carol

Has anyone been to enough caves in the Dordogne & Lot to be able to compare them? I'm particularly interested in comparing Rouffignac, Font de Gaume, and Peche-Merle. Is it well worth going to all of them or do one or two stand out as the best? Thanks*

wendy

They are all different and wonderful in their own ways...<BR><BR>St. Cirq?<BR><BR>

StCirq

Rouffignac is WAY down on the list of caves to visit in the Dordogne - if you're interested in engravings, it's OK, but Bara-Bahau is more interesting and far less "touristy." Font-de-Gaume is the last of the true original chromatic caves in the Dordogne and WELL worth a visit - you MUST make reservations, as the number of people admitted is limited daily. If you want an English tour, the limitations are even greater. I wish I had been to Peche-Merle, as I am tremendously inerested in this subject, bu I haven't made it there yet, though I've heard it is spectacular. I would guess reservations are required there as well, because all the caves suffer from deterioration of the pictures from human breath.<BR>Other sites to see in the Dordogne include La Roque-St-Christophe,Les Combarelles, Le Cap Blanc, L'Abri Pataud....there are literally more than 150. And don't discount Lascaux II, which is a replica but which nonetheless will give you goosebumps.<BR><BR>

cmt

I'm no expert on this, having been to only two caves with prehistoric art: Combarelles and Font de Gaume. Both were wonderful, stimulated my imagination, made me think, and left me with puzzling unanswered questions. <BR><BR>Both require reservations, but Combarelles is less visited, a longer walk outside of town (Les Eyzies de Tayac), and only allows a very small group in at a time. I was able to buy a ticket in the a.m. for a visit the same afternoon. I think Font de Gaume must be reserved far ahead, but since I saw that one with my tour group, I didn't have to worry about that. Our group touring Font de Gaume was about 15, while the group in Combarelles was only about 6, I think.<BR><BR>Combarelles had drawings with beautiful lyrical lines. The horses seemed to have genuinely sweet facial expressions. Since these drawings were made supposedly long before animals were domesticated, I was amazed that the artists seemed to have such a friendly feeling toward these huge wild animals. The way they drew them suggested that they had an opportunity to observe them up close, that they liked them, and that they were not afraid of them. Font de Gaume had colored drawings, some of them huge. Some of the browns, though now faded, must have been very rich and varied, shaded with an interesting range of reddish to black tones. Again, the almost tender depictions of the animals suggested to me that the artists had real affection for these animals and weren't afraid of them. For example, there's a drawing of one antelope licking the forehead of another! Many of the drawings of animal groupings had a real sense of both movement and perspective, and that made me wonder how Europeans managed to UNlearn perspective, only to have to RElearn it during the Renaissance. Some of the animals depicted are ones long gone or ones we don't associate with Europe (hippos, mammoths).<BR><BR>Since i saw Font de Gaume with an American walking tour group, we had an English-speaking guide. In Combarelles, where I went on my own, I don't think there were official English speaking guides (or maybe there were by special arrangement). The tour was in French, but the very nice guide spoke clearly and slowly so a German couple and I could understand, and if we didn't know a word in French when asking a question, we asked in English ans she understood. The guides seemed to have great love and respect for the caves.<BR><BR>Some advice: Be prepared to NOT wear a hat or backpack in the cave, because you must not bump into the wall. If you need glasses or contacts, wear them (not sunglasses) because you'll need all the visual acuity you can muster. You need to read behind the faint lines and tints to imagine what the complete drawings must have looked like.

