rex

Okay, after incessant rhetoric for a long time about how an overnight sleeper train trip would NOT be for me... I am actually considering using one - - for our all-too-short (five nights) trip to France (or Spain?) later this month.

And so, I looked on SNCF, and a PREM fare was offered - - so far, no mystery, but then it semed like there was a "pull-down box" about a sleeper (maybe this was after I clicked on first class?) and it doesn't seem like there was any choice but to take it. Don't get me wrong - - we WOULD indeed want it; I am just surprised that it seems like this was an automatic choice (i.e., no choice to NOT get it) - - and of course, the fare (140 euro - - and this is per compartment, it seems - - not per person!) seems quite good. After all, Viamichelin estimates the gasoline and tolls at about 110 euro, so it's (a little) like an extra day because we don't have to devote that to getting back to Paris, and lodging for close to free (or, okay, for 30 euro).

But maybe I am not understanding the SNCF screen correctly. So, I did a "screen capture" and saved it to my Geocities page, so that others can look at it...

http://www.geocities.com/rexbickers/...z-to-Paris.bmp

note: this is case-specific - - copy and paste or type exactly as shown.

Am I understanding the (available) purchase correct - - I didn't buy it - - I am still not even sure we want it or not (though it seems attractive).

And as a corollary, might I assume that this fare would be available until May 10 (21 days in advance)?

Thanks in advance for helping through this gap in my familiarity with basic travel skills in Europe.

Best wishes,

Rex

Intrepid1

Yes, this is the "usual" screen for picking the type of sleeping accommodations and when you pick and "confirm" the type of sleeping accommodations the fare is adjusted automatically and will be shown as the "total" payment due.

The fares that are NOT Prem fares can be remarkably low on some of these routes (senior fares...> 60 y.o.a. come to mind) especially if you are booking two weeks in advance or more.

My only concern on ANY night train is what the accommodations are actually like. As a rule we have generally used Trenhotels (and will do so again this July on the way to Madrid) and German CityNightLine equipment. As always, hopefully this will turn out to be pleasant..the SNCF roadbeds are generally well-maintained and smooth, even on non-TGV trackage.

Have a great trip.

kappa

I did the same for a try on your date and the site offered indeed €140 for 2 persons. This is 1st cls but suprisingly is also couchettes which is less comfortable than wagon-lits. I thought couchettes are always in 2nd cls. Anway this looks like a great deal. I wan't sure if Prem's are offered on the trains other than TGV. I think I saw it once on a ordinary train GVA-Lyon.

The first time on the site, the offer said "last seats !" then I went back to the same page 10 minutes later then it was gone. The page gave €277.20 full fare. I hope it is a momentary thing and €140.00 will come back if you are reserving it.

rex

Thank you both very much. I am not actually ready to book this (don't have the rest of the itinerary even vaguely mapped out, mentally, that would put us in Biarritz at the right time and date) - - but I am encouraged that you both think that this screen does indeed indicate the true total cost, and that the couchettes/sleepers are part of the PREM pricing, in this case.

The &quot;last seats&quot; <i>warning</i> may indeed be no mere idle threat. I got it last night also. When trying it again this morning, the transaction gave me a &quot;timed out&quot;, of course. When I put it in again this morning, it gave the same <i>last seats</i> warning, and when I went to proceed, it gave me the EXACT same &quot;seats&quot;, 25 and 26 (both &quot;upper&quot. I have just now tried again and tried specifying one upper and one lower, and it says

&lt;&lt;Attention, some of your requests for seats cannot be satisfied.&gt;&gt;

Thus, I think that it is down to the last few empty couchette(s) - - or would you say (individual) &quot;berths&quot;?

I remain leery of this. And the arrival in Paris raises questions as well; getting in at 7:10 am after whatever kind of sleep you can get on these... and a flight back home at 2:00 pm - - looks like a recipe for rather bad fatigue, and little or no ability to enjoy the 3-4 hours available in Paris before needing to head to the airport.

But I am still keeping an open mind to consider it.

I ought to put Ben Haines name in this thread (I think he searches for his own name). Wonder what his words of wisdom would be?

rex

Although our entire itinerary stills seems a little bit wacky... I am edging ever closer to confirming this decision to take the overnight train from Biarritz back to Paris, since the fare of 140 euro seems to accomplish several things:

1. It is cost-neutral or cheaper than driving, even though the rental car would be free (i.e., turning it at noon on departure day costs no more than turning it the night before in Biarritz). Train = 140 euro, plus cost of getting to CDG from Paris, presumably on AirFrance bus from Gare de Lyon; car = cost of one night's lodging, plus viamichelin estimate of 96 euro for tolls and gasoline.

