The Italian public radio reported yesterday that two Japanese tourists were charged 425$ for a dinner based on pizza, pasta, fish and a bottle of wine (Brunello). This happened at the restaurant "Mondo Nuovo" in Venice. The owner of the restaurant said that the meal was wonderful and that " you know... in Venice everything is more expensive than in other parts of Italy"..... <BR>

Anywhere in the world, "caveat emptor". <BR>

I don't know why the Japanese are the target for these sorts of things but the same thing happens in SF where they are charged $75 for a sweatshirt. The city was doing an investigation into this last summer after a report in the Cronicle. I guess it's the language problem and that they are identifiable as tourists. It would be interesting to hear others' thoughts on this. It really is a shame though. In the long run, Venice will be the worse for this restaurant and they need to start patroling their own. <BR>

From time to time Italian media report about amazing bills paid in Venice by <BR>tourists. Venice, along with Florence, is probably one of the most expensive places to visit in Italy . The cities are unique and hotel and restaurant owners know that they can ask almost what they want for their services. <BR>I think that some restaurants and shops are just "cut" for the foreign tourists and I try to avoid them (in Italy as well as abroad). The best thing is to go where locals go, to eat and shop where locals do. <BR>Regarding the Japaneses, Kam, they are usually associated with a strong currency here in Italy (most of them are reported to come to Italy to do expensive shopping in Prada and Gucci boutiques), and this may stimulate not very honest restaurant and shop owners to charge their services very much when it comes to Japanese people. <BR>

Unfortunately this doesn't surprise me at all. On my first trip to Venice I ate a meal in a restaurant close to the Santa Lucia train station and ended up with a $50 bill for fish, soda, and 2 or 3 side dishes. <BR> <BR>I learned from that experience and can summarize my experiences so: <BR> <BR>If you want to eat give yourself plenty of time to find a decently priced restaurant. When near the station I usually would walk perhaps 5-700 meters down the main drag leading out, over the first bridge and a bit farther. When you see hardware stores and such it's time to look around. In this area you will see menus for prices ranging from 16,000 lira to 30,000 lira ($10 to $19) or so. Good food too, though wine is extra. <BR> <BR>If I didn't have much time before the train I'd pick up a small picnic from a grocery or a food shop near the station, then eat on the train. <BR> <BR>Another tip to reduce costs: Stay in Padua instead of Venice. Not only will you get a better hotel for much less money, but the restaurants are much cheaper and usually better. Padua is only 30 minutes from Venice by train. While you are there see the Arena chapel by Giotto) just south of the train station. There is NOTHING in Venice which is better! Giotto is one of the superstars of Italian art, and the chapel is his magnus opus. More so even than the St. Francis cycle which he did in Assisi (closed for restoration after an earthquake last year).

Can someone who speaks Italian tell me whether "Venice" actually means 'tourist trap'? <BR> <BR>Look out for people trying to short change you. They do this just about everywhere and don't seem to care whether you are Japanese or not. A Canadian couple I talked to on the train out of Venice said that even some guy in a church tried it on them! <BR> <BR>I had someone in a restaurant try and double bill me for drinks and some guy at a fruit stall try and short change me, and then lost his temper when I pointed it out. <BR> <BR>Their technique goes something like this. You hand over a L50,000 note for a L7,000 purchase. They hand over all the small denominations first, then turn away for a few seconds. If, when they turn back, you are still there, they hand over the larger notes. If not (because you have just assummed that all the change is there and have wandered off) you end up paying L37,000 for a piece of pizza and a drink. <BR> <BR>Don't stay or eat in Venice. Go to Padua. They smile there! Just train into Venice and back each day. <BR>

No, Mike. "Venice" is italian for "day-tripper"! ;-) <BR> <BR>80,000 people live on the island and they see 10 million tourists a year, mostly day-trippers. The ones in the tourist district KNOW they will never see you again, so they can palm off bad food and trashy service on you! There are honorable exceptions. See the Rick Steves guide. As a rule of thumb, follow the main avenues until you see the stores that locals use, then eat at the restaurants in the area. These restaurants DO depend upon repeat business, so the food is good and prices fair!

Piero: <BR>Not knowing the vintage of the bottle of Brunello, a 1988 year bottle can cost 150,000 Lira, or so I have read. But, as we suspect, The rest of the Story? <BR>Bob K.

