otherchelebi

The Persians did not believe the Oracle!!!
Read Gore Vidal's "Creation"

In fact Frank should also read that book.

semiramis

For Frank:
who appears to believe that a scientific theory is just a wild unsubstantiated guess or irrational belief based on nothing.

>> A scientific theory is a well-substantiated explanation of some aspect of the natural world, based on knowledge that has been REPEATEDLY CONFIRMED THROUGH OBSERVATION AND EXPERIMENTATION. << (National Academy of Sciences)

annhig

<<annhig:
"Actually, I thought Genesis 5:5 said Adam lived 930 years.>>

cd - now you're just being picky.aa"

I did not post that>>

cd - I aopolgise - it was Continental_Drifter.

FrankS - you've done EXACTLY what I predicted - you fail utterly to explain how you can believe that parts of the bible are to be taken literally, but others are "impossible" [disproved by me upthread, I believe] What criteria are you applying?

cd

It's okay annhig, CD and cd are an awful lot alike

tomboy

"Does the Calvin College rowing team practice on the Lake of Fire?"

Now there's a stupid comment. Why don't you go play with matches?

vincenzo32951

Relax, tom. It was a joking reference to one of Frank's earlier posts.

Go play with matches? Witty repartee worthy of Churchill.

PalenQ

Calvin College is known as a bastion of conservative Dutch Reformed religious thinking in its divinity aspect but for students it acts as a pretty nice liberal arts college - Hope College is the Holland/Grand Rapids 'Dutch Country' foil of Calvin, being much more liberal in dogma - there are two Dutch Christian Churches in Holland/GR (Michigan) - the Hope college affiliated one is much more liberal thus so is Hope - another nice small liberal arts college.

Both can be quite conservative - my college roommate was from Zealand, MI - near Holland and one day the church minister was seen moving his grass on a Sunday and set off a huge scandal in the church.

In case of both Hope and Calvin though they are good schools - and really expensive - for wealthy students for the most part and mainly lilly white - they are still run by conservative religious groups.

But not all of Calvin's graduate ministers are conservative - my next door neighbor is a pastor in the Dutch Reformed Church and matriculated from Calvin - yet he is ultra liberal and has a bumper sticker on his car saying "And may God Bless the Rest of the World Too!" and he opposes right-wing freligious crackpots like Frank who would have a brand of Taliban law enforced on everyone.

In a previous thread Frank said that women who had abortions were murderers and so were the abortionists - nuff said.

PalenQ

"Actually, I thought Genesis 5:5 said Adam lived 930 years.>>

Whether it says 930 years or 1,000 years is meaningless - that anyone would believe that possible is the point and only someone blindly swallowing something would.

Nuff said - Adam living to be anywhere near 1,000 years old - my God who besides small kids may believe such garbage?

Frightening really.

Recently on Coronation Street - the long-running UK soap and one of the most popular shows always for decades - a character - Roy of Roy's Rolls (a cafe) retorted to someone who said she found the Lord to be a great consoling thing in her life after her husband was murdered - Roy retorted angrily about that being a bunch of nonsense and there was no God and criticized her for believing such nonsense - now that would have NEVER ever been on any popular broadcast channel TV show here - NEVER but it was in Britain - hat's off to the Brits for their rational thinking and permissiveness - do that here and the likes of Frank and the American Taliban would launch a boycott of the network, sponsors, actors, etc.

Thus Gordon R was rightly shocked with the clueless simply DUMB Yank's statement in the Scottish Parliament.

I am ashamed of our American Taliban and the power they have that is way way more than their numbers.

Continental_Drifter

PalenQ - Whether it says 930 years or 1,000 years is meaningless - that anyone would believe that possible is the point and only someone blindly swallowing something would.

My point precisely, but if he's going to believe the literal interpretation, I thought he might as well get it right.



And yes, CD and cd are much the same, but no offense taken.

PalenQ

My point precisely, but if he's going to believe the literal interpretation, I thought he might as well get it right.>

I agree - but maybe his version of the Bible says 1,000 years - there being many Bibles purporting to be the word of God with differing versions.

CounterClifton

As to the title question - IMO - not as many as it would seem. Coming from the rural central US and then living in the south, most I've known were church goers. But none that would react like this visitor in another country so ungraciously did. Not that many are anti-evolution while believing God creates all. Because "in God, all things are possible". Matthew 19 (all of it. Key and often ignored words of Christ Himself. Thus, I worry for those who place themselves first, when it comes to knowing all)

And really, as well, there are a lot of people who believe in the concept of creation who don't subscribe to these narrow (and often seemingly intentionally tortured*) readings of various Bible passages. I have no idea if they are counted among "creationists" or not.

