Collioure & St. Remy or Arles?
Feb 3rd, 2006, 02:14 PM
#61
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Like I stated earlier, Dijon will most likely be dead on Sunday with all the shops closed. I've never been to Beaune on a Sunday, but it seem like the kind of town that has shops open - because it is much more touristy.
However, I don't think Beaune will take more than a couple of hours to explore.
The drive on the freeway from Coulloiure or Perpignan is not that scenic at all - lots of vineyards along the way but not much else. I've only driven the stretch between Provence & Beaune as far as Lyon. It's OK, but lots of commerce, nuclear power plants, etc.
My advice would be to maximize your time in Provence. It's been many years since we drove around the villages near Beaune & Dijon (we'll spend 4 weeks in this region in Sept) so I don't know what will be "happening" on a Sunday in the small villages. Sometimes, French villages can look quite dreary when all the shops are closed and "boarded up" with aluminum louvered shutters, or steel bars. St Remy, Gordes, l'Isle sur la Sorgue, Luberon, Les Beaux will be quite active on a Sunday. Perhaps what I would do is to visit the market in l'Isle sur la Sorgue on Sunday morning, then at 11:30 drive to the Avignon TGV station (30 mins - much less traffic on Sundays) and take the 12:40 TGV to Dijon and get there at 3:30 which is enough time for a look around and for dinner with your friend's friends.
Stu Dudley
However, I don't think Beaune will take more than a couple of hours to explore.
The drive on the freeway from Coulloiure or Perpignan is not that scenic at all - lots of vineyards along the way but not much else. I've only driven the stretch between Provence & Beaune as far as Lyon. It's OK, but lots of commerce, nuclear power plants, etc.
My advice would be to maximize your time in Provence. It's been many years since we drove around the villages near Beaune & Dijon (we'll spend 4 weeks in this region in Sept) so I don't know what will be "happening" on a Sunday in the small villages. Sometimes, French villages can look quite dreary when all the shops are closed and "boarded up" with aluminum louvered shutters, or steel bars. St Remy, Gordes, l'Isle sur la Sorgue, Luberon, Les Beaux will be quite active on a Sunday. Perhaps what I would do is to visit the market in l'Isle sur la Sorgue on Sunday morning, then at 11:30 drive to the Avignon TGV station (30 mins - much less traffic on Sundays) and take the 12:40 TGV to Dijon and get there at 3:30 which is enough time for a look around and for dinner with your friend's friends.
Stu Dudley
Feb 3rd, 2006, 06:23 PM
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We have a house in Cassis. Your day 13 is too much. Either do Aix with a stop along the way to or from or come to Cassis and do as advised.
Cassis: Stroll thru the city. Have coffee and see the locals at La France. market is on wednesday and Friday, not big but very useful for locals. We buy most of our vegetables there. Few tourist items.
If you want a tourist market, go to Aix on Saturday or Isle sur la Sorgue on Sunday--arrive early.
Take the Calanque boat on the 5 Calanque tour. En Veau is the best. We often take the boat outto En Veau, disembarque, eat lunch and then hike back to town (well marked + maps at the book store)
Lunch is best at Nino. Bruno is the owner. Tell him Stephen sent you. If you are four or more ask for the table exterieur. Order the large broiled shrimp and drink one of the local rose wines. We eat lunch at Nino most every Sunday when in town.
Drive up the Route du Crete over Cap Canaille which goes to La Ciotat. There are some SPECTACUAR vistas along the way. Stop and walk to the edge. Lock your car!
From La Ciotat, it is very easy to get back on the autoroute and return to your base (about 1 - 1 1/2 hours.
Cassis: Stroll thru the city. Have coffee and see the locals at La France. market is on wednesday and Friday, not big but very useful for locals. We buy most of our vegetables there. Few tourist items.
If you want a tourist market, go to Aix on Saturday or Isle sur la Sorgue on Sunday--arrive early.