2. Allows us one full long day in the Bilbao area on the day befoire departure, and ... knock on wood... provides adequate rest to enjoy 8 to 11 am in Paris the next morning before our flight.

3. Adds overnight sleeper train to my &quot;inventory&quot; of things I have tried! (I have assumed for ages that it will not be my cup of tea, but I really should try it to see what it is like).

The availability of the PREM are seems to have not changed during te past 48 hours. It is now 22 days in advance. I assume that I should stop gambling with it NOT being available tomorrow or the enxt day. Our entire itinerary does hinge on using it (somewhat).

Other than the fact, that this train ride is an &quot;enabler&quot;... of us driving &quot;outbound&quot; too far in the first place... can anyone think of any other factors to consider, with regard to locking this decision into place?

rex

Hmmm... now I see that there is a SECOND class PREM fare available for only 40 e per person (70 for first class) - and middle berths ARE available right now.

So (if the whole idea is to try &quot;roughing it&quot - - anyone want to offr me a perspective on how different the 6-couchettes are, versus the 4-couchettes?

I assume that these are some key differences:

1. More people in your &quot;personal (auditory and olfactory) space&quot;

2. More people's stuff that has to be crammed in there somewhere (the floor)?

3. Less head room... is the sleep surface itself really different? Do they provide a sheet (in either class)? I actually do travel with my own (flimsy, pathetic) pillow - - but my wife likes big over-stuffed ones. She might end up out of luck, huh? with none?

Since this is an add-on question, maybe I need to post it separately (but I have a lot of threads going in regards to this short trip already!)

I am going to need to buy today, right? (21 days in advance)?

ira

Hi rex,

&gt;...anyone want to offr me a perspective on how different the 6-couchettes are, versus the 4-couchettes?

One is a small closet for 4, the other is a small closet for 6.

If you have ever been on the Secret Itineraries Tour of the Doges place, you will have seen the cells for two prisoners.

They were larger than a 2cl couchette.

GeoffHamer

Couchette passengers get a sheet, blanket and pillow. It's a few years since I've last used a couchette (I go for sleepers if they're available), but the sheet was shaped like a sort of tapered sleeping bag. You have a bedside light but few other facilities. The compartment door can be locked so you get much more privacy than sleeping in a seat, even though you'll be sharing with strangers. In my experience, other passengers are friendly and there's usually at least one person in the compartment who's done it before and knows the details of getting the best out of couchettes.
You may feel you're &quot;roughing it&quot; but no other transport will allow you to have dinner in Biarritz and breakfast in Paris - it is actually quicker than flying in terms of time wasted.

kappa

I have taken a 6-berth couchette only once. I was alone and the route was GVA-BCN (Spanish train Pablo-Casal)That was looong time ago. I'd say never again. Especially now I'm older and can afford a bit more. I'm usually a light sleeper but I could not sleep at all then. Your space is so limited. Today I'd take 4-berth if I'm alone and 2-berth if I'm with a travel partner, both of which I've done for GVA-VCE.

And I remember I took 2-berth Annecy-Bordeaux once. That was ok.

In all the cases above, there were always some kind of sheets and pillow provided.

Intrepid1

Rex:

I can tell you this much..you who have continually promoted air travel in Europe..and, as I recall, once said you hadn't taken a train in Europe in a long time (am I incorrect about this???)...I can guarantee you that if you do the couchette number you will never set foot on another train as long as you live!!

rex

Geeminy... I expected a spectrum of opinions, and I got 'em huh? I was last on a train in 2001 (Venice-Rome).

I don't HATE trains, I just think that for many (long-ish) routes, flying is a better use of time and money. But in this case, perhaps not really. And I expect to be more tolerant of the poor sleep conditions because it is our last night - - i.e, the next day, we only have a few hours in Paris... see one thing, and then it's get on our trans-atlantic flight and we can catch up on sleep as needed.

Geoff's advice is moderately reassuring - - I <i><b>do</b></i> think that I know what I am getting us in for... (but does my wife fully understand?) - - and remember this is intended to serve two goals: 1) because I want to see firsthand what it's like... and 2) as Geoff points out... no other mode allows us to have dinner in Biarritz (or even Hondarribia, if we're liking the Spain side of the Basque country), and be in the center of Paris at 7:15 am.

rex

Hmmm... I didn't finish one part of my line of thought... does everyone's stuff have to go one the floor? Do some people put their luggage in their couchette with them (yikes!) I wonder what are the chances tht one of the six (or four) will be unreserved (I know... I can't count on that).

I have thought that I might be lugging a case (or more) of wine home.