Hi audere_est_facere
>Ira, the Leons chain isn't exactly what i would call decent dining. You might as well go to Flunch.<

Chacun à son goût, dear colleague.

However, your pleasant dinner came to about 50E, in keeping with my opinion that "40-50E pp is more than adequate for good dining".


My Lady Wife would have insisted that I lay off the cheese/dessert at least for 1/2 the time.

>I couldn't cope with the awful beer.<

"..'tis true, 'tis true 'tis pity,
And pity 'tis 'tis true".

It wasn't always so.

Back when Uncle Ira was young enough to have to sneak a beer, one could get very good locally brewed stuff at reasonable prices.

>"1 frisee salad,1 skate with butter and capers, 1 glass of wine".

Was that Ice or Roller?

Hi all,

Dinner last night at the Basil Press in Athens, GA.

One salad of Romaine lettuce with apples, walnuts, cranberries and a light mayonnaise. (The croutons were not very good.)

One grilled eggplant "Napoleon"* (eggplant, mozarella, prosciutto, marinara sauce)

One grilled salmon (farm raised, I think) with mashed potatoes and winter veg)

One GA wild caught shrimp over spinach fettucini (house made) in a corn and cream sauce.

One bottle Sauvignon from Sancerre (a small wine with little breeding, but we were pleased by its impertinence)

2 decaf.

Bill with tax and tip - $95 = 73E.

I think that a similar meal in Paris would have been (a) better at the same price or (b) slightly cheaper for the same quality.

The bread, of course, would be much better.


*Why is everything that consists of more than two layers called a Napoleon?

Bear in mind that a lot of that perceived cheapness/expense is to do with the fact that the dollar is worth about the same as two cowrie shells or a tin penny.

I imagine that $100 for dinner is quite a bit - but that's only fifty quid, which is sod-all.

Princess
Granted that the customer essentially pays the waiter/ess, they still have to buy the ingredients, fresh if it is a good restaurant. The butchers etc. must have to make a living, so how much does the farmer get?
They then have to pay for gas and/or electricity to cook the food and heat and light the restaurant. Add rent and local taxes and how much is left of that $20?
Perhaps they have a huge mark-up on wine.
Tis many moons since I ate in an Amererican restaurant so I forget what they charged for wine..

Hi J,

Restaurants make their money on alcohol, which is marked up about 2.5-3.5 the retail price.

Our local Ritz Carlton charges $15 for a glass of Kendall Jackson chardonnay, which retails for $11/bottle.

You might wish to wonder about the places that do an all-you-can-eat buffet for $6.95.

HINT: poor quality.

Josser:

1. I'm not Audere. In fact it's hard to think of a greater insult. Apart from anything else, Audere takes football seriously AND supports Spurs - which to anyone with half a brain is an obvious oxymoron

2. I've never, ever, criticised the beers you can get in America. Indeed I've gone out of my way to praise the extraordinary ease with which it's possible to find really good beer in the US. Indeed, it's a constant puzzle to find so much good beer in cafes and supermarket shelves while most of the stuff that's actually drunk I wouldn't water my garden with.

3. Nor do I have any problem with Americans' attitude to God. It's the anti-religious bigotry that substitutes for thought in Britain, and Britons' mindless dismissal of American spirituality as "fundamentalism" I can't get my head round.

4. But Audere is totally right about guns.

>..Audere is totally right about guns.<

You furriners don't unnerstan bout fararms here in the USA.

1. We uns have the constitooshn'l right to keep and bear arms.

2. We has ter proteck orselfs from crimnuls.

3. Huntin improves the breed.

4. We uns gets a kick outer killin defensless thangs.

Ira I would stay away from the wine list at that hotel! (or maybe you read the price wrong without your spectacles..just kidding!)

As a guideline, the general rule of thumb in the US is that the cost of a glass at a restaurant equals the price the restaurant paid for the bottle.

I was amazed to see Tuscan Ornellaia offered by the glass for $14 at a NYC restaurant the other night. I realize that is apropos of absolutley nothing here or anywhere else but thought I would mention it cause it so surprised me.

Josser - most places don't use "top quality" ingredients. They use cheap, and douse everything with sugar/corn syrup and salt to mask the taste...

