Diluting French Wines?
Mar 5th, 2007, 07:14 AM
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Diluting French Wines?
Recently in France i read in the paper that France would soon allow vinticulters in place like Burgundy and Bordeaux start blending in a certain percentage of other grapes into their previous 100% AOC wines - creating say a generic Bordeaux with less a specific pedigree than the AOC regulations.
Apparently this is because Bordeaux growers especially it said were on hard times and many were even pulling up vines to reduced the amount of product and boost prices up for the remaining. There were descriptions of tears brought to the eyes of some older growers when they had to pull up their vines.
I guess the less specific Bordeaux will compete better against California, etc. wines abroad in markets where people will just buy a bottle of say Bordeaux and not care which Bordeaux vineyard it came from.
Not sure the specifics of this plan and maybe someone else can add more...
But it's a revolutionary shake up in the making and marketing of French wines.
Apparently this is because Bordeaux growers especially it said were on hard times and many were even pulling up vines to reduced the amount of product and boost prices up for the remaining. There were descriptions of tears brought to the eyes of some older growers when they had to pull up their vines.
I guess the less specific Bordeaux will compete better against California, etc. wines abroad in markets where people will just buy a bottle of say Bordeaux and not care which Bordeaux vineyard it came from.
Not sure the specifics of this plan and maybe someone else can add more...
But it's a revolutionary shake up in the making and marketing of French wines.
Mar 5th, 2007, 07:17 AM
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I suppose for some the notion that French wines are "the best" will always hold true.
Some of these people are probably also the one's who said that nobody else coule compete...apparently they may have been wrong.
Some of these people are probably also the one's who said that nobody else coule compete...apparently they may have been wrong.
Mar 5th, 2007, 07:37 AM
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NeoPatrick wrote: "I thought the price of Bordeaux in particular had skyrocketed the past few years."
Yes and no. Some Bordeaux wines have become very expensive, but there is an amazing range of price and quality over the region. There are some very affordable wines available, and many of them appeal to my palate.
Many wines from both Bordeaux and Burgundy have long been produced from two or three grape varieties. It's already accepted within the AOC regulations.
Yes and no. Some Bordeaux wines have become very expensive, but there is an amazing range of price and quality over the region. There are some very affordable wines available, and many of them appeal to my palate.
Many wines from both Bordeaux and Burgundy have long been produced from two or three grape varieties. It's already accepted within the AOC regulations.
Mar 5th, 2007, 07:46 AM
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<Many wines from both Bordeaux and Burgundy have long been produced from two or three grape varieties. It's already accepted within the AOC regulations.>
yes but the news was just about diluting this requirement and sorry i can't say exactly how. maybe allowing grapes to a certain percent from outside the region?
yes but the news was just about diluting this requirement and sorry i can't say exactly how. maybe allowing grapes to a certain percent from outside the region?
Mar 5th, 2007, 07:59 AM
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Padraig, I'm not suggesting that there aren't still very affordable Bordeaux wines, but about 6 or 7 years ago the ones that cost the equivalent of 2 or 3 euro a bottle in a French wine store (and yes I had some good ones) are now something like 12 or 15 euro. They may still be affordable, but I still call that "skyrocketing". In fact the ones that used to be 25 or 30 euro a bottle that now cost 75 to 100 or more have not "skyrocketed" by as great a percentage. No?
Mar 5th, 2007, 08:13 AM
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In fact, there was a sharp decrease of prices for simple Bordeaux AOC wines. My wine dealer told me that he was overwhelmed by Bordeaux wines for 1 Euro per bottle. Keep in mind that Bordeaux is a huge region with a lot of mass production.
With the grand cru classés, it is a different story. Here, the prices indeed skyrocketed when the demand first from Japan, later from Russia drove the prices high. However, there have recently been some corrections, too.
You can still buy a good cru bourgeois for 10 or 12 Euros per bottle.
Maybe the confusion comes from the fact that wines are so expensive in the USA. We can even buy Californian wines (e.g. from Robert Mondavi), which are sold for 15 Dollars in the US, for half the price in Europe (strange, isn't it?). So it is not a matter of transportation. I have noticed that the cheapest wines in the USA are imported from North Africa.
With the grand cru classés, it is a different story. Here, the prices indeed skyrocketed when the demand first from Japan, later from Russia drove the prices high. However, there have recently been some corrections, too.
You can still buy a good cru bourgeois for 10 or 12 Euros per bottle.
Maybe the confusion comes from the fact that wines are so expensive in the USA. We can even buy Californian wines (e.g. from Robert Mondavi), which are sold for 15 Dollars in the US, for half the price in Europe (strange, isn't it?). So it is not a matter of transportation. I have noticed that the cheapest wines in the USA are imported from North Africa.
Mar 5th, 2007, 08:26 AM
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"However, there have recently been some corrections, too."
Traveller1959:
What caused those "corrections" (is that another word for drop in price?)
Was it a decrease in demand? If so, is that because some folks starting buying wines from other regions?
Traveller1959:
What caused those "corrections" (is that another word for drop in price?)
Was it a decrease in demand? If so, is that because some folks starting buying wines from other regions?
Mar 5th, 2007, 08:33 AM
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It is like at the stock exchange. Speculations drives the prices up, but eventually, the bubble bursts. You know, we buy the wines by subscription, that is one or two years before they are filled into bottles.
The great wine journalists - Johnson and Parker as well as some magazines - contribute to the increases in price. If Parker gives 90 or 92 points, the price rises sharply.
