Dear EnglishOne, I was not trying to <shut you up>; I was simply suggesting that highjacking Michelle's thread to bitch about the UK rail system was inappropriate. As far as I am concerned, you can start as many threads you want entitled <The UK rail system sucks>, or some such. As a twice a year visitor to your lovely country, who uses the trains extensively, I would disagree but, then again, that is what discussion forums are supposed to be for.

I really do not know why I have so upset you, but please do not blame the Americans, I am Canadian.

Ron, then substitute 'american' for 'canadian' in my post. I should have knownit wasnt an american; I have been treated with nothing but courtesy when visiting the USA. Please do not critique my opinions/messages in future - as you say, this is a DISCUSSION board - a free speaking board hopefully, for people to say whatever they feel.....AND... the Brits criticising the Rail system is a national pastime - I think that aspect might have gone over your head. Rather like us discussing weather - we do it all the time.

I think you need to put your toys back in your pram, EnglishOne.

To try to return this topic to the subject of British train fares, I cannot believe that you need to spend so much on buying a pass. Last week, I was in Scotland and bought a Scotrail pass giving four days' travel on trains and Caledonian MacBrayne ferries for £89. It also gives discounts on some other ferries and buses. I bought this on the day I arrived at Edinburgh Waverley station (the pass is valid from the English border, but my journeys from and to England were outside the period covered by the pass). Full details are on www.scotrail.co.uk. Most other British train companies offer cheap fares of one sort or another.

Ok, this is what is confusing me:

1. The rates of L129 round trip to Bath and Edinburgh that I've found on Qjump, Britrail and Scotrail,ARE the Apex rates. Is it maybe so high because I will be there in July?

2.I've been to the suggested websites and for the dates I need to travel I can not find anything closed to L25 as mentioned in this thread.

3.My brother is a teenager still in High School. Trust me, my three brothers all need supervision-they are at that diffcult age where sometimes you want to pretend you don't know them in public.

What am I missing!?

I am familiar with the Scotrail 89L pass and considered buying it along with a 4 day flexipass on Britrail-however, for 2 people it is $70-$80 more expensive to do it this way and we are betting that the ferries we need won't be that expensive. And if they are, well- we'll live with it.

Maybe it is the fact that I'll be travelling 7/16-7/27 which is peak season?

Also, I didn't mean for this to turn into Britrail or Uk bashing and then US, Canadian bashing. Having a sucky system and poor customer service, are not unique to any one culture.

I do find it amazing that a destination as popular as London hasn't seen improving customer service as a way to help their bottom line. Even if Britrail is an unrelated agency, if I were in charge of tourism in the UK, I would be writing them letters insisting that it is criminal for people like me to be so damn confused after days on the internet trying to figure out what pass to buy.

To get the cheapest rates, make sure you're not travelling on a Friday (ticket prices are higher). Best to avoid weekends altogether, if you can. Trains are likely to be busier, and therefore cheap tickets will be harder to come by.

Michelle, I still do not understand what you are doing wrong. I just went to qjump and for July 16 to Bath Spa, departing London at 9:45 and returning at 17:52, I get Apex return for £18.50, Super Advance return for £28, First Apex return for £42.60, Standard open return for £83 and First open return for £128.

A comment on your itinerary that I meant to make yesterday ? do you realize that Glastonbury is only about 25 miles from Bath? An overnight visit to Bath to see them both might make more sense than two separate day trips.

Regarding the lack of customer service, it occurs elsewhere as well. Maybe the staff is busy but I would think they are not that busy as to ignore emails asking for further help. This has happened to me recently when I tried to get some information as I'm not familiar with the routes I'm interested in. I emailed SNCF 3 times and have not gotten a response yet.
The best rail website customer service that I have encountered is Swiss Rail's. Very helpful and prompt in their replies.

Ron:

Thanks for the information,I'm going to go check again and see if I can match your results.

Maybe the problem is we are a group of 7 which means that the passes, while expensive, are still better than paying point to point for 7 people (2 kids, one youth). 18.50L for seven people is about $209+ US- that could be one adult flexipass for 4 days with a free kid.

