Nytraveler: Madrid is another top city I haven't yet viisited. From your advice, I know I am definitely going at the beginning of my trip in May and not towards the end to avoid the heat as much as possible. I will also try to stay as far from the center as possible. (Also going to visit Andalucia - Seville, Cordoba, and Granada - so no worries there. What things did you really enjoy that you would recommend, and conversely what would you advise to stay away from within the city?

TheFlyingScotsman - I will definitely return to Rome! Just maybe once I have more traveling experience under my belt (and know more Italian, I'm sure it'd help!)
Athens is another city I really would like to visit. I will make the historical ruins the focus of my trip (Acropolis, Acropolis Musuem, etc.). What else would you recommend to make the trip more enjoyable?

Tdudette and WeisserTee - Please tell me your favorite things about Milan! I hear such conflicting things about that city. Would love to hear your experiences.

Suze - What did you like/ not like about Amsterdam? What would you recommend doing for first time visitors?

WelltraveledBrit (again) and Andrew - So you would say the best way to enjoy Venice would be in the off season to avoid the mass amounts of people? If you don’t mind me asking, what times would this be?

Thanks for your responses!

In regards to Venice, I didn't suggest visiting off season (though that's not a terrible idea) - I suggested that DAYTIME is not a great time to be there, at least in the most popular areas, that is, near the train station and between Rialto and San Marco. But at night, Venice empties out and is much quieter. Morning is also a really nice time to walk around - you can see more of the "real" Venice: parents seeing their kids off to school, shopkeepers opening up and sweeping in front of their stores, chatting with each other; workers hauling in supplies from boats, etc.

It is possible to get away from the daytime crowds by getting off the main drags, too. But I found it better to do day trips during the day - to Verona by train our out to the islands like Burano by vaporetto.

I visited in both September and October. Still busy but probably not the worst time to visit. It's important to stay ON Venice and not on say Mestre - otherwise, you will miss out on much of the experience i.e. evening and morning walks in Venice, when it is so much quieter.

I think the key to Madrid is to go in the Fall or Spring, I can't imagine going in the summer. I loved Madrid in the spring and stayed in the center. I loved all the activity in the street and being able to walk out at 11:30-12am by myself and not be afraid. It also felt Spanish to me. I speak Spanish so perhaps it could be different for English-speaking tourists. I do admit that Spanish customer service is the pits for the most part-but kudos to the lovely older woman in the Palacio Real who gave me a wonderful impromptu tour of the Pharmacy(I think she was just happy someone spoke to her).

I also think sometimes you have to see a place a few times. My first time in Paris was in the middle of a spring snowstorm and freezing temperature. Ugh, hated every minute of it. But when I came again in May, I started to enjoy the city better.

As for cities never to visit again-Brussels. Aside from the Gran Plas and the music museum, it seemed cold, dull and just plain unfriendly. It didn't help that in the old church in the center of town, a gypsy woman spat at me after she held open the door and I didn't give her money.

Listen. Madrid, Barcelona, Athens, Helsinki were not our favorites, but we enjoyed all the cities we visited.

Obviously everyone has their own thoughts.

Our first visit to Europe was Amsterdam when my sister forced us to go while she was working there for a year.

We loved everything and that was our first of many trips to Europe.

Really quick post/comment but I just returned from Rome/Italy last night. Rome is one of my favorite cities and I've been there about ten times. It was unbelievably crowded and hot and I will not go back in September, I think May is much better.

I was pulled out of line at FCO for full body pat down, which is so incredibly ridiculous as a middle-aged blonde WASP, but it has happened often. Reverse profiling, annoying but happy to be sacrificed for security if that's what it takes.

Oh, enjoy the pat down and remember to say to the person, "ah, please scratch my back !". They get a kick out of it, and you may get a little one ! Have fun !

I don't think there's anywhere I've actually disliked but Lisbon and Edinburgh were two cities that didn't meet my expectations.