But then demand may drop, and the producers and wholesellers have to reduce the prices. Two years ago, the prices for some of the greatest chateaux (like Haut-Brion or Cos d'Estournel) were reduced by 25%. You bet, I purchased some boxes.
The great wine journalists - Johnson and Parker as well as some magazines - contribute to the increases in price. If Parker gives 90 or 92 points, the price rises sharply.
But then demand may drop, and the producers and wholesellers have to reduce the prices. Two years ago, the prices for some of the greatest chateaux (like Haut-Brion or Cos d'Estournel) were reduced by 25%. You bet, I purchased some boxes.
Mar 5th, 2007, 08:46 AM
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So I gather that competition from other regions for these particular wines is not necessarily a major factor which leads to a drop in demand.
I know there is only ONE Bordeaux region but does that mean there are no wines from anywhere else which some might consider to be just as good?
Yes, Waring, Grey Goose, for one, which seems to be "the" vodka for some folks although i wonder if some of them really can taste any difference from something like Absolut.
I know there is only ONE Bordeaux region but does that mean there are no wines from anywhere else which some might consider to be just as good?
Yes, Waring, Grey Goose, for one, which seems to be "the" vodka for some folks although i wonder if some of them really can taste any difference from something like Absolut.
Mar 5th, 2007, 09:12 AM
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waring - over production only in relation to the declining number of consumers
French wines have fallen victim to their own restrictive policies, instituted years ago to protect the public (and some might add the producers). Unable to spray for insects or pests, prevented from irrigating vines, controlled as to when they can harvest, and stopped from augmenting with additives.
On the other hand, wines marketed by grape varieties are artificially produced freely laced with sulphites and liquid oak on one of the largest markets in the world and this new wine drinking public does as its told.
Two questions: Have you priced a bottle of Napa valley lately?
Would you ratther have a mediocre French or a mediocre ...... (fill in the blank)
French wines have fallen victim to their own restrictive policies, instituted years ago to protect the public (and some might add the producers). Unable to spray for insects or pests, prevented from irrigating vines, controlled as to when they can harvest, and stopped from augmenting with additives.
On the other hand, wines marketed by grape varieties are artificially produced freely laced with sulphites and liquid oak on one of the largest markets in the world and this new wine drinking public does as its told.
Two questions: Have you priced a bottle of Napa valley lately?
Would you ratther have a mediocre French or a mediocre ...... (fill in the blank)
Mar 5th, 2007, 09:32 AM
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Ira..yes....that, too.
Recently we had some Gray Goose left in a botle and really questioned whether or not we should pour it into an almost full bottle of another vodka.
We have never done this before. We tried a blind taste test with the two vodkas...tasted straight. Nobody who participated could tell the difference and they had not had anything to drink prior.
Recently we had some Gray Goose left in a botle and really questioned whether or not we should pour it into an almost full bottle of another vodka.
We have never done this before. We tried a blind taste test with the two vodkas...tasted straight. Nobody who participated could tell the difference and they had not had anything to drink prior.
Mar 5th, 2007, 09:41 AM
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Hi Dukey,
Agreed.
Once you get beyond the $25/gal 150 proof "Grain neutral spirits", it's hard to tell one Vodka from another.
The "designer label" vodkas, Grey Goose, Belvedere, etc are no better than Absolut or Kettle One or Stolichnaya, etc.
For an interesting taste, you might want to try Lusoskowa - Polish potato wodka.
Besides, people who drink vodka only do it so they won't smell from Gin.
Agreed.
Once you get beyond the $25/gal 150 proof "Grain neutral spirits", it's hard to tell one Vodka from another.
The "designer label" vodkas, Grey Goose, Belvedere, etc are no better than Absolut or Kettle One or Stolichnaya, etc.
For an interesting taste, you might want to try Lusoskowa - Polish potato wodka.
Besides, people who drink vodka only do it so they won't smell from Gin.
Mar 5th, 2007, 09:46 AM
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We have someone who attends every one of our parties and always brings us a fifth of the potato vodka; she claims to be some sort of Polish countess whose family lost everything to the "Communists."
I have honestly never tried it but when i go home this afternoon I will do so and report back!
I have honestly never tried it but when i go home this afternoon I will do so and report back!
Mar 5th, 2007, 12:41 PM
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"waring - over production only in relation to the declining number of consumers"
That tends to be where it all starts. The winegrowers refuse to cut production, the state buys the surplus, then you have a wine lake.
A good friend of mine from Cognac is bemoaning that many distilleries (or whatever they are called), are switching over to Vodka production.
Samogon is the stuff you want to try, homemade Russian bathtub vodka, which can be made from berries, potatoes, vegetables, fruit, even clothes and shoes.
Loss of bladder control is one of it's more pleasant side effects. Getting into a fight with the Russian Marine who made you drink it in the first place, decidedly less pleasant.
Voda is Water
Vodka is "little water"
Vodichka is "cute little water" A good vodka!
That tends to be where it all starts. The winegrowers refuse to cut production, the state buys the surplus, then you have a wine lake.
A good friend of mine from Cognac is bemoaning that many distilleries (or whatever they are called), are switching over to Vodka production.
Samogon is the stuff you want to try, homemade Russian bathtub vodka, which can be made from berries, potatoes, vegetables, fruit, even clothes and shoes.
Loss of bladder control is one of it's more pleasant side effects. Getting into a fight with the Russian Marine who made you drink it in the first place, decidedly less pleasant.
Voda is Water
Vodka is "little water"
Vodichka is "cute little water" A good vodka!
