And the answer is at the start of the response...

No (unless you live in Britain)

alan...

You have to understand from reading this board that various people have their own definitions of "convenience"...so what if it costs them money...they want to arrive with everything they need...so they go out and prepurchase foreign currency when they pay huge fees and say I'm too busy to use an ATM upon arrival....I'm too busy to find a mobile phone store so I'll pay ridiculous roaming rates on my home carrier or buy a sim card from an American mail order house even though I'm paying 3 or 4 times the rate...all they want is "convenience"

BTW to be accurate, you can buy a paper 7 day travelcard on various web sites but then if you're using the tube to come in from Heathrow, you will need to go to the booking office for an extension anyway, an extension that is somewhat more expensive than using oyster...but then again it's one less thing to worry about....just, and it's my opinion, don't see what the worry about, especially in London where they speak the same language, of buying an oystercard the first day in London wherever...sure there might be a queue of 5 or 6 minutes....big deal..I doubt extremely if the extra 6 minutes will ruin your holiday and after you buy the oyster card, you can top it up if necessary using the vending machines where there rarely is a queue.

And you want to talk about queues on the London Underground...check out the Bayswater station at about 0920 every weekday morning as everybody is queuing up to buy the off peak travelcard...

Again please forgive me but personally, I just don't get it.

I too find it odd that after paying $$$$ for flight and another $$$$ for hotel, tourists quibble over £3 on the tube!

Is that different from squeezing every last penny out of airfares and then blowing $50 on a taxi from the airport?

I find that odd too.

xyz or robes, can you please advise me on how much to put on the oyster to come in from heathrow on the tube to central london, and to travel around central london that day and part of the next? thanks!

A single Oyster fare from Heathrow to London is £3.50 between 7AM and 7PM weekdays (£2 other times).

If you take more than a couple of rides after you get into town that first day, you will probably reach the off-peak Oyster cap of £5.80 for a Zone 1-6 Travelcard.

The next day, you will probably hit the £3 bus-only cap or the £4.40 bus + Tube cap for Zones 1-2.

Add up what you think you'll use.

One of the big advantages of Oyster is that you don't have to work out what pass you need to buy for that day.

So if the weather changes or you decide to stay longer somewhere you don't lose out either by wasting a travel card or by having excess payments to make.

<<and it's my opinion, don't see what the worry about, especially in London where they speak the same language, of buying an oystercard the first day in London wherever...sure there might be a queue of 5 or 6 minutes....big deal..>>

xyz123 - I didn't realize English was everyone's first language. I thought Heathrow was an international airport. have been in tube lines for probably 45 minutes in other cities. Getting a ticket ahead of time is doing everyone a favor. As a native New Yorker, you might not consider English my first language either.

ctigerk

As far as I can tell, <i> once you get an oyster card </i>, you can top it up online even if you don't live in the U.K. However, this isn't as convenient as it sounds - it's not like a single use rail ticket which you can print out on your home or office printer. Since the money you put on the card has to be recorded on the physical oyster card somehow, for all on-line 'top-ups' you have to designate a tube stop at which you will transfer the online order to the actual oyster card. (You must order online no later than 2300 of the day before, go to tfl dot gov dot uk slash oyster for further details.)

As for ordering the oyster card itself on-line, forget it unless you have a suitable mailing address in the UK to which tfl can mail the oyster card. Or maybe someday travel agents will start offering this as a service, but to the best of my knowledge, that day isn't here yet.

A possible compromise - for those desiring at least some 'have it in the hand before departure' convenience might be to buy your first day's transport in the usual fashion (either from the machines at Heathrow or from a travel agent, if it is really important to you to get it in advance) and then once in London, visit a station at your leisure and get an oyster card and start from there.

Thank you all for your help.

If getting on your way quickly is a big deal, you could buy a single ticket from Heathrow to central London on line for &pound;4.

http://www.ticket-on-line.com

the London School of Economics should offer an honorary PhD for anyone who can clearly explain Transport for London's fare system.

;-)

The fare structure for adults isn't bad; especially with oyster cards...all you have to decide is pay as you go or a 7 day travelcard and the computers take care of everything else.

But I will admit, I can't figure out rates for under 18 easily enough, sometimes you need a photocard sometimes you don't. sometimes transportaion is free other times there are children's rates.

But basically what do you really think is difficult about this oyster card business so we can try to assist.

I wanted to bring this thread back up to the top for people who may have missed it because it was a good discussion about Tube travel and the Oyster card.

These guys were great, and now I understand what I didn't before.

So pleased that i am kane now understands this. i'm a brit and it's got me totally puzzled. Is this system [and i can't believe someone actally planned this mess] Ken's idea of promoting tourism? I'm surprised anyone bothers.
Why don't you all come to Cornwall - no problem with the underground at all!!

So I have a question. I will be in London in a few weeks. Actually two questions. 1) so does that mean that <b>any travel</b> after 0930 is considered off peak, until when in the evening, 2000, 2359? Also, I will arrive on a Saturday around 1200, and I go to a station and get a 3-day pass, how long would that be good till, Tuesday at 0430, or Wednesday at 0430?

Yes, off peak is after 0930. The point is to offer an incentive not to join the commuter crowds in the Monday-Friday morning rush. As the TFL website says:
&quot;Can be used from 0930 Mondays to Fridays, all day Saturdays, Sundays and public holidays, on the day of validity and for any journey that starts before 0430 on the following day&quot;

And TFL seems pretty clear on the three day ticket to me:
&quot;Can be used all day on each day of validity and for any journey that starts before 0430 on the day following the expiry date&quot; must mean that a three day ticket bought any time on Saturday and is valid all day Saturday, Sunday, Monday and up until 0430 Tuesday.

Peak period begins at 04:30 and extends to 09:30 weekdays (<i>i.e.</i>, TfL &quot;calendar days&quot; begin at 04:30) All other time is off-peak.

So the 3-day travelcard you activate on Saturday will allow you to board transit until 04:30 Tuesday (even though the valid dates on it might read 14-OCT-2006 to 16-OCT-2006).

(But do check out your PAYG costs before you commit to a 3-day. It only comes in a Peak version for &pound;15.40 whereas three days of PAYG caps at &pound;13.20)

ttt