For instance, not as many think Peter 3:8 was remotely an attempt to define the length of "God days". It doesn't even read that way. Therefore, the words "like" and "as" in various translation indicating it's an analogy to many readers... the sole reason for ever including those words. For some, it means that time spent with God is perfect and without a need for a measure of time. It goes by in an instant but is neverending. From what I can tell, exactly the opposite of people who get fix on the use of "1000" believe. Which, when read so differently, each by sincere believers (giving all benefit of doubt), entire trains of thought and belief on a 'mis-reading' (by one group or another,) if you're not inclined to discount the whole source out of hand), you're still bound to wind up out in <s>left</s> right field.

Likewise, the reading of "spread the word" has always been taken quite differently by various followers. So you have some that feel quite free to place their views to the forefront. And others who place love (and respect) of their fellow man ahead and demonstrate their love by example rather than through anger and derision.

Big world, lots of different types.

carolyn

Good post, Clifton.

alanRow

<i>one day the church minister was seen moving his grass on a Sunday and set off a huge scandal in the church.</i>

And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath: - Mark 2:27

CounterClifton

Thank you, carolyn.

FrankS

{Yawn}
My quote was 'almost 1000 years'(look up the post) I consider 930 almost 1000 in this case

cd
Yes, Christ is in Heaven

alan,
That minister violated a practice he himself set as a standard for the his Church, Im not surprised his Church reacted.

Most fine universities were founded by Christians. Ivy League schools like Yale, Harvard and Princeton were founded by Calvinists like myself and the OPs offender. You just sound wicked and intolerant when you insult him. However, by your responses you do confirm the Calvinist belief of Total Depravity(the T in TULIP) to the OPs offender

btw: I dont consider Hope College a good college. After a visit we found them lacking in many ways academically,mainly poor placement for grad school programs. We ignored their unsolicited yet substantial scholarship offer

FrankS

The so called offender as a sound Presbyterian would find consolation for this ongoing thread from the aforemention doctrine of Total Depravity to explain your actions

The Canons of Dort come from an international synod of Reformed people held in Dordtrecht, Netherlands, in 1618-19

Main Point III parts of articles 1-3

"Human beings were originally created in the image of God and were furnished in mind with a true and sound knowledge of the Creator and things spiritual, in will and heart with righteousness, and in all emotions with purity; indeed, the whole human being was holy. However, rebelling against God at the devil’s instigation and by their own free will, they deprived themselves of these outstanding gifts. Rather, in their place they brought upon themselves blindness, terrible darkness, futility, and distortion of judgment in their minds; perversity, defiance, and hardness in their hearts and wills; and finally impurity in all their ­emotions...
Human beings brought forth children of the same nature as themselves after the fall. That is to say, being corrupt they brought forth corrupt children. The corruption spread, by God’s just judgment, from Adam and Eve to all their descendants—except for Christ alon..
Therefore, all people are conceived in sin and are born children of wrath, unfit for any saving good, inclined to evil, dead in their sins, and slaves to sin. Without the grace of the regenerating Holy Spirit they are neither willing nor able to return to God, to reform their distorted nature, or even to dispose themselves to such reform."

vincenzo32951

>>Whether it says 930 years or 1,000 years is meaningless<<

It does have a significant effect on Social Security benefits.

cd

Frank:
"cd
Yes, Christ is in Heaven"

Then you're saying upon death, Christians are in Heaven BEFORE the Last Day, the day of Judgement.

chartley

Dear Frank

We have a belief in my country, which is probably just as strong as yours. It is "When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging".

The problem is that you are dealing with a group of posters, myself included, for whom a statement about the doctrine of total depravity expressed by a seventeenth-century synod of reformed people in Dordtrecht has absolutely no relevance to their life in the world today.

It certainly has no relevance to any debate about the history of the earth when compared with a scientific theory which is consistent with our current understanding of physics, chemistry geology, botany, biology, history and archaeology.

FrankS

cd,
Im saying their souls are hidden in Christ until the Last Day, so they arent jumping cloud to cloud playing harps

chartly,
The reality of Total Depravity existed since Eden, it was only articulated in the above at Dorht. Since the Garden there have been many attempts to counter this truth, ALL have failed. I have a long list of disproven GrecoRoman theories from the foremost scientists of the NT age that shared all the same hubris you have. Christianity survived, they are forgotten. Rest assured...Evolution will share that fate