StCirq

BEAUTIFUL observations, CMT!<BR><BR>

wendy

I agree with cmt! I must admit, I wasn't prepared to be so moved by 'cave art'...it was amazing also to hear that these prehistoric cave dwellers are considered artists in the way that they used the natural curves of the walls and ceilings to create the most realistic depictions possible...they didn't just pick a random spot to draw....these paintings (because of the curvature of the surface) had incredible shoulder and hind muscles, jaw lines and even eye brow bones...slight bumps in the surface turned a once non descript wall into a belly, a back, or muscles in a chest...they were absolutely beautiful.Guides use laser pointers to outline objects for you and you are more aware of each curve carefully chosen by the artist.<BR><BR>In Lascaux II, the guide leads you into the large main cavern where they turn off the lights for a few minutes and light a candle and wave it back and forth across the ceiling in this pitch dark cavern to show you what it looked like illuminated by candlelight, which gave me goosebumps to see the paintings on the ceiling almost come to life when the flame flickered! You were transformed back in time and could see a whirl of large bulls in movement chasing horses and deer. You could imagine what it was like to be in there under such conditions...and quite impressive as you are standing under these enormous paintings and one of them is 18 ft long/wide! <BR><BR>Going through these caves I kept asking myself, "Why? Why here? Why draw these things?" Especially when we down into Rouffignac! The paintings here date around 11,000 BC but this cavern that you go into by electric train, takes you (I beleive a mile into the earth) into pitch darkness except for the front headlight, taking you past ENORMOUS pits (bear lairs) as well as (what I thought were water streak marks worn into the rock from ceiling to the floor) turned out to be bear claw marks and I then realized these people were sharing and fighting for cave space with these enormous bears???! Until you are in these caves and are transported back into their world, you just don't realize...in here there are wooly mammoth drawings and the end of the tunnel was like being under a prehsitoric sistine chapel ceiling with so many of them together...<BR><BR>Peche-Merle was much different in that you were walking through large chambers with rock formations from floor to ceiling, twisting anc curving into the wildest shapes and the floors were puddled with water...the cave formations were beautiful, but nothing compared to the 'negative' hand prints on the wall...instead of putting the entire hand into red/black ocher and 'stamping' the wall, they traced the hand by holding it still and flat against the wall and I couldn't believe I was looking at 10,000-20,000 year old hand print...Prehistoric man performed religious rites in these caverns too which were about a mile in length, at least what we walked through.<BR><BR>There are many others sites to see in the region, and sometimes when you think you've seen enough of the cathedrals and chateaux in one day, I spent a week here exploring all the shelters, caves and trogdolyte village remains, and never saw the same thing twice.<BR><BR>You have to be careful of the walls, and guides will remind you to keep your elbows in, they do show you low paintings where crouching and kneeling is sometimes necessary and good shoes with grips are needed! English speaking guides are easily arranged with enough notice and do an excellent job of 'painting a picture for you' of life back then!<BR><BR>Come to think of it, with all that natural lush beauty, prehistoric art AND fabulous food, I'm ready to go back...NOW!

jo ann

I can't add much to the beautiful descriptions already listed (I would guess that your question has been answered: they are different enough to suggest visiting several!) but: in 1990 I was on a bicycle tour in that area. Of the 3 spots I visited I only remember the name of the primary one: Font de Gaume. I was also struck forcibly by the perspective: I remembered learning in grade school that a key of Renaissance art was that they learned perspective, so I too was amazed to see the perspective involved in their art; I remember thinking for the first time of all that was lost in the "dark" ages, and obviously even earlier! The guide told us that these drawings had been made over a 2,000 year time period, and someone in my group made the soft comment: Just think, we often consider all of our history to be 2,000 years (this was in 1990), and they spent that same time period coming in here to paint! Mind altering! <BR>Another interesting point made by our guide was the fact that each painting was perfect; the techniques had been mastered and practiced by the artists elsewhere. You wondered: where? what was daily life like?<BR>Our group also visited a spot that had been accidentally discovered during highway construction - you might know the name of it. It was a large overhang area, with sculpted horses and other animals arranged almost in a mural, probably 30 or 40 feet across. It had been a shelter and not a "religious" or hidden area. No one else was there, and our group got really into the mood of the place, imagining the firelight flickering at night and making the animals seem to move.<BR>I returned to the area 2 years ago but hadn't known to try for advance tickets, and we were quickly through the area. That's a regret the I feel a need to correct!

anon

Pat and Fred, topping FYI.

Pat and nice Fred

Thank you! That was a great idea! Our trip is going to be wonderful!

