monicapileggi

I loved Trequanda!!

Monica

Italia2005

Hey Patrick and Budman - loved your debate!! What we are leaning towards is to arrive, then decide if we want to rent a car for a day trip or two and well, if it is a Ferrari - bella Tuscany it is!! Both driving and staying close to home base and really experiencing the area, both sound great - I don't think we'll go wrong either way!!

Stu - thanks for e-mailing me your trip report this morning - nice job! Thanks for mentioning that some restaurants may be closing up - gosh, that sounds early in the season. We'll be there the first week of November, so I hope most of the ones that readers have e-mailed about that are their favorites will be open - like Acquacheta!

Has anyone else stayed in Montepulciano during this time of year that can comment on the restaurant situation?

Cheers!

Patrick

Budman, of course there is no competition and the entire point of my posts was that we are not all alike -- just like you say. I did not put down driving a car at all -- but others seem to totally dismiss the idea of traveling without a car. As I think I made clear, we've done both -- car and no car -- so I was trying to be objective especially AFTER the poster gave a number of reasons why they didn't think they wanted a car. As I've said all along, not having a car isn't for everybody! But it would be nice if people could understand that HAVING a car isn't for everyone either. It's too bad that while some of us can see both sides of the picture, others (and NO I'm not singling you out, here) seem to always insist the ONLY way to "see" Tuscany is with a car. I'm certainly NOT saying that the only way to see or even experience Tuscany is without a car!

So I'm not merely giving my opinion here; I've been trying to say there are two ways to see Tuscany. Others seem to insist there is only one way -- their way! That is not what I'm saying at all!

jd_dallas

I would like to jump in briefly just to support Patrick's point of view. His suggestion of slowing down influenced us earlier this year on our second visit to Tuscany. When we stayed a week in Montepulciano, we did not have a car for the first 5 days. We had arranged through Auto Europe to pick one up for the last couple of days, which we spent day tripping (following Stu D's suggestions to see some of the much smaller towns the second day), and we needed the car to move on to Assisi.

We didn't even leave Montepulciano most days, instead getting into the rhythm of the town as it changed through the day (this was in early June, and the town gradually filled up during the day but was quiet at night and early in the morning).

We very much appreciated Patrick's point of view on this and we glad he suggested an alternative to the usual recommendations.

jd_dallas

Oops, meant to type "we were glad . . ."

By the way, Budman, I think that you must be more charming than I am. I loved the wine you recommended across the street from the Politian apartments, but I didn't get anywhere with trying to buy refills. The first time I tried, I hadn't looked up a word for "refill," and the proprietor just acted like he didn't understand what I was asking (standing there holding one of his empty bottles). Later I went back, with the Italian word ready, but the lady working the room said "no, we don't do that." But at 4 Euro a bottle for the red table wine, who could complain?

dorkforcemom

Along the same lines or "rental car vs. bus" debate, in a way I enjoy European trip planning with the "rental car vs. train" debate. Since much of my travel ejoyment comes from planning, I get a kick out of thinking through the pros and cons of these kind of scenarios. Weather certainly comes into play when making these decisions! Happy travels...

Budman

jd_dallas, the code words were "vino de tavola" and then point to the stainless steel tanks in the room to the left as you walk into the tasting room.

Maybe I was just lucky having been there and watching the elderly Italian filling his 5 litre jug.

Italia2005

JD Dallas:

Where did you pick up your rental car in Montepulciano - in town or back at the train station? That might work well for us to rent a car for a day before we leave to do some touring and then be able to drive to Umbria the next day where we could drop of the car in Foligno and then take a bus to Spello where we are staying next.

Thanks!

jd_dallas

Neither. At the time we made our reservation, the closest place to pick up a car was Chiusi. We reserved an Avis car there through AutoEurope.

Between the time of the reservation and our trip, Avis closed the Chiusi office. This is when I really began to appreciate Auto Europe. Because we had a confirmed reservation, they dealt with Avis and assured us we would get a car. Initially we were to meet an Avis rep at Chiusi (an easy bus ride from Montepulciano), but then Auto Europe informed us that Avis preferred to bring the car to Montepulciano. I was skeptical that this would work, but it happened like clockwork and it was very convenient.

I am not sure where is the nearest place to rent. I suggest that you call Auto Europe and get a suggestion. The key will be finding a location that is easily accessible from Montepulciano by bus, but that shouldn't be too difficult.

Note that arranging the rental from the US is generally much cheaper than trying to rent a car on site.

Italia2005

Thanks JD Dallas - I'll give them a call to see what our options are!

Ciao!

StuDudley

Hertz now occupies the former Avis office in Chiusi. However, it's a very small office and they might not have cars available for "walk up" customers. I would suggest that you reserve through AutoEurope before you leave the US. When we were in the Rome car rental office complex last year, there was an AutoEurope "office" there, but I think it was just a phone where you could call the AutoEurope office in Portland, Maine.

