ancestralvoices

My travel companion and I had a wonderful driving trip through many parts of England this past Summer(both left trip reports...well...he's a bit slow but getting there) and most of all enjoyed our visits to towns and villages that seemed little changed through the centuries. I was showing some pics to my aunt the other day and she pointed out that some of the historic towns we visited seemed to have many cobblestone streets, but others were smooth/asphalt and much newer. It got me thinking about which towns had the cobbles and which ones didn't--and I am now wondering why?

I remember that Rye, Shrewsbury, York, and Robin Hood's Bay had many cobbled areas, but am now trying to remember if any of the many Cotswold villages were cobbled as well? My pics show otherwise. Not that it matters, but I would like to ask people to name some cities, towns, villages that they know have still kept some of those wonderful old streets, and what the reasons were for their removal from otherwise historic towns?

So, to begin the list:
Rye
Shrewsbury
York
Robin Hood's Bay
Bath?

Also I immediately went to look at photos of Lavenham(did not have a chance to visit) and I cannot find one cobbled street in any pics. Surely this town has some?).

Thanks---hope this topic isn't too boring for readers, I'm just suddenly very interested!

annhig

mmm- I can't think of anywhere in Cornwall that has cobbles any more - perhaps I'm so used to them I don't notice?

but i don't think that can be the case as on our recent visit to what was East Germany, i really noticed them all the time.

if you want cobbles, go to Dresden, or Leipzig, or...

ancestralvoices

yes annhig I remember many German streets--Rothenburg, Dinklesbuhl(sp?)

and I do remember that Belgium and The Netherlands had many cobbled streets, so maybe on the continent they weren't removed as frequently?

Rye's cobbles were VERY prominent! I even wondered how high heeled ladies could manage them. Just read that Shaftesbury and Clovelly still have them.

hetismij2

Do you mean cobbles or paved?

Most Dutch towns have brick paving (setts) and I think a lot of British towns are using them now too. They are easier when it comes to road repairs and last longer than tarmac does.

Cobbles are stones and much rougher under foot, but better for horses. Most cobbles have been removed or just tarmacked over.

ancestralvoices

I do mean cobbles. I remember Bruges and Ronse and Lier(Belgium) having true cobbles, and Delft, Maastricht, Veere and some of the Frisian towns having them as well.--but I haven't been to the low countries for years. I also remember a beautiful village in Denmark called Aeroskobing having them. Still curious if there are more English towns or villages with them.

bellini

Some streets in Northern towns (far from tourist routes) still have cobbles. I used to live in one such street myself. A favourite activity on very hot days when I was a child was popping the tar'bubbles' which was melting in the sun. Not popular with my parents who had the job of scrubbing it off my clothes!

Hooameye

Portsmouth still has a couple (at least) of cobbled roads with tram tracks, Rugby Rd in Southsea and Broad St in Old Portsmouth.

Nonconformist

Here's a link to a recent news item saying that tarmac is cheaper to maintain tehse days.

I suspect that in previous generations (18th-19th century) it was the opposite problem, with streets left cobbled because locals didn't want the expense of paving them.

Nonconformist

I forgot the link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...shire-15473672

Nonconformist

And this story, about the charming village of Dunster, the fear is of being sued if anyone trips:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-somerset-11569523

PatrickLondon

Outside England, Edinburgh, of course.

You'll come across a few in odd parts of London. Presumably it all depended on the local traffic engineers in the different places as to when and whether a smooth ride for motorists, maintenance costs, tourist charm and/or a firm grip for horse-drawn traffic came first.

flanneruk

Cobbles are virtually (I'd say entirely, but who can ever be sure?) unknown in the Cotswolds, except just occasionally in bits of parish church closes and similar public spaces - where they've been kept to deter pedestrians and channel them to the more conventionally paved paths around their edge

The Cotswolds aren't cobble-free because the cobbles have been been recently removed. Obviously, traditional cobbles were cheaper to source than paving, but as labour costs grew they became costlier to install - and even sourcing the stones became expensively labour-intensive.

In the Cotswolds, most villages and most microtowns had practically no paving at all (not even for wheeled vehicles, and not even asphalting) until around WW2, when widespread airfield construction meant roads had to be paved for construction equipment, and subsequent access for ordnance.

By then, labour costs had inflated so dramatically, there was no alternative to flat paving: we jumped straight from the mediaeval philosophy (don't pave) to the post WW2 one (pave to deal with heavy usage). Incidentally, residents still frequently oppose surfacing in side streets, or installing separate pavements (as we call them in English) for pedestrians, because it makes a street look suburban. The fact that the word "pavement" has different meanings in English and American is a clue to how recent the idea of separating pedestrians from wheeled (or equine) traffic is.

Cobbling obviously can't work when there's heavy traffic, most towns' cobbles are impossible to keep when disabled access is needed, and we all need "disabled" access if we've broken a leg, had a gout attack or are just getting unsteady on our pins. Life in a busy town centre (and there's no such thing in Britain as an unbusy town centre) is just impossible with cobbles. There are very few places in Britain where it's practical to create a access-friendly zone in parallel to the cobbles. So throughout the country, there's been a struggle between extreme conservationists and extreme accessibilists (mainly cyclists and taxi drivers) over cobbles for the past half century, which generally the accessibilists have won.

