Thanks, Pal--I've been to Wurzburg and it was great, so I'll give it a pass in preference to not-seen-sites this time.

So still looking for ideas for day trips. Any more? Maybe I'll just start another thread soon.

yo, Texas... look up Trier!

For side trips, I highly recommend Buedingen, if you want to visit a medieval walled town, but without the tourist kitsch of Rothenburg. If you like half-timbered houses, it is a treat. This is a town that is really worth booking a private tour in English. They only cost about 41 euro and the guide will take you inside of the walls and the towers as well as climbing to the top of them. From the top, you should be able to see Ronneburg Castle. The palace here is 13 sided and has been occupied by the Ysenburg family for over 40 generations.

Other choices, as mentioned in my earlier post would be Idstein, Gelnhausen or Seligenstadt. All are with-in an hour of Frankfurt. If you go to Idstein, climb the Witches Tower and also visit the Union church. Very unique.

Bad Homburg has the summer palace of the Kaiser, the fabulous Redeemer Church and right outside of town is the Saalburg, a reconstructed Roman fort. You might also plan a visit to Hessen Park, an open air museum.

In Frankfurt itself, you might want to visit the neighborhood of Hoechst, with the Justinus Church consecrated in 850, amd the Schloss and the Bolongaro Palace. They have a summer fest for a month this summer in this old town area that sits up on the city walls. The church is open from 14:00-16:00, except for Mondays. Beautiful Carolingen architecture, and the herb garden from the Antoniter Monks, located behind the church, is interesting and beautiful.

My suggested highlights of Frankfurt are:
*Kaiserdom
*the Klein Markt Halle
*Karmeliter Cloister, get the audio guide for 2 euro
*Deutsche Orden Church
*Alte Nikolai
*Eschenheimer Turm
*the Jewish Holocaust Memorial
*the Alte Oper
*any of the farmers markets held in various locations on different days of the week.
*the main Cemetery (don't laugh, it is gorgeous and the largest in Germany)
*Bornheim, the Berger Strasse, Bethmann Park with the Chinese Garden
*Sachsenhausen, the Schweizer Strasse, etc.
*Westend, beautiful old villas
*the Palmengarten
* Bockenheim
*the neighborhood around the train station. Beautiful turn of the century architecture. The 124 year old train station itself is magnificent.

Museums - the Staedel, Schirn, Judengasse, Jewish Museum, Kunsthandwerk Museum, Liebieghaus, Historic Museum (newly re-opened)the Leather Museum in Offenbach.

For Mainz, do visit the cathedral, St. Martins. For me it is more awe inspiring than the one in Cologne, mainly because it is 1000 years old and is just beautiful. St. Stephens with the Chagall windows is stunning. Visit the Isis Temple ruins in the Romer Passage.

Wiesbaden is pretty too, with some of the loveliest houses around. Visit the Markt Kirche set in the market square.

windscape--Yep, we are going to Trier on Friday afternoon and have all day Saturday. Not long enough, but it will have to do. Spending Saturday night in Luxembourg and seeing some WWII sites on Sunday. One of hubby's favorite places in Germany is Trier, where he's visited twice, and he's willing to take me back for a brief visit. All of the visits on this trip will be rather brief--not a SlowTravel kind of trip!

Thanks again, Mainhattengirl--I will use your Frankfurt recommendations as a guide. I have been in Hoechst; in 1988 a wife and daughter of a co-worker of my husband's took me there and I still treasure the porcelain I bought. I've been to Saalburg, too, so don't think I'll go through the trouble that getting a bus to the Roman fort would entail. Your other suggestions of smaller towns are still on my maybe-list; Mainz was already a definite, but I'll add the Isis Temple to my itinerary!

texasbookworm: You can ignore the following explanation. These posts stay here indefinitely, so for the sake of accuracy and the benefit of future readers doing day trips from Frankfurt, I wish to comment on PalenQ's analysis:

PalenQ writes, "Even for two people the German Twin Pass makes great sense for OP's plans - a no-brainer since Twin Passes are about 20% cheaper than solo passes per person - so two folks does not change much, especially when flexibility is desired."