I had heard a lot about Lisbon but we had really poor weather (rain, rain and more rain) and we both got head colds--and the grubbiness got to me. There were things I liked--the people were fantastic, the setting is beautiful--and I would happily give it another try, but I'd stay in a nicer area. We stayed in Alfama and it was definitely atmospheric but also incredibly run down.

And Edinburgh was okay but too touristy for me. And I suppose not different enough (from where I live). Again, everyone was super friendly and we saw some nice things but it was just so so.

Outwest - please tell me more about your experience in Edinburgh. Where do you live now that you felt it was similar? What were your favorite areas? And what were things you'd suggest to avoid?

<which is so incredibly ridiculous as a middle-aged blonde WASP>

Come again??

": Madrid is another top city I haven't yet viisited. From your advice, I know I am definitely going at the beginning of my trip in May and not towards the end to avoid the heat as much as possible. I will also try to stay as far from the center as possible. (Also going to visit Andalucia - Seville, Cordoba, and Granada - so no worries there. What things did you really enjoy that you would recommend, and conversely what would you advise to stay away from within the city?"

Madrid is a BIG city ...staying as far from the center as possible you might end up in Toledo..
Not really, but if you stay in upscale, residential Serrano- Salamanca ( just north of Retiro
park) you will be close to attractions and away from the noise and hordes of tourists.

Madrid is one of my favorite destinations...been five times. Going again in a few days.

I like Madrid a lot too. I get to go occasionally for work and usually spend a few extra days there when I can. I like big cities though.

I have absolutely never considered the weather -- hot, cold or rain -- in my opinion of any city. I am a bit surprised that this would make anybody not like a city rather than just not liking the weather when they were there.

We will probably spend a few days in Madrid next year. We have been there many times over the past 40 years. I never tire of the museums and we have not been to Toledo in years. But my wife does not like Madrid at all and would skip it if our initial flights for Spain did not land there.

We too were disappointed with Lisboa, but would return and give it another turn. As we like many of the other Portuguese towns.

We found Vienna imperious and officious, although there were many worthwhile sights and places to eat. But on balance we would not return.

Hi Emily
'Aside from the Gran Plas '
What you write actually means 'big piss' in what would pass for Bruxelles dialect.
It is 'grand place' ... fwiw.
I love Bruxelles because I've been countless times but it is a city with quite a few flaws.

Rahmana,
Thanks for this fun thread. As for you being pulled by the police, this reminds me of a story my wife told : they, as a group, took a flight to Switzerland. They were about 40 people.
Upon disambarking, one guy from the group was pulled by the police for a check. He was the only black in the group...
The remaining people from the group all stopped by the swiss police and asked them 'can I also be controlled, please ?'.
Police was getting if not embarrased quite unhappy...

Some very interesting perspectives here!

I’ve liked many places that I have visited more than I expected – sometimes MUCH more! But with the exception of Opatija (which I found decidedly unpleasant) and St. Malo (which just missed the mark for me), I haven’t been anywhere that I liked LESS than I expected. And I didn’t plan to find much that would hold my interest in either of those places, so – by plan -- I only spent a couple of hours in Opatija and only one night in St. Malo. Not too disappointing at all, and really, how would I know if I hadn’t gone? I really can’t complain!

There have been a few places that I visited briefly and was glad to have seen, even if I didn’t particularly like like them – but then, these were places that I wanted to see, even though I didn’t particularly expect to like them. As examples, there are some beautiful things in Gstaad, but it was, as I expected, far too rich for my blood (so I was glad I gave Gstaad only an hour or so). At the other end of the spectrum, Warsaw is certainly not the most beautiful city I’ve visited, but I was glad to see the things that I had the chance to see during a brief visit there.

I’ve visited many places that I wish I’d given a bit more time than I had planned, but with the exception of Ronda, I’ve never felt that I’ve planned to spend too much time anywhere. (I loved the time I spent in Ronda – I thought it stunningly situated and was very happy with the things I saw and did in my time there -- but I felt ready to leave earlier than I had planned, and so I did.)