Probably the best-known large cobbled area in the region is Oxford's Radcliffe Square, where there's ample space for an accessible perimeter around an access-unfriendly cobbled zone. In nearby Merton Street, one of Britain's last remaining city centre streets with a cobbled roadway, there's a strong argument from many cyclists (a lobby few in Oxford want to tangle with) to get rid of the cobbles.

What many observers fail to grasp is the huge range of conflicting demands for the use of tiny amounts of space in England's towns. We all simultaneously want towns to be pretty, easy to get to and around, stuffed with useful shops and not allow dirty commerce to ruin ancient buildings. You just can't achieve all four in a circle with a radius of a few hundred yards.

bilboburgler

"Cobbling obviously can't work when there's heavy traffic, most towns' cobbles are impossible to keep when disabled access is needed, and we all need "disabled" access if we've broken a leg, had a gout attack or are just getting unsteady on our pins. Life in a busy town centre (and there's no such thing in Britain as an unbusy town centre) is just impossible with cobbles. There are very few places in Britain where it's practical to create a access-friendly zone in parallel to the cobbles. So throughout the country, there's been a struggle between extreme conservationists and extreme accessibilists (mainly cyclists and taxi drivers) over cobbles for the past half century, which generally the accessibilists have won."

Cobblers!

Shaftesbury has some nice cobbles

Ackislander

I lived in the Cotswolds in the 1950's and have revisited periodically since. I have never seen a cobbled street, though I have to agree with flanneruk that I might have missed a church close, pub yard, or railway freight platform.

I am interested in his paving explanation. I always put it down to the local stone being lovely for buildings and even domestic roofs but far too soft for paving. I think I have a point here, but if the roads were not often paved until the war, which I can certainly accept, there would be no reason to import granite cobbles or setts at great extent from where? Pembroke?

RM67

Lots of towns and villages will have the odd cobbled street - it's rare to find the whole town centre cobbled, though, as most have been updated for traffic.

Also, there are different kinds of cobbles - you are probably thinking of the traditional round topped ones (which are quite bumpy and slippery) - the squarer flatter ones like sort of grey bricks are probably more common.

I think Butlers Wharf in London still has the rounded ones.

ancestralvoices

Wow, thanks for the responses. Flanner you never cease to amaze me.

I read up on the link regarding Dunster. Very interesting points of view. We noticed that in Robin Hoods Bay they kept the cobbles on the sides but had paved the center. Seems like a nice compromise(especially considering that very steep road leading down into the village).

Another, different question has come to mind and I'll post it in a new thread.

chartley

Rugby Road and Broad Street in Portsmouth last saw a tramcar in the 1930's, so those tramlines and cobbles have been uncovered by tarmac since at least then. In fact, I think I am right in saying that Rugby Road never actually had a tram service. The lines were laid for some more administrative reason. Perhaps I should get out more.

Many British towns and cities have laid cobbles recently in order to slow down the traffic and provide an olde worlde atmosphere. In other places, block paving has been used to achieve the same result. Cobbles were rarely constructed from local stone as a hard-wearing surface was needed. I understand that one of the sources was a layer of basalt called Dhu Stone on the top of Titterstone Clee Hill in Shropshire. You can read more about it at http://www3.shropshire-cc.gov.uk/roo...nd/ind_s04.htm.

stevelyon

The village of Nangreaves in Lancashire is cobbled - but not worth making a special visit for, unless you are a microbrewery collector and wanting to taste the real ale offered by Leyden Beers(brewed in the pub: The Lord Raglan there). Heptonstall in Yorkshire is cobbled and worth a sidetrip,its claim to fame are its links with Ted Hughes and Sylvia Plath (she is buried there). It is very old and authentic and very atmospheric. There are plenty of Lancashire towns that are cobbled but most I would give a wide berth.

Hooameye

"Rugby Road and Broad Street in Portsmouth last saw a tramcar in the 1930's, so those tramlines and cobbles have been uncovered by tarmac since at least then. In fact, I think I am right in saying that Rugby Road never actually had a tram service."

The Broad Street tarmac was removed in the 80's as I remember, the cobbles in Rugby Road have been there as long as I can remember, had a nasty experience when the front wheel of my bike got caught in them in the 1960's, still have the scars on my knee from that.

chartley

I went to school in Old Portsmouth during the 50s and 60s and spent my lunch hours at Sally Port and down by the entrance to the harbour. I remember that there were cobbles and tram tracks right at the end of Broad Street. However, I think a greater area of cobbles may have been uncovered at a later date.

At that time, the Isle of Wight car ferry used a slipway right at the end of Broad Street. I remember a family holiday on the Isle of Wight in the early fifties where our crossing was delayed because a car was left on the slipway with the handbrake off, and the car rolled into the harbour, preventing the ferry from berthing. We had to wait for the car to be pulled out, and I remember the car headlights being half full of water. I think it was an Austin Devon driven by a well-known Daily Express woman journalist.

Now if I could just remember what I am supposed to be doing this morning...