MellowFellow07

Hello fodorites, myself and a few (2 or 3) of my buddies and I are looking to take an approximately 4-week tour of Europe beginning next June. We aren't sure what is realistic to fit into this time period. Our early plan is to begin by flying into London, hitting some hot spots in England (London, perhaps Edinburgh in Scotland or Dublin), France (Paris, Normandy, Loir river valley maybe, southern coast), Germany and perhaps some other eastern West Europe destinations (Switzerland?), Italy (Florence, Rome, and venice or milan), and Athens, and fly out of Athens. We are aware that unexpected delays and/or expenses will arise but we don't really know how to plan that in. Is this much of a breadth too unrealistic, if we travel almost exclusively by train and try to schedule overnight trips to save money on hostel/hotel stays? Obviously we aren't looking to tour everything in each country, but instead a "best of" trip.

We're looking to stay in hostels and pack light. As college students we don't mind not staying in a 4-star hotel, but we want something safe and at least clean. One of us has visited Belgium but the others have never been to Europe.

When should we start planning all this? Absolutely any advice you have would be fantastic. I'm going to buy Rick Steves' books and educate myself in the meantime.

MellowFellow07

Oh, we are coming from the Southern US.

zeppole

The "best" of Europe -- even for generic "college guys" ;-) -- is different for everybody (but let's hope not for the 3 or 4 of you).

I notice Spain isn't included in your "best" of Europe. Yet it's a fantastic destination for many college guys.

Some people would steer you right to the beer towns, hiking towns and beach towns. But are perhaps the 3 or 4 of you more interested in wine, pasta, art or classical music? In which case you might want to spend less time in Greece and Germany and more time in Italy and Vienna -- and so it goes.

Some young people have a wonderful time using their Eurail passes to bomb all over Europe whimsically.

Others do best by nailing down ahead of time what's most important to them -- beach time and history in Greece? Nightlife in Amsterdam and Berlin? Off the beaten track in Spain? Cosmpolitan sophistication in Paris and Torino? Motorcyles? Theatre jaunts? Farm animals? Castles?

I'm not sure Rick Steves' demographic is college guys. More like retirees. Take a look at some Rough Guides too.

Have a wonderful time!

ellenem

Lonely Planet may offer better advice for the type of trip in which you are interested.

You plan a four-week trip, let's assume 28 days, and have named 10 destinations (not counting the "or" places you mentioned. Changing locations/hotels/hostels can eat up at least half a day each time, be aware you may lose 5 days to traveling from place to place. Put all this into play as you fine-tune your itinerary.

For info about train passes many recommend contacting Byron at B.E.T.S. 800-441-2387 for great guidance.

Trains will cover much of your interests but nowadays it's also good to consider inexpensive intra-Europe airlines. You can do some research for how your destinations may be connected by air at whichbudget.com.

zeppole

Oh, also -- since you posted "Absolutely any advice you have would be fantastic" -- I advise all of you to rent a copy of "Before Sunrise" and watch it before you go.

janisj

even taking overnight trains will not net you enough time for all those destinations.

Adding in the maybe's, you have London, Edinburgh, Dublin, Paris, Normandy, Loire Valley, South of France, Germany (that is a biiiig place), somewhere in 'eastern/western Europe', Switzerland, Florence, Rome, Venice, and Athens

That is 14 destinations give or take 2 - and not counting Milan. I would plan on not more than one overnight train every 5 or 6 days.

W/ travel time you will have less than a full day in most of those places. Overnight trains will help a little. But there are no overnight trains between some of them, and anyway -- a steady diet of sleeper trains gets pretty old pretty fast.

ljherr

For a group of college guys, I would highly recommend Prague. I know it's changed a lot since I was there in college (1998), but I still think you guys would love it. (Plus, you can have the experience of going to an Absinthe bar!)

When I was your age (MAN that makes me sound old!), the sleeper trains really didn't phase me at all. I used the "Let's Go" series of books as a hostel resource when I went, and they were all fairly decent. (And I'm a girl, so likely a little more particular than a group of guys.) The Rail Europe site would probably be a good resource for you to determine if you could fit in all the cities you are interested in - just lay out the time it takes to travel between cities and how long you want to be in each. (Personally, I would have each person pick their "must see" city and plan on spending the most time in those. -- And if it helps, my "must see" city would either be Innsbruck, Austria or Vienna, Austria.)