Bob: <BR>Yes, brunello can be very expensive, but still...how do you explain a <BR>750.000 liras cheque? <BR>Good advice to stay in Padua (just 20 minutes by train), or to sleep in Mestre (just 10 minutes by train). By the way, most Venetians now live in Mestre, easier to live in and less expensive! <BR>Anna <BR>

In general I agree with most of what has been said, however, Italian journalists are like all others around the world. "Believe half of what you see and none of what you hear". <BR> Mainly, as said by others, find the shops that the locals eat at. We had the second best pizza in Venice (the best was in a snall town, Feltre, in Bellunno province. But that's another story), by eating with the locals. <BR> Another scam, although nothing illegal, that I noticed was that if you follow the signs from the station to St Mark's square it seems to take you an incredibly long time and you seem to go around in circles. That's because you do. I think that the local tourist orginisation have set up the signs to take you around in circles to go past all the shops. On our last visit I had followed these signs for a while when I heard an Italian woman say to her companion "this way" and I followed them. Within a couple of minutes I was in the middle of the plaza.

have just returned from a 2 week tour of italy (yesterday). have not had a better vacation in my life, including hawaii and bermuda.never once felt that i was cheated or treated any different than any locals around me. you have to go prepared - and with your eyes open.a smile and a thank you goes a long way in any language. yes, people will take advantage of you if you are naive...but isn't that the case in nyc, or boston or chicago or la. italy is wonderful

A hearty second to Nancy's comments! I spent 1994 working in Italy, and the last 6 months of 1996 there also. <BR> <BR>Italy is wonderful. I was ripped precisely twice in 18 months. That restaurant in Venice and I had my pocket picked once in Rome. <BR> <BR>Neither time was it as bad as it could have been. It was a $50 lesson in Italian customs (ALWAYS understand what you are paying for), cheap at the price. The gypsies took my cash but left me my cards and passport. From then on I left the wallet at home and wore a neck pouch, and never had another problem! <BR> <BR>Italians will go out of their way to give good value, sometimes ludicrously so! I've been chased down the street by waiters trying to return the tip I had left for them. Once even in "jaded" Venice! In Naples we visited a trattoria near our hotel (in a somewhat grim but safe section). The staff insisted on bringing a sample of EVERYTHING they made (including delicacies not on the menu) when they realized we were "Americano's"! We tried to pay for it but weren't allowed to! The Sicilians in Palermo and Catania were also quite overwhelmingly hospitable at times. <BR> <BR>The northerners were more reserved, but have a sense of honor about the quality of what they do.

Since I just got back from my first trip to Italy, I'm posting like crazy today, making up for lost time. <BR> <BR>I found Venice restaurants to be somewhat expensive, but not outrageously so. Perhaps it depends on what you're used to. I live in New York and expect to pay at least $40 per person for a decent meal in a neighborhood restaurant, and that's what I paid in Venice. I am a working person, not <BR>independently wealthy. I know that restaurants are less expensive in other <BR>American cities, as I am sure they are in other Italian cities. <BR>I found that the restaurateurs and shop keepers that I dealth with were honest <BR>and on several occasions they pointed out to me that I was offering them too much money when I got confused with the currency in the beginning. If I was ever overcharged, I was not aware of it,and <BR>living in New York I do have an automatic skepticism. <BR>I found that a smile, a "Buon Giorno", a Per Favore, and a Grazie went a long way, and I had a wonderful time. <BR>

$40 per person for dinner? That's pretty high even for Venice! If you follow my rules you will not go much over $15 to $20 per person, even in Venice! In other parts of the north (excluding Milano and Florence) dinner for two with vino della casa generally ran a little over $30 for a shared appetizer and one course. <BR> <BR>The Japanese ordered at least 4 couses and an expensive wine. Even so, $425 was a stiff bill!

I really enjoyed my vist to Venice. We stayed in Mestre (very good prices and hotels were easy to find) and took the train to Venice every day (it leaves every 15 minutes). The closest we came to being "ripped off" was when the waiter told my friend to add a tip to the tourist menu we had ordered. She was unsure and didn't want to be rude so he would up with a pretty good tip. The next time it was "suggested" we add a tip to the bill, in San Marcos Square, we just said no. One thing we learned is that the restauranteurs know that Americans are used to tipping and will suggest it, even if tip is already included. All in all though, Venice (and Rome, Sienna, Florence, Verona, and Milan) was a wonderful experience and I would go back in a second!

Just returned from Venice. Yes, food is more expensive there than other parts of Italy. However, our last night 4 of us when out to a lovely restaurant recommended by our hotel . We spent L221,000 including tip for 4 which works out to about $35 per person (appetizer, main course, wine and mineral water). Not that bad. <BR> <BR>Just keep your head up. In fact, this year I was pleasantly surprised when the Vaporetto ticket guy actually did not charge me for my baggage which saved me L6000! <BR>

regarding Windy's comments about tipping: While I don't think it's appropriate for a waiter to ask for any anount of tip, it is considered customary and appropriate to leave a little extra tip on the table in addition to whatever service charge was included. We found that on average when service was included it ranged between 10% and 12% (as stated on the menu and/or on the bill). Since we normally tip 15-20% for good service at home and in other cities, we left some additional cash (usually around 5%) for good service, and saw many other diners (not only Americans) do the same. We always got a warm thank you, and we never felt taken advantage of. <BR>