Two passengers traveling together and getting tickets as they go, day by day, would be foolish to use "solo passes" - they'd use RMV group daypasses, or Quer Durchs Land tickets for two, or Happy weekend tickets (for 2-5.) The math is very simple. Add up the group day pass costs. Here's the cost for two travelers using texasbookworm's sample itinerary, Frankfurt to... and back:

Mainz: 26€
H'berg: 48€
Köln: 48€
Middle Rhine: 48€
Marburg: 40€
Bamberg: 48€
Michelstadt: 40€
Büdingen: 26€

Total for daypasses: 324€ = $407
Total for 8-day Germ. rail twinpass for two = $582 + whatever shipping is involved.

My trusty calculator says that the twinpass is 43% more expensive than the daypasses.

For ONE person: 8-day 2nd class German railpass = $385
Total for daypasses: 248€ or $312

For ONE, the railpass is still 23% more expensive than pay-as-you-go - which is why I said the savings is NOT so grand, and a railpass might make sense.

I cannot explain how PalenQ has come up with a price advantage for railpasses.

Now, there are convenience factors, and in the case of Cologne and perhaps Bamberg and Heidelberg, a time-on-train factor, that are worth considering. Whether it's a "no-brainer" or not involves a very subjective consideration of these factors. But without some itemized costs from PalenQ or someone else, I don't see how it's possible to claim a PRICE advantage for railpasses, as PalenQ has done.

Marburg and Michelstadt would together be 18€ less than I estimated above (for two) with the Hessen Ticket daypass, which I left out of the mix.

I have a poster on my classroom door of Gandalf--"If you do not study, you shall not pass!" I think that should be the mantra for all those exploring how to pay for train travel in Europe--If you do not study, you shall not (buy a) Pass! (But once you study, you might find a Pass works best/better.)

Thanks for the very reasoned and clear info, Russ. I made my decision to buy a Pass without a definite itinerary in mind, but your figures are generally the cost difference I was finding. So then the convenience factor of a Pass was what I weighed and what tipped the scale, i.e., the flexibility of dates and times and ability to change my mind lots without penalty and the benefits of being able to use the faster trains and travel before 9 am.

I totally agree that each person should really do exactly what Russ has done above, which I did somewhat--get current prices of the Railpass, point to point tickets, AND the day pass/regional pass and really see what is best. What I concluded was that the Railpass was going to be a bit more for me, but the flexibility was worth the extra cost. If I'd been more sure of my itinerary or if I hadn't wanted to travel before 9 and be able to use a faster train a few times, I would have gone with the regional/day passes I think. (In Germany, for groups traveling on weekends, the day and regional passes are a terrific bargain. However, as I would be alone except for the weekends when we'd have a car, these weren't helpful for me.)

Bottom line for anyone reading this--DO THE MATHS before you decide which method of payment works best for YOU on YOUR trip! Rick Steves' website has a good explanation of how to do comparisons; also http://www.seat61.com/ goes through the "how to decide if a RailPass is right."

I believe that there are absolutes--a Truth, a Goodness, a Beauty--but in the realm of cheapest way to pay for train travel, truth becomes relative!

And I'm still gathering ideas for those close-to-Frankfurt day trips.

Yup texasbooworm - refund that pass if you can - a total ripoff as Russ clearly indicates = what an ingorent choice you made - refund it now that it has been exposed by Russ as a total rip-off!

Idstein and Limburg are pretty, and also part of the local train network, but they are quite small - I'd budget 1/2 day excursions.

Wiesbaden is also nice (I am partisan, I lived there) - visit the Russische Kapelle, very beautiful. It's in the hills just behind Wiesbaden. And walk around to all the natural springs in the city (fountains). The Kochbrunnen bubbles out of the ground at 60C (yeowch), while the Baeckerbrunnen (also warm) used to be used by bakers to start the yeast. You can fill a bottle and drink from them - they're very therapeutic. Just don't drink from the Faulbrunnen, that one is bad for you. You can visit the thermal baths (the Kaiser-Wilhelm-Therme), or go to a concert in the Kurhaus (the Rheingau Musik Festival is centred on Wiesbaden but there are locations from Lorch to Hochheim - that would be a lovely introduction to the area: http://www.rheingau-musik-festival.d...lstaetten.html ). Eat in one of the little restaurants in the streets around the Markt - I think Grabenstrasse used to have some nice little places. But you absolutely must visit Café Maldaner in the street called Michelsberg (which leads into Marktstrasse - from the Langgasse (main street of the pedestrian zone), turn right towards the market square). Amazing cakes and the archetypal Wiesbaden experience - Wiesbaden is a city of little old ladies with fur coats and poodles and that is who you will see there. Also go for a walk through the Kurpark and up and down the Wilhelmstrasse. It's a very elegant city.