You can also pick up a car in Orvieto - where I think there are several rental offices. Normally, it costs about the same to rent a car for 7 days as it does for 2-3 days. Do the math, and if this is true, pick up the car in Orvieto when you are ready to leave there. Drive past La Badia hotel to get a fantastic view of Orvieto from below town, drive to Montepulciano, take some duct tape with you (or perhaps a bicycle lock) and try to "lock" the car shut so that you won't be tempted to use the car and "ruin" your vacation for the first few days when you claim you don't want to use a car.

Stu Dudley

Italia2005

Hi Stu:

I called AutoEurope today and found out that we can rent in Chiusi and drop off in Foligno (for the Umbria portion of our trip)for a total of $340 for a week (sub compact). It was the same for five days as seven days.

I tried Orvieto, but if we rent there, we can't drop off in Foligno and that is the quickest way for us to take a bus out of there to Spello (dropping us off in the Piazza near where we are staying)which a convenient 20 minute bus ride.

I have to say that I took literally most of the day today, trying to hunt down train/bus schedules for all of the towns we want to get to in both Tuscany and Umbria and it was exhausting, plus some of the websites with bus schedules were not working - I'm tired already of the bus situation and we're not even there!

Ok, now we're having the husband/wife debate on whether to take the plunge on this. We are known for our driving antics, getting into heated debates over who gave who the wrong directions,getting lost, etc. We were initially concerned about driving adding to the "stress" of our trip, but I guess if you are lost in Tuscany, that's not so bad and you can turn off on any road and soak in the view - getting lost and discovering hidden gems sounds like part of the experience!

It will also add to the cost of our trip as we're trying to go on somewhat of a limited budget, but it should add greatly to the convenience factor and save a heck of alot of time getting from place to place - especially the long day we were anticipating traveling from Montepulciano to Spello by multiple trains and busses.

I also noted that there is no bus service on Sundays and we're also going to be in MP on a holiday (Day of the Dead), so there won't be any bus service on two days of our five days in Montepulciano.

So, I think we're heading in the direction of renting a car - I lol with your suggestion of putting the duck tape on the door locks!

If we didn't have to go onto Umbria from Tuscany and have such a long travel day - probably over six/seven hours to finally get to Spello, we would probably only stay in MP or rent a car for a day or two to get to Montalcino/St. Antimo and cruise the countryside.

Thanks to all for their advice and personal experiences - we are excited!

Budman

You get all sides of the story, and you decide.

a. Tuscany with a rental car.

b. Tuscany without a rental car.

c. Tuscany with a mixture of both.


I have no dog in this fight, but having been there, done that, got the t-shirt, I prefer choice a. I guess it depends upon your own personal situation/travel plans.

P.S. Driving in Tuscany is much more tame than driving in my hometown.

Alajan

I echo the sentiments of those who strongly urge you to consider a rental car. My husband and I have been travelling to Italy each year for the past 8 - 6 out of the 8 in late October.

At that time of year, the days are noticeably shorter, daylight savings time will end around November 1, and the weather will be unpredictable. We have experienced idyllic days and just the opposite with cold wind and day long torrential downpours. I don't mention this to discourage you, but only to reinforce those who have suggested that a car will give you more flexibility.

The car is a huge expense but you could rent a small diesel that will give you excellent mileage. You can find other ways to conserve. Since you are renting an apartment, you can save money by eating one or two of your meals "at home". Drink the house wine at restaurants, it is usually very good. Montepulciano is full of wine shops - go to the free tastings, buy a bottle in the shops and enjoy it while taking in the view from your lovely apartment.

I agree that it is wonderful to settle into a town rather than dart here and there as some tourists are prone to do. And although I have often had thoughts of what my life would be like if I could slow down a bit and live in one of these charming Tuscan hilltowns, I remain a traveler and want to use my time wisely. In Tuscany I have found that train and especially bus schedules are mere suggestions - you cannot count on them.

I love southern Tuscany in late October. There is a winery near Acquaviva that I always suggest - Fattoria del Cerro. The drive through acres of golden vines is one you will never forget.

hazel1

We just returned from our trip to Italy, where we rented an apartment in Montichiello, near Montepulciano. We rented a diesel Fiat Punto from AutoEurope/Avis for $340 for a week, picking up the car in Florence, driving to southern Tuscany and tooling around every day visiting various hilltowns and thoroughly enjoying the drives through the gorgeous countryside. When we turned the car in in Chiusi, we had only used a 1/2 tank of fuel (loved that diesel mpg!) and spent only 30 euros to fill up the tank.
My husband had not been too keen on renting a car, prefering to use buses, etc., but in the end he agreed that it had been a wise choice, giving us much freedom and little to no hassle.