Also keep Ryan Air in mind. It's an airline that is similar to Southwest in the States, but think REALLY CHEAP (like $20 for some tickets). You might even want to look into this as a possibility of getting between the cities before you look into rail... The issue is, when you start talking about going from Paris to the southern part of Germany, you're likely looking at a train ride of up to 12 hours.

Wherever you guys go, I'm sure you'll have a blast. Enjoy!!

janisj

ooh - not Ryan Air if you can avoid it. Some really nasty customer service/extra fees. easyJet is usually better for the same sort of low cost flights.

Weadles

My 22-year-old daughter took a trip similar to this four years ago. The hardest part was figuring out everyone's budget, since no one had the same amount to spend. I would urge you to consider this out FIRST before you come up with a list of where/when you want to go, since you may have to shorten the trip, or at the very least go to fewer and cheaper places.

Then, as a poster above suggested, all of you should come up with a list of places that you most want to see. From that, try to whittle it down to a reasonable six to eight places if you have a month to travel. That way, you won't be spending SO much time traveling, packing and unpacking. I'd look at LONELY PLANET, THE ROUGH GUIDE, and nix RIck Steves because I totally agree w/ the comments above.

Next, when you have come up with a real list, check out some of the websites like Hostelworld.com, which will give you availability in most European cities for your travel dates. You should also consider some 1 star hotels. Surprisingly, 1 or even 2 star hotels sometimes cost only as much as hostels, or are only a little bit more money. And they are usually better for both rooms and locations.

I would highly recommend if you do decide to go from mid June on, that you book ahead as much as possible so that you don't waste your days/nights looking for available hostels/hotels. I would start looking in late November, early December, although that might be a little soon for some places. IF you don't get return e-mails from smaller places, CALL them after the holiday season.

Also look into deals between cities on some of the low cost airlines like Easy Jet and Ryan Air. These can sometimes be a much better deal than trains between cities.

There are tons of student based websites, and I think through some of these you can buy an air pass for travel in Europe. Definitely look into that.

As for itinerary, I would start with the furthest point, check out a map for a logical order, and work your way back. For example: Athens, Rome, Florence, Nice, Barcelona, Paris, London, Dublin, home.

And lastly, VERY IMPORTANT!!!- make sure that your passports are current and that they don't expire for at least six months after your return date to the U.S.

Good luck!

zeppole

I also agree with the advice that each traveler should chime in about his "must see" destination. Not only is it fair, but it can be really eye opening to get out of your own head and imaginings. Maybe only one of you is really keen to experience Madrid or some such, but the rest of you might end up being really glad in the end you saw it.

lavandula

Since no-one else has mentioned it I would also recommend the Let's Go guides for up-to-date information on hostels, other cheap accommodation, food and a point of view that is decidedly younger - definitely geared to uni students. I don't think they are as good at talking about the sights you might want to see so perhaps prime yourself with the Rough Guides or even the Michelin Green Guides. They are comprehensive but a bit factual and dry. Maybe you guys could get together over a map and stick pins in where you want to go ...?

I also used to enjoy the freedom of a Eurail pass. You will find that for many trips it's not the most cost-effective way of travelling - certainly not any more - but it does allow you flexibility if say you decide to split up while travelling (and sometimes you might need some space) . It allows you to leave some parts of the trip unplanned, so you can factor in some down time if it suddenly gets too much, or if you want to spend more time on the beach in Crete than you originally thought. And it's already all paid for so if you start to run out of dough it's taken care of.

Also do think about having a couple of days off in the middle of the trip to do laundry, write postcards or just hang out. Going full pelt for 4 weeks can be a pain in the neck after a while and you lose nothing by having the occasional day to contemplate your own neighbourhood up close.

Lavandula

chazzarelli

I would think that using Hostels and Sleeper Trains at night would be a good way to help stretch the budget. As many have said above, going to all your places you mentioned would be a tough stretch in your time frame. But a concise route could help out - London - France - Amsterdam - through Germany, Switzerland and into Italy would work, and would allow you to see alot of Europe, utilizing night trains. You could stay a few nights at each spot, do a few day trips and you'd get a good mix of sites and things to do.