Maybe when you have 7 people there is no inexpensive way to travel.

Also, can you give more information on Glastonbury?

I would be willing to stay overnight in Bath/Glastonbury.

Glastonbury doesn't seem to be a train stop, do you take a taxi?

Thanks!

Michelle

Kert, toys safely back in pram!

Ok, I went to Qjump and it's better,
for 5 adults (one technically a youth) and 2 kids, total roundtrip Apex fare
to Bath is US$214

For 5 adults, 2 kids to Stratford-
fare is US$229 round trip

And I guess I'll count the fare to Bath twice since I can't seem to find a closer stop to Glastonbury.

So three daytrips from London would cost
$443.

Now for the train to Edinburgh from London, it would be US$290.

We are at $733.08

Now for Edinburgh to Inverness, that is US$313 for all 7 of us.

So $733.08 and $313 are $1046 to date

And finally, the sleeper from Inverness to London, and here's the kicker, $1085.64 for seven people.

We are now at $2131 and we haven't even covered travel to the airport or in London.

Moral: Never have a group of seven that needs transport in the UK.

At least with the passes, we might save $100 between all seven of us!

Michelle

Michelle (violet2), may I suggest since you use computers all the time that you go to google and search for Glastonbury.

Well, let me make it simpler and suggest you use this:

http://www.glastonbury.co.uk/

Oops, the math idiot strikes again,I forgot to add in the fare for Glastonbury.

So my real total is $2360.64 for seven people for all those train trips.

I think passes will be the way to go.

Let me know if you have any better ideas for 7 people.

Thanks

Actually I've been to the Glastonbury site several times and it looks from their info I'll have to take a taxi.

I didn't realize it was off the beaten path so to speak-hopefully that means smaller crowds.

OH and one more thing, I looked at Rick Steve's site-very helpful. They should get a prize or Britrail should offer a link to them.

I did email them one question as Rick Steve's site says passes can be used for sleepers but I didn't get that impression from Britrail and Scotrail.

If Rick Steve's is right and Britrail/Scotrail are just being vague, those passes will really save me some money.

Just now took a look at the prices for an 8 day standard class Britrail Flexipass:
If one orders a Family pass, the two kids ( if they are younger than 15) travel free with each paid adult fare of $349 and the youth fare is $245.

That gets the 7 of you unlimited travel for 8 days,with no time of day travel restrictions.
Seems like a reasonable deal to me.

For sleeper travel, if you have a rail pass, then you have to pay just the sleeper supplement which, from memory, is around £30 a night. Compartments have two bunks: if you have a second-class ticket, two people share; if you have a first-class ticket, you get a compartment to yourself (and the upper bunk is folded away).

violet2/Michelle

First, to answer one of your original questions: the pass is name/passport specific, it is a huge no-no to give your pass to another tourist to use.

I suddenly realized that your itinerary is creating your problems, not your choice of ticket/pass. You are making several daytrips out of London, which is always an expensive point of origin and destination. You also have 5 adults and 2 kids; is there a reason why you are not getting out of London and renting a car or two, stopping at some of your chosen destinations along the way?

I think we skipped the car rental due to the size of the group, figuring that it would just add to expenses on top of rail travel we can't avoid. Or,in other words, we would have to pay for trains AND car rentals (note plural)- it would probably work out to be the same. Also, I don't think we want to drive-we'll be tired and jetlagged and have no idea where we are going. I don't think the people in the UK deserve to be subjected to us behind the wheel.

Actually, the clarification on the sleeper issue is a BIG help and would take our budget down by about $200 (for what my husband and I would have to pay).

Yes, we are doing a lot of travel which does drive up the cost. Not to mention we have to multiply a lot of costs by seven people.

At least with all the discussion on this thread I feel comfortable that the pass is the best deal (I still think that it is very expensive though).

So our total budget for 7 people would be $1600 (4 adults, 2 kids free, and 1 youth pass) instead of $2300- a savings of $600 based on the analysis we've done on the thread.

Thanks,

Michelle

I've just checked the prices on the Scotrail web site. If you already have a rail ticket, a sleeping berth is £33 (or £16.50 for a child). These should obviously be booked in advance.