like because of the humidity.
If the AC is set above 73, we get mildew.
Jul 25th, 2006 | 05:31 AM
#96
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 17,226
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Well, some of this may be cultural, but <b> an ice cold Coke <b> is the <font color="red"> official <font color="black"> way to drink a Coca-Cola.</font></font></b></b>
1910 - Right off the ice, Coca-Cola.
1931 - Get it here ice cold.
1935 - Taste is the lure in ice cold Coca-Cola.
<font color="red"> 1937 - Served here Ice Cold.
<font color="black"> 1045 - Got enough Coke on ice?
1959 - Relax refreshed with ice-cold Coca-Cola.
<font color="red"> Coke is supposed to be served ice cold - ON ice if possible!
</font></font></font>
1910 - Right off the ice, Coca-Cola.
1931 - Get it here ice cold.
1935 - Taste is the lure in ice cold Coca-Cola.
<font color="red"> 1937 - Served here Ice Cold.
<font color="black"> 1045 - Got enough Coke on ice?
1959 - Relax refreshed with ice-cold Coca-Cola.
<font color="red"> Coke is supposed to be served ice cold - ON ice if possible!
</font></font></font>
Jul 25th, 2006 | 06:31 AM
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
OK, regarding that idea of freezing cold in the summer and steamy hot in the winter -- here's what I don't get.
I can go into a place in the summer, naturally wearing light clothing including a short sleeve shirt. The thermostat is set for something like 68. I'm freezing cold.
I go to the same place in the dead of winter, with heavy clothes including a sweater and an outer coat and the thermostat is set at 75. I'm pouring sweat by the buckets.
Why is that? Couldn't they save energy and money and raise the temperatures a bit in summer and lower them a bit in winter? I'm invariably uncomfortably hot in many places in the winter due to the excessive heat, yet I nearly freeze in the summer in those same places.
I can go into a place in the summer, naturally wearing light clothing including a short sleeve shirt. The thermostat is set for something like 68. I'm freezing cold.
I go to the same place in the dead of winter, with heavy clothes including a sweater and an outer coat and the thermostat is set at 75. I'm pouring sweat by the buckets.
Why is that? Couldn't they save energy and money and raise the temperatures a bit in summer and lower them a bit in winter? I'm invariably uncomfortably hot in many places in the winter due to the excessive heat, yet I nearly freeze in the summer in those same places.