Carol

Carol - Don't miss the Gouffre de Padirac, which basically is a big hole in the ground. You take an elevator down. It is part walking thru interesting caves and part riding in a small boat in an underground river. I've never been to anything quite like it. It is east of the small town of Martel, which I also <BR> recommend. It is NE of Rocamadour, which also isn't to be missed, in my opinion. Have a great time. Carol

carol

Thanks, everyone for your great descriptions. We're back now, and we made it to Font de Gaume, Lascaux II, Gouffre de Padirac & Peche Merle. They were all wonderful, and I couldn't really add anything to the wonderful descriptions provided here except to say that Peche Merle has beautiful paintings as well as the handprints, a prehistoric adolescent's footprint & spectacular calcite formations.

carol

If you notice any websites with PICTURES of the prehistoric engravings in the newly discovered grotte de Cussac in Buisson-de-Cadouin (Dordogne), would you post the links here? Thanks.

Betty

I don't know of any websites with pictures of the engravings in the grotte de Cussac, but you can see a short video of some of them by going to www.tf1.fr/news/ Scroll to the bottom of the page and do a search for "Cussac" and it will bring up news reports from July 4. You have to have Realplayer or Windows Media to get it. It will be more informative, of course, if you can understand the French, but even if you can't, you can still appreciate the pictures. They say that Cussac is to engravings what Lascaux is to painting. E-mail me if you need more help with tf1.

cmt

Thank you, Betty. I had no trouble getting the videos to work. (It still amazes me when moving pictures and sound can come from my computer!)

Mary

This is a great thread. I would really like to visit these caves myself. Does anyone know how far in advance you need to make reservations for Font de Gaume, Peche-Merle, and Lascaux II if travelling in October or May (that is, not during the high tourist season)?

Liz

Are these caves open (by reservation) year-round or do they close for the winter? Specifically, would there be a chance of getting into some of them the week after Thanksgiving? Planning a late Nov/early Dec. trip to either Provencd or Dorgogne, then business in Paris. Which region will depend on whether the caves are available then.

s.fowler

Topping for some more help on hours.

xxx

interesting, but doesn't all the human breath damage the artwork, even if the numbers of visitors are limited?

StCirq

The caves are open year-round except when, as happens from time to time, there is some restoration work going on at them. Scientists don't stop work in winter, and scientists make up a large part of the visiting public to these places. <BR>As for human breath damaging the artwork, Lascaux II is a reproduction and thus cannot be damaged. The rest of the caves limit the number of visitors and presumably have figured out the number of visitors per day they can let in without causing any damage. There are several new cave discoveries in the Dordogne that will never allow visitors other than the occasional expert because they are deemed too fragile to withstand any disturbances whatsoever. I think we can trust the local authorities and experts to know which caves can safely be visited without causing damage.

Jeannette

I just returned from the Dordogne. I saw Lascaux II, Rouffignac, Font de Gaume, Lacave and Gouffre de Padriac. <BR>For cave paintings, I liked Lascaux II the best. I didn't care for Font de Gaume because the cave was narrow and the paintings were faded and difficult to see. However, my husband thought highly of it because it was authentic and not a reproduction. Rouffignac was completely different. I really enjoyed taking the little train deep underground and seeing how spooky the cave galleries were. The paintings were good too. <BR> <BR>But, more than the paintings, I thought Gouffre du Padriac was one of the most outstanding natural wonders I'd ever seen. It's unbelievable. You start by descending 300 stairs (or using an elevator) to river level. You walk along a canyon of amazing formations to a river flowing underground and you take a punt boat to a lake area to tour waterfalls, lakes and tremendous caverns. It's not difficult to imagine you're on another planet and that there's an alien culture that lives underground. Fantastic in the true sense of the word -- DON'T MISS IT. <BR> <BR>Lacave is close to Rocamadour (as is Gouffre du Padriac) and while its formations are wonderful, see it before you see Gouffre du Padriac since Gouffre is so much more astounding. <BR> <BR>By the way, our guide told us that there is damage being done to Lascaux II due to the carbonic acid in people's breath but that an air recirculating system has been installed to prevent further damage. He said Lascaux I suffered a lot of damage because it was a closed cave with no air recirculation and so there was damage also from algae growing on the walls. <BR> <BR>Jeannette