Aduchamp1

Since you are very young chances are you will return to Europe. So narrow it down a bit two weeks each in France and Italy would be wonderful and will easily occupy your time and attention.

Hans

First, what do you want from the trip?

You can cram in as much as possible, which will allow you to see a lot of the famous sights. But that means spending a large part of your time in transit or in preparing for the next stage ("okay, we have two hours to see xxx, then a quick lunch and on to the railway station").

Alternatively you might look for the kind of vacation where you meet someone, go out till four in the morning and then decide to go to the great festival you heard about. If you want that, you have way too many destinations.

Second, budget. Travelling between a lot of destinations is rather expensive. Some of the places on your list are rather expensive. If you go for cheaper places, as for example Berlin or Prague, you can do more things with the same money.

Booking flights can be fast and cheap. But it comes with less flexibility. You simply can't stay a day longer in a place while this isn't a problem with a train.

TDudette

I too would start at the furtherest and work your way back but that's because I'm always excited to leave but more anxious to get home. Here's a possible framework from which to start and depart:

FLY to Athens: 4 nights including day trips by ferry (or overnights) to an island or 2

FLY to Rome: 4 nights with side trip to Pompeii or others
Train to Venice or Florence and stay 3 nights
Train to Milan: 1 or 2 nights

FLY to Berlin or Geneva: Never been so can't suggest times/places

FLY to Nice, France: 3 nights with sides to area towns
Train to Paris: 5 nights or more to sides to Loire Valley

FLY to Barcelona or Madrid: 3 nights

FLY to London and see how much time you have left!

As a 64 y.o. woman, I might not have the same interests (ya think?!) as 22 y.o. guys.

peppermint79

Got to be honest, the best site I've seen and used for student travel - inspiration and everything else is STA Travel - check out the Europe section I think you'll find it enlightening!

http://www.statravel.com/cps/rde/xch...stinations.htm

Have a great time guys!

MFNYC

My daughter and her friends took a similar trip last summer with 2 of her friends. The Lets Go Europe guide was invaluable. All the hostels they stayed in were recommended in that guide and worked out well. Here's my thread with some of the trip info: http://www.fodors.com/community/euro...or-6-weeks.cfm

Right now I think your list is far too long for 4 weeks. You should look at a map to plot out your journey. You should also look into both train and flying. Some train routes are not that convenient and can be very lengthy. In those cases, flying may be better. There are several airlines that fly within Europe and are very inexpensive (Ryanair, Easyjey, Aegean, etc). Also consider travel time. Large cities like Paris, Rome and London need at least 4 full days.

Also, the hostels book up in advance if you are traveling in the summer months (although June is probably a little better than July/August), so advanced planning is helpful.

Palenque

For all the travel previsioned - and it is typical of younger travelers be sure to investigate the Eurail Youthpass, only for people under 26 years old and which will take you to practically every European country save Britain and passes even are valid on overnight ferries between Greece and Italy - and these boats are loaded with folks your age and can be quite a party if looking for that.
I suggest you keep your itinerary flexible as at your age on my first trips i inevitably met other folks on trains or in hostels and changed my previous plans.
Let serendipity dictate where you want to go next as well as things like the weather.
Anyway for loads of stuff on train travel in Europe as well as various passes i always spotlight these info-laden sites: www.ricksteves.com; www.seat61.com and www.budgeteuropetravel.com - download the latter's free and superb IMO European Planning & Rail Guide that has many itinerary suggestions and a wealth of info to plan such a trip.

Palenque

My daughter and her friends took a similar trip last summer with 2 of her friends. The Lets Go Europe guide was invaluable.> ditto MFNYC says about Let's Go Europe - invaluable tool to have along - its forte are cheap and decent accommodations - it will tell you where the dives are as well to avoid. Have your parents buy it for you as a Bon Voyage gift!

Lynnaustin

My son and friends are planning a similiar trip (look for them in the beer garden!).
Consider spending the majority of your time south (Italy and Spain) for two reasons: first, overall they are cheaper; and second, you can eat more for less (important for college guys).
London is expensive as is Prague. Since this is your first trip consider hitting just the big cities. I would save Greece for another trip.
You have had several suggestions for cities to visit from other posters. Choose what appeals to you but please consider Venice as a "don't miss". It is unlike any other place that you will ever visit.
On a final note, you say that your trip will be approximately four weeks. Can you stretch it to six?