The only tricky part about the whole deal was returning the car to Avis in Chiusi - the Avis office isn't exactly in Chiusi, it's in Po Bandini a couple of km away, and we wondered how we'd get to the train station. We had a little bit of trouble finding it, but got directions from a gas station, and then located on a back street in a car dealership. There was just one guy at the desk on Saturday, so he said he'd need to call us a taxi to take us to the train station in Chiusi, which was okay with us, but a few minutes later, he came back to us and said he'd give us a ride himself. He was very nice, and they even ended up shipping the camera that I left in the car back home to me.

The Avis guy said the people in the Hertz office in town tell people there's no Avis office in Chiusi anymore (which technically is correct, but extremely misleading), so that may tell you something about dealing with Hertz...

StuDudley

Wrong turn in Southern Tuscany and getting lost??? No such thing. We have probably driven down every road between Montepulciano and Montalcino and north & south of there for 10K. We've hit many roads in a 20K radius around Montalcino also. Everything is quite scenic - getting lost is a lot of fun. The region east & northeast of Montepulciano is not quite as scenic with patches of some ugly commerce starting at Torrita & east of the freeway.

The only time I get a little lost, is when trying to navigate through Chianiano Terme while getting on the freeway.

Stu Dudley

Patrick

"In Tuscany I have found that train and especially bus schedules are mere suggestions - you cannot count on them."

Isn't that interesting? As a person who always has a car, how much experience did you have with trains and busses? I'm trying to figure out how someone with a car would know whether trains and busses are dependable or not -- or merely quoting something they've "heard" to be true. During our week in Montepulciano I'd guess we took about 15 to 20 different busses and trains -- every one was exactly as scheduled.

Once again, I'm not saying that having a car isn't a good idea for most, but I think it's best to paint a fair picture of life without one. Saying the busses and trains are mere suggestions is simply not true these days -- maybe it was 10 or 20 years ago.

Alajan

I have quite a bit of experience with trains and buses in Italy, although we usually rent a car when staying in the rural countryside of Tuscany and Umbria.

This past April, I took a bus to Florence from Lucca - pleasant, quick trip over but the return trip was a nightmare. I won't bore you with details but our bus waited approx. 45 min. for another bus. Needless to say, our driver was cursing and the bus was full of unhappy Italian commuters and two confused American tourists. Finally the second bus arrived and one person boarded ours. We were off again only to stop at every little village along the way. Although I was thankful not to endure the parking nightmare in Florence, the return bus trip was long and tiring.

I have visited Rome for extended stays and during that time taken the ES to Florence for the day. Would not have dreamed of renting a car for that excursion.

If I am in Tuscany for the Arezzo antique market and near a train station (usually the Chiusi station), I will usually choose the train over the car because, again, I find the parking situation difficult on market day.

However, sole use of buses and trains (as was Italia's original supposition) requires careful planning as Italia has now discovered after checking the posted schedules. To make matters more complicated, with Montepulciano as a base, Italia will be lodged away from a main train station which will make it necessary to bus to Chiusi station. Possible of course.

I don't enjoy being on a schedule when on holiday and find that a car offers complete freedom and convenience. Italia will be in Italy in late October through early November - again, the days are much shorter, the weather can be another negative factor. Why complicate matters with schedules and routes alien to tourists?

Perhaps on this trip Italia will try a combination of both methods of travel and become comfortable with the trains and buses. But I would never recommend sole use of public transport to a first time traveler in the region.

Italia2005

Thanks everyone for your honest feedback and opinions. I would say hands-down we would likely rent a car if it weren't so darn expensive. We will need an automatic and in checking rates with AutoEurope today, they qouted their best rate at around $500 Euro for five days.

Since we have built into our itinerary at least a couple of days to stay within the towns we are staying in to soak up the local culture and experience full days in each town, it may make more sense for us to think about only renting a car for a day trip to drive through the Montalcino/Pienza/San Quirico d'Orcia/Montefollonico area and then use the bus for any further urges to day-trip. The same for our week in Umbria (we are basing out of Spello and Spoleto) with a couple of day trips planned by bus or train to to Assisi, Norcia and Montefalco. We may rent a car for the drive to Norcia to be able to drive beyond Norcia to see the Piano Grande.

Two years ago when we were in Florence we were very impressed with the bus service, but granted that was a bigger city with more options available. We were also very impressed with the train service - much better than we could ever hope for in the U.S. Very inexpensive, reliable and on time!

Thanks to all of you that are urging us to get a car for at least a day or two to tour Tuscany - I'm sure it will be a memorable experience that we won't forget and this would also allow us to soak in the town of Montepulciano (rain or shine!)

Still open to comments and suggestions and thanks for your input - if we all had the same opinions and tastes, it would make life more boring now, wouldn't it!

Ciao!

Budman

Italia2005,

Hey, you will have a great time, no matter what means of transportation you chose. I think the whole issue comes down to "convenience."

My recommendation to those contemplating visiting Tuscany and renting a car -- diesel, stick shift, and small -- especially if you are on a budget.