Hi ek,

>..the general rule of thumb in the US is that the cost of a glass at a restaurant equals the price the restaurant paid for the bottle. <

Thank God that I live in a small town in rural GA.

If that were the case, we would vote to go dry again and brown bag it.

Around here, a glass of wine (4 pours per bottle) is about 1/2 the retail price of the bottle. (My friends in the business say that they get only about 15% discount from retail.)

The big money comes from spirits. (We only recently approved liquor by the drink.)

For spirits, the price of a 1-oz pour is about 5-5.5 x the retail price.

Ira I am not taking retail prices. Your KJ cost more than the bottle price, right?

A restaurant usually gets more than 4 pours a bottle. They calculate the pour wine in cents per ounce, by the way. Just some information not really germane to the rest of the thread....

3. Nor do I have any problem with Americans' attitude to God.>>>>>>

I suspect that God might though.

It seems to me that the American approach to Christianity is small minded, cruel and self serving.

I have yet to come across a "christian" in the US who isn't pro death penalty, anti-welfare and a flag waving xenophobe to boot.

The Jesus I read about in my bible (you know, the long haired hippy "turn the other cheak" "love thy neighbour" geezer) would have quite serious issues about what the yanks do in his name.

This pretty much nails what I'm on about (it's well worth a look):

http://www.landoverbaptist.org/

Audere - churchgoing hippy.

Hi ek,

>Your KJ cost more than the bottle price, right?<

My point was that that is the price the Ritz Carlton charges.

If you are not familiar with the chain, see http://tinyurl.com/qgpo

>A restaurant usually gets more than 4 pours a bottle. <

Agreed. I've been to the Big City, where they get 6 to the bottle. However, around here 4 is a standard pour.


Thank God, I'm a country boy.

i agree with audere. i do think, however, we tend to exaggerate the quality of beer that we drink in europe. bud and other bad beers ARE popular here (at least in the UK). however, if you do enjoy a good beer (fewer people have this appreciation now - virtually non-existent among the young) it is much easier and cheaper to get excellent beers as compared with the US.

'micro-breweries' in the US mostly produce syrupy, forcibly heavy, overly flavoured beers that seem to be a brutish attempt at creating the opposite of bud or other light beers. real ales have a subtlty missing from american micro-brews. the worst examples would be the 'winter warmer' type ales that punch you in the face with a heavy, syropy concoction of cinnamon, nutmeg, brown sugar, etc. vile.

US microbrews create too many novelty beers without understanding the basics of a good cask ale (which is another issue...their cask ales are not cask ales).

in the US, it is best to stick with a boring but 'can't go too wrong' beer like stella or becks. in fact, i would even prefer a basic bud or miller as it at least doesn't try too hard and is cheap. micro-brews are almost always a disappointment.

Ira;

And here all along I thought you were from Brooklyn.

That RC property looks lovely. Drink up, they may be charging outrageous prices for their wine but at least you are getting more than the 1/6 of the bottle that is the norm here. And I will concede that a jacket is probably the way to go at the bar.

....and i, as well, defend american things when they are unfairly criticised by either:
1. american europhiles who are experiencing personal issues with being american. or
2. overly proud, insular european types that cling to past glories.

'micro-brews' however, i cannot defend.

Talking of beers, I am a keen gardener and like most of my kind I hatesss sluggsss, precious.
I use slug pubs (well they die happy) and I've found that slugs really love the American version of Budweiser.
Canon Chasuble likes good beer, so the Budweiser is strictly for the slugs.

"I have yet to come across a "christian" in the US who isn't pro death penalty, anti-welfare and a flag waving xenophobe to boot."

Most Americans are pro capital punishment. So are most Britons. On this, if on few other issues, US politicians listen to their voters. Ours just lecture them - then watch the murder rate continue the growth it's shown since we abolished the death penalty.

I've yet to meet a single flag waving xenophobe in any mainstream US Catholic, Lutheran or Episcopalian church (no offence to anyone else: I've just never been to any other churches)

And far from being anti-welfare, most members of those congregations give time and money to plugging the many holes in the US welfare system that would shame people at any British St Mary's or Our Lady of Perpetual Succour.

And gobsmack any "let's be nice and rude about American Christians" Islingtonian.