Travel agent didn't book the overnight train. We now have to take the 11:52 AM train from Venice thru Milan to Nice arriving 8PM. Is there a dining car on any of these. Can we bring a "picnic lunch" on the train? what about wine? Anyone have any ideas, advice ?we have a party of 6,

The Trenitalia site says nothing about food service, but www.bahn.de says there are snacks and beverages on both legs (Venice-Milan and Milan-Nice). You can certainly bring your own food. And I think wine would be no problem either.

http://tinyurl.com/qon63

Are you taking EC114 and then EC109 (arr.Nice 19.58)? Then, neither seems to have a dinning car. No problem to birng food on board. Just don't party ;-)

Oh, I forgot. There is a bar where you can buy drinks and snakcks (maybe sandwiches too). Better bring your own food.

The DB web site (www.bahn.de) states that both these trains have a snack bar but not a restaurant. You can certainly take your own food and wine on the train, which seems the best option to me. Alternatively, you may be able to change the Venezia-Milano ticket to go on an earlier train, then have lunch in Milano

After having a few overpriced and pretty mediocre meals on dining cars in Italy, we've changed to the "picnic" route. So much better. We've even been known to offer a sample of wine to the conductors, who usually look around to see if they're going to get "caught" and then graciously accept it.

The reference library of a city near you may have the Thomas Cook European Rail Timetable. Table 90 says the train from Venice Santa Lucia at 1152 has a buffet car. You change at Milan 1455 to 1510, again to a buffet car train, and reach Nice at 1958. The vouchers for the two day trains are cheap, so you could scrap them, and again ask your agents ton book you a sleeper from Venice at 2252 to Nice at 0945. The sleeper supplement in a second class three berth room is about 45 euros a person. It is true you share with a stranger, or strangers, but that is no burden. I attach my note on getting the best from sleepers. As you know, the times are pleasant. You sup at a café over the water, walk to the station, take your bag from left luggage before closing time, board about 2220, wake, wash, eat your picnic breakfast (the sleeping car breakfast is too light for many anglo saxons), and see the Riviera. If you are not sure that you will have enough time from airport to station you can travel with your present tickets, and buy your sleeper from the conductor at the price you would pay the agent, or less. From Monday to Saturday you can leave your sleeper at Ventimiglia from 0848 to 0923 and reach Nice at 1014, or leave it at San Remo from 0827 to 0923, change at Ventimiglia 0943 to 0947, and reach Nice at 1045. If your sleeper runs to time you can even reach Ventimiglia in it at 0848 and dash over to a TGV (fast train) with buffet car for breakfast from Ventimiglia at 0849 to Nice at 0925. To do that you would tell your Italian conductor your plan, and ask him or her ask the train chief to phone forward to have the TGV held a minute for you. Your ticket is valid for any of these plans, though you would pay ten euros or so on boarding if you took the TGV. If at Ventimiglia you see the TGV speeding away you can reboard your sleeper, or stop forty minutes for a breakfast in the station buffet, with coffee and omlette.
Two further thoughts. If you arrive in the evening in Venice you can leave at 0752, change at Milan 1055 to 1110, and reach Nice at 1601, with buffet cars on both trains. Sleepers may be full in Italy and France 1, 2, 3, and 4 June for national holidays, but otherwise you can probably book on the platform.

Ben Haines, Londfon
[email protected]

Hi T,

>Travel agent didn't book the overnight train. We now have to take the 11:52 AM ...<

And you are just meekly accepting an 8-hr train ride because the travel agent messed up?

Have you considered buying tickets at www.trenitalia.com?

The TA can get a refund on the ones he/she bought.

I would just like a clarification.

> Table 90 says the train from Venice Santa Lucia at 1152 has a buffet car. You change at Milan 1455 to 1510, again to a buffet car train, and reach Nice at 1958.

I understand "buffet car" means "dining car". Is Ben (or rather the Thomas Cook Book) saying against what 3 other posters (including me) said? The two other got info from Deutchbanh site and me from Swiss site which are both good. So whic is incorrect?

You can definitely whatever food you wish on any train including wine.

Is there a reason you haven't had the travel agent change your reservation to the train your prefer?

A "buffet car" is a British term for a carriage with a bar serving drinks and snacks. The choice of snacks varies: there may be sandwiches, but they may sell out, especially on a long journey. Big railway stations usually have a much better choice, and many people buy snacks at stations to take on the train.
A buffet car is not the same as a dining car which normally means a carriage with tables and seats where stewards serve full meals.

The sleeper cars were already booked solid so we can't change the tickets. Not sure how to read the train tickets. They say they are Eurocity/ Intercity leaving Venice @ 11:52 with arrival in Milan @ 14:55. We then take the 15:10 train from Milan and arrive in Nice 19:58. Now that I'm reading the the reservations more closely they seem to written in German and the total for the two vouchers are 48 Euros. We also have vouchers for 1st class eurail selectpass saver, am I wrong in assuming we have assigned seats?

If you have reservations, the carriage number and seat numbers will be on the ticket. You need to talk to your travel agent if you have paid for tickets but don't know what the tickets are.

If you have reservations, the carriage number and seat numbers will be on the ticket. If you are paying a travel agent for these, you should get them to explain what they've sold you.

Even if they have a dining car, you'll probably be better off and save money if you bring food on board. If it IS only a snack car, you'll probably do better picking up food on the way to the train (not necessarily in the train station, but many of them have quite acceptable choices too). Treat yourself to things you know you'll like. We got stuck on a longish train ride from Vienna to Zell am See once and the food cart had virtually nothing on it by the time it reached us. Depending on your health and other requirements, that can be more than an inconvenience.

> A "buffet car" is a British term for a carriage with a bar serving drinks and snacks.

Geoffhammer, thanks for explanation. So basically he said the same thing as three others. I feel assured.

f you ask Google for the man in seat 61 you have a very good site that covers much that is useful to you about day train travel. I confess a slip. I cannot say whether the trains that Cooks shows as having buffet cars have those, or only a trolley. Never mind: to buy a snack meal near your hotel or in the station means you will travel in comfort.

Ben Haines