Agree with Mainhattengirl about Mainz - do make time for it one day. The Mainzer Dom is special, and there is enough of the old city to make it an interesting experience. There are also some Roman ruins in Mainz, including the remains of a Roman boat in the Roemisch-Germanisches Zentralmuseum (http://web.rgzm.de/1.html?&L=1), and also see the Gutenberg Museum (http://www.gutenberg-museum.de/index.php?id=29&L=1).

Lavandula

Hi texasbookworm,

I haven't read all the responses, so forgive me if this has been suggested already.

But for a history teacher, I would think that Aachen would be pretty interesting. I guess it's a bit of a stretch at 2h each way.

Anyway, have fun travelling!

s

Thanks, swandav2000. My hubby enjoyed Aachen; it's on my radar for possible places. Haven't made all my choices yet--definitely the Rhine, Heidelberg, Mainz, and Koln. (and Frankfurt but not using Railpass). And just about definite about Buedingen. Thanks for the suggestion.

I am of course finding I wish I had at least twice as much time!

Cologne IMO after staying there on business for days on end is at best a 2-hour stop for the average traveler - see the Dom and walk the riverside and head for somewhere else IMO.

Oh dear, I do disagree with PalenQ about Köln. I think it's a lovely and gracious city! There is a stunning Roman Museum next to the Dom -- well worth while.

s

Again, thanks to all above who've given me good suggestions for possible trips. I always take people's "must-see's" as well as "don't-go's" with tablespoons of salt.

swandav2000--I have wanted to see Koln for years and it's staying on MY Must-see list. And so I'll be doing sorta what Pal says--seeing a few major sites there for 4-5 hours and then heading somewhere else--in my case, back to Frankfurt to try to have dinner/evening with hubby! With a fast-ish train, this trip becomes possible to do with about 3 hours travel, so I'm keeping this itinerary for a day I need to be easier on my legs or that gets me back to Frankfurt earlier than some other ones I'm planning.

It is not that Cologne is not a nice city - a clean city but since it is all blitzkreiged in WW2 very little old-world romance even though a a postage-stamped sized Altstadt has been re-created, etc. And yes the museum next to the cathedral is a world-class one if interested in roman detritus. But otherwise a modern modern city - does have one of the largest Turkish towns in Germany however if ethnic tripping turns you on.

Nice strolls along the Rhine and on the other side of the river and downstream is a very very nice park with some nice gardens, etc in it.

If a bit of time is spent on discovering more of Cologne than the obvious tourist attractions that are usually listed, you might find many beautiful old neighborhoods, more old churches, and more museums. Try strolling through the Belgian quarter perhaps, if you want to see parts of Cologne that didn't get bombed.

http://www.koeln.de/cologne_tourist_...ation/churches

Very close to Frankfurt (only 15 min. by train) there a architectural gem: Augustusburg castle. It is considered the most beautiful baroque castle in Rhineland and it is inculded in UNESCO world cultural heritage. Inside it is a superb staircase, considered one of the most beautiful in the world. The landscape garden of the castle is large , has many very old trees, many flowers.

The castle is not so large, so the visit will not take a long time. Please note that (but check to be sure) that it is closed on Monday and that daily between noon and 1:30 pm is also closed.

The castle is in front of the train station in Bruhl, so very easy to be reached.

Bruhl, sa vedem castelul Augustusberg. Foarte frumos decorat. O scara doesebit de frumos ornata, cea mai frumoasa vazuta de noi.
Gradina aranjata in stil francez, foarte frumoasa.
o be the most meaningful Baroque castle of the Rhineland. In 1984, the Castle Augustusburg, the little pleasure palace Falkenlust and the large-scale park were included in the list of the UNESCO world cultural heritage.

V--I'm still open to suggestions, and I was intrigued enough by your description to look into Augustusburg, but I don't see any way to get there in 15 minutes. The DB site says 1.5 to 2.5 hours one way. Is there something I'm misunderstanding?

Sorry, I wanted to say 15 min. from Cologne. You said that you want to visit Cologne, so maybe you will start this day trip early, go first from Frankfurt to Bruhl and after visit of Augustusburg, go to Cologne for the rest of the day.

the best thingy in Koln or Cologne in English IMO is the local beer - Kolner something that every beer garden and beer hall features.