Take the Calanque boat on the 5 Calanque tour. En Veau is the best. We often take the boat outto En Veau, disembarque, eat lunch and then hike back to town (well marked + maps at the book store)
Lunch is best at Nino. Bruno is the owner. Tell him Stephen sent you. If you are four or more ask for the table exterieur. Order the large broiled shrimp and drink one of the local rose wines. We eat lunch at Nino most every Sunday when in town.
Drive up the Route du Crete over Cap Canaille which goes to La Ciotat. There are some SPECTACUAR vistas along the way. Stop and walk to the edge. Lock your car!
From La Ciotat, it is very easy to get back on the autoroute and return to your base (about 1 - 1 1/2 hours.
Feb 5th, 2006, 11:12 AM
#63
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Thank you Stevep33. That seems like a wonderful way to spend the day. I appreciate all the detail you’ve provided – the drive sounds especially lovely! We’ll plan on heading for Cassis first thing in the morning, arrange our boat trip, then enjoy Cassis and a meal at Chez Nino. Aix-en-Provence may have to wait for another day.
As much as I’d like to spend more time in Provence on this trip, I know that many things we’d like to do will have to wait for another time. Now I’m thinking that it makes the most sense for us to spend the last 2 nights of our trip in Dijon near the rail station. Beaune sounds like a nicer place to stay, perhaps, but this gives our friends more flexibility to arrange visits with their acquaintances, and I think we’ll have more than enough interesting things to do in the Dijon/Beaune area. Since we’ll arrive in Dijon on Saturday, the shops will be open (until 19:00, I believe). On Sunday we can day trip by bus or train to Beaune for wine tastings, winery tours, l’Hotel Dieu, Musee du Vin de Bourgogne or whatever we are in the mood for. Then on Monday morning, we can easily roll out of our beds and onto the early train for CDG.
Back to my car versus train question, I’ve tried to compare the train and car options for the Provence to Dijon portion of the trip. Only one in our group will have a reduced fares card. In either case Day 11 will likely be:
Day 11 (Tuesday): Depart via train from Collioure at 12:45 PM, arrive Avignon TGV at 16:49, 4 days rental car, 4 nights in St. Remy
This is what I’ve come up with, but maybe I’m missing something.
By Train to Dijon:
Day 15 (Saturday): Drive from St. Remy to Avignon TGV, turn in rental car, depart via train at 12:39, arrive Dijon at 15:28, 2 nights in Dijon near rail station, day trip Sunday to Beaune.
Cost and time - taking train to Dijon:
Avis rental car 4 days 270 euros
Tolls and petrol per Michelin: 1euro
Train fare for 4 people: from 164 euros (prem) to 208 euros (regular)
Total cost: 435 euros to 479 euros
Estimated total time (drive St. Remy to Avignon, return rental, board train to Dijon): 4 hr. 44 min.
OR
By Car to Dijon:
Day 15 (Saturday): Drive from St. Remy to Dijon, arrive mid-afternoon, turn in rental car, 2 nights in Dijon near rail station, day trip Sunday to Beaune.
Cost and time - drive to Dijon:
Avis rental car 4 days 270 euros
Tolls and petrol per Michelin: 69 euros
Total cost: 338 euros
Estimated total time (drive St. Remy to Dijon, return rental): 5 hr. 8 min.
Taking the train for this portion of the trip seems to take roughly the same amount of time and will cost about 99 – 141 euros ($124 - $176) more than driving, though maybe I’m not considering everything I should be. Perhaps this is a difficult drive for those unfamiliar with driving in France?
Stu and others familiar with this route, please let me know what you think.
Thanks!
Rainbow
As much as I’d like to spend more time in Provence on this trip, I know that many things we’d like to do will have to wait for another time. Now I’m thinking that it makes the most sense for us to spend the last 2 nights of our trip in Dijon near the rail station. Beaune sounds like a nicer place to stay, perhaps, but this gives our friends more flexibility to arrange visits with their acquaintances, and I think we’ll have more than enough interesting things to do in the Dijon/Beaune area. Since we’ll arrive in Dijon on Saturday, the shops will be open (until 19:00, I believe). On Sunday we can day trip by bus or train to Beaune for wine tastings, winery tours, l’Hotel Dieu, Musee du Vin de Bourgogne or whatever we are in the mood for. Then on Monday morning, we can easily roll out of our beds and onto the early train for CDG.