I suspect that part of the reason for my “success” is that I have very eclectic interests in travel. Perhaps even more importantly, I do a TON of research, and I carefully plan my time around the things that I want to see and experience.

I come back to something annhig and others have already said: Isn’t it wonderful that we travel for such differing reasons?

@ newbE – I agree. Mt. Dora?

@ pariswat – so what, exactly, about Atlanta disappointed you? ;-) Great story – thanks!

Our impressions of a place are coloured by many things other than the physical city in which we find ourselves: the weather (unlike Kerouac, it's really important to me); a special meal; a friendly encounter; a stunning piece of art; a special event; the person we're travelling with; the presence or absence of colour; the mood of the moment.

I'm sometimes hesitant to critique a city to friends because what I experienced was just a slice of time, seen through my eyes only.

I must admit that bad (i.e. cold and rainy) weather is more a factor for me than anything else.
I truly admire people who can have fun exploring a city in cool drizzle in late November.
OTOH, I had no problems in Madrid in late summer with temps around 40C.

Just returned from another week in Barcelona. Which still is the 2nd best city in the world for me to live in (though I probably could not afford the rent). This time, we found an apartment in Poble Sec - the neighborhood was great, just the apartment somewhat run-down but with a nice big patio.
It was an interesting week just a few days past the Catalan National holiday, the preparations for Merce week in full swing, free concerts here and there, and the campaigning for Sep 27 elections in almost every public square.

We found fabulous pintxos just around the corner (for €1/1.50 a piece) - and had *slightly* more expensive drinks at the rooftop bars in Raval and Eixample. But often we would just raid the next door neighborhood super(mini)market or the cheese vendor and have our own tapas at the long table in our patio - with a few (probably too many) bottles of those fabulous Reds from Southern Catalunya (D.O. Montsant is my personal favorite) which cost next to nothing.

I think we did see a lot of the city, though at a more relaxed pace and with only a few must-see items on our list.
It was more like getting a week off in your home town - just that the home town suddenly had a beachfront, palm trees, and beautiful modernisme buildings.

Looking back, I think no city has so far "disappointed" me - though I can perfectly understand that unpleasant encounters with the police or thugs can ruin the trip. Or the weather - but I think that's just me ;-)

I visited in both September and October. Still busy but probably not the worst time to visit. It's important to stay ON Venice and not on say Mestre - otherwise, you will miss out on much of the experience i.e. evening and morning walks in Venice, when it is so much quieter.>>

rahamana - the winter - January and February - might be thought to be the least crowded in Venice but it is the coldest season, can be very wet with high water [aqua alta] flooding the lower lying parts twice a day, which certainly could affect your enjoyment. also the middle part of February is likely to be very busy as it is Carnival, and when we were there last year in the first week, the most popular parts were hopping.

perhaps March?

rahmana92, here are some of the sights we visited in Budapest. The city is actually very rich in history and architecture, so perhaps I should give it another chance. For me, the Nazi-Holocaust-Communist-1956 Revolution experiences seemed to pervade the place.

A few sights:
--Dohany Synagogue, the Great Synagogue, Holocaust memorial, and museum
--Kiraly Baths – Turkish, from 16th century, built shortly after the Ottoman conquest, still functioning--take a plunge
--Castle district on Buda side
--Old metro cars, still operating
--River cruise (found this underwhelming)
--Gozsdu Udvar apartment-courtyard complex on Király utca 13; if you are interested in architecture, check this out. Not too far from the Great Synagogue; half a dozen connected courtyard and apartment buildings. It was empty and new owner investors were just starting a complete renovation. The dimensions and proportions of the archways and courtyards are very subtle, very impressive.

rahmana, I'm Canadian, so culturally Edinburgh isn't that different from here. But it's a beautiful city and I don't want to persuade anyone not to visit. We found the Royal Mile a little too touristy for our taste but enjoyed the architecture, particularly in New Town. And the people we met in both Edinburgh and Glasgow (which we preferred to Edinburgh) were super friendly.

I think it's important to go where you want to--lots of people on this board don't like Brussels, but we've been three times and always had a great experience.