Back to my car versus train question, I’ve tried to compare the train and car options for the Provence to Dijon portion of the trip. Only one in our group will have a reduced fares card. In either case Day 11 will likely be:
Day 11 (Tuesday): Depart via train from Collioure at 12:45 PM, arrive Avignon TGV at 16:49, 4 days rental car, 4 nights in St. Remy
This is what I’ve come up with, but maybe I’m missing something.
By Train to Dijon:
Day 15 (Saturday): Drive from St. Remy to Avignon TGV, turn in rental car, depart via train at 12:39, arrive Dijon at 15:28, 2 nights in Dijon near rail station, day trip Sunday to Beaune.
Cost and time - taking train to Dijon:
Avis rental car 4 days 270 euros
Tolls and petrol per Michelin: 1euro
Train fare for 4 people: from 164 euros (prem) to 208 euros (regular)
Total cost: 435 euros to 479 euros
Estimated total time (drive St. Remy to Avignon, return rental, board train to Dijon): 4 hr. 44 min.
OR
By Car to Dijon:
Day 15 (Saturday): Drive from St. Remy to Dijon, arrive mid-afternoon, turn in rental car, 2 nights in Dijon near rail station, day trip Sunday to Beaune.
Cost and time - drive to Dijon:
Avis rental car 4 days 270 euros
Tolls and petrol per Michelin: 69 euros
Total cost: 338 euros
Estimated total time (drive St. Remy to Dijon, return rental): 5 hr. 8 min.
Taking the train for this portion of the trip seems to take roughly the same amount of time and will cost about 99 – 141 euros ($124 - $176) more than driving, though maybe I’m not considering everything I should be. Perhaps this is a difficult drive for those unfamiliar with driving in France?
Stu and others familiar with this route, please let me know what you think.
Thanks!
Rainbow
Feb 5th, 2006, 11:50 AM
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Unless you are on a very tight budget, the cost should not play a factor - you've come this far, so optimize the "pleasures", not the cost. Sounds like it pretty much the same anyway.
I would drive the car if you're planning on 2 days in Dijon. On Sunday, there won't be much to do in Dijon, so use the car to go to Beaune or just wander around the winegrowing towns.
I like taking trains for long trips at the beginning or end of a vacation when I don't need a car anymore. In a train, all four of you can enjoy the view - in a car, one 1 will get a great view, & the other three only OK views (views from trains through side windows are better than views from the back seat, IMO).
Stu Dudley
I would drive the car if you're planning on 2 days in Dijon. On Sunday, there won't be much to do in Dijon, so use the car to go to Beaune or just wander around the winegrowing towns.
I like taking trains for long trips at the beginning or end of a vacation when I don't need a car anymore. In a train, all four of you can enjoy the view - in a car, one 1 will get a great view, & the other three only OK views (views from trains through side windows are better than views from the back seat, IMO).
Stu Dudley
Feb 6th, 2006, 07:41 AM
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Thank you, Stu, for reminding me to step back and keep my perspective – to optimize pleasures instead of cost! I think I’ve been getting lost in the many details of planning this trip. (I still need to take a closer look at your Luberon Hill town and Dentelles drives to see if maybe we could do a 1 day drive that would combine a little of both.) Your idea of keeping the car until Sunday evening in Dijon sounds great - it looks like the Avis agency at the Dijon rail station is open on Sundays from 17:15 to 21:15.
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate everyone’s help. Now that I have a vision of our trip, I can finish our hotel reservations, and then take more time to learn more about the areas we’ll be visiting. I may make one more pass through everyone’s replies and then post a reply with the final itinerary, just for easy reference.
Thanks again!
Rainbow
I can’t tell you how much I appreciate everyone’s help. Now that I have a vision of our trip, I can finish our hotel reservations, and then take more time to learn more about the areas we’ll be visiting. I may make one more pass through everyone’s replies and then post a reply with the final itinerary, just for easy reference.
Thanks again!
Rainbow
