WeisserTee

Dresden really is a wonderful choice. You have the small neighborhoods Ingo suggested as well as the heart of the old city and the Neustadt.

Last year, our December Christmas trip started in Baden-Baden and from there we went to Leipzig (one night), Dresden (six nights) and Berlin (3 nights). This December, we're going to start in Bremen, then on to Lubeck, then Berlin and finishing up in Dresden. We've booked an apartment at the Altes Dresden overlooking the Frauenkirche -- I've stayed there a few times before, including 4 weeks in 2011, so we're going back to a familiar favorite. FWIW, we didn't find the area around the Frauenkirche crowded during the day on weekdays, there were times when it was very quiet. We've timed our stay in Dresden this year to take in the large holiday concert performed outside the church -- we'll have a direct view from our apartment and can enjoy the performances without being part of the hordes.

I hope you have some snow, esp during your time in the Erzgebirge. As Ingo remembers, during my whole four weeks in December of 2011, there was no snow, I was so disappointed

Public laundromats are thin on the ground in much of Germany and Switzerland, so hopefully the place you choose for Dresden (or wherever you end up) has laundry facilities. That's one of the things we really appreciated at the Altes Dresden flat -- having our own washing machine. We'd put a load in around dinner, then hang everything on the heated towel racks or over the radiators to dry overnight.

Ingo

Weisser Tee - by " large holiday concert performed outside the church", do you refer to the Weihnachtliche Vesper on 23 Dec on Neumarkt square? If possible I attend this every year. It's wonderful. I agree that staying in those apartments at Neumarkt square has its advantages - you're right in the middle of everything. But since Melnq8 seems to prefer the small towns I recommended the quieter, charming neighbourhoods.

I also was so disappointed with the lack of snow most of the month December last year, even in the Erzgebirge ... but there's hope for this year, statistically and from the prospect of a hot summer that it seems to become. Usually a cold and snowy winter follows.

Melnq8

swandav - we've stayed in Garmisch a couple of times, but it seems a good place to spend the actual holiday - we'd like to revisit the Zugspitz, perhaps doing the train-chairlift-walk-chairlift-train combo we tried to do previously, but couldn't convey properly when buying tickets last time.

<< am wondering why you need to backtrack to Frankfurt instead of going directly to Bavaria after Dresden.>>

I misspoke - we'd fly one way, then take the train to Munich.

Thanks for all the suggestions and links, will look at them in depth.

swandav2000

Hhmmmm. I'm a bit confused by your description of "train-chairlift-walk-chairlift-train." AFIK, you can only ascend the Zugspitze by cogwheel train (to the platt, or glacier) and then by cable car to the summit. Or by hiking up.

Do you mean to take a cable car to Alpspitze and walk from there to the Zugspitze? I've never heard of that being done -- maybe that's why the ticket agent didn't understand. If that's what you want to do, you can just buy a single ascent to Alpspitze and then a single descent from Zugspitze. Many climbers buy one-way tickets all the time.

My hiking map does show a path from Alpspitze to the Höllentallangerhütte and from there to the Zugspitze, so I guess it's possible. Is that your plan?

s

Melnq8

I'm confused too swandav.

I think it's called the Garmisch Classic, a roundtrip with Alpspitz-Hochalm-Kreuzeckbahn cable cars...I thought there was a walk in there too, but perhaps only between stations.

We thought we'd bought tickets for this, but we evidently missed our stop and ended up at the top of the Zugspitz, where our tickets were rejected when we tried to get down. We explained our plight to the guy at the turnstile, and I think he just couldn't be bothered dealing with the dumb tourists and let us through.

For future reference, where does one get off the train for the Garmisch Classic?

Ingo

Starts at Kreuzeck cable car. No chair lift involved, but you walk from the top of Kreuzeck cable car station to Hochalm, from there it's another cable car to Osterfelderkopf (Alpspitzbahn). From there cable car back down. Did it once, it was nice.

swandav2000

Hi again,

Oh, I see now! I was confused because you mentioned the Zugspitze, and the Zugspitze is different from the Garmisch Classic area.

Just for future reference, the Garmisch Classic area includes the Hausberg, the Kreuzeck, and the Alspzpitze mountains. Yes, you can walk between the Kreuzeck and the Alpspitze, and it's a very popular walk taking about an hour or maybe an hour and a half. I didn't go via the Hochalmbahn though and just walked the whole way.

This might help you keep it straight:

http://zugspitze.de/en/summer/mountain/garmisch-classic

If you walked all the way to the Zugspitze, it would have been more than 3h -- do you think that's what you did? And if you came down from the Zugspitze by cable car, you would have ended at the Eibsee and needed to take the Eibsee bus or the Zugspitzebahn back to town, about 30 minutes.

You may have walked in the other direction, to the Hausberg (which for some reason isn't depicted on the map), which would have taken maybe an hour or two.

Were you hiking up or down?

Anyway, you can get off the train at Hausberg or at the Kreuzeck/Alpspitze stop to get to the Garmisch Classic mountains. The cable cars to the Kreuzeck and the Alpspitze cable cars are just across a parking lot. If you buy a round-trip ticket, you can use it going up or down either the Kreuzeck or the Alpspitze cable cars.

Here's a link to the prices:

http://zugspitze.de/en/summer/preise/garmisch-classic

s

Melnq8

swandav -

We didn't hike at all...we didn't get off the train at the right stop. My notes from that trip are on a shipment container somewhere, so I'm relying on my memory which isn't very reliable.

Thank you for the details swandav and Ingo, they'll be a big help for this year's attempt.

Melnq8

Flights booked, woo-hoo! Now for the planning bit.

Arrive Dec 2 in Dresden, depart Dec 24 from Munich

Melnq8

Swandav - any recommendations for where to stay in Garmisch? We're thinking 4-5 nights there.

Trophywife007

So, it's too late to suggest this since you've set your plan, but the Harz mountains is just a hop and skip (but no jump) from Dresden. It is a a magical place in the winter... three towns among many others work noting are: Quedlinburg, Wernigerode (former East Block) and Goslar, a UNESCO site.

swandav2000

Oh dear! Man, I really didn't get that at all! Well, you got a nice look at the Zugspitze for it. For this trip, just get off at the Hausberg or the Kreuzeck stops to see the Classic area.

Normally, you can find vacation apartments that will rent for 4 or 5 nights, though that might be difficult over Christmas. If you want to stay in a hotel, I would recommend two here, the Hotel Bavaria or the Hotel Zugspitze.

The Hotel Bavaria is a 3-star tucked in a side street (Partnachstrasse) just steps from the pedestrian path as well as just a few blocks from the train station. The Hotel Zugspitze is a 4-star that sits on Klammstrasse, right between the train station and the pedestrian path. Bath are decorated in pefect, not over-the-top Bavarian style, and both have gotten good reviews when I've recommended them before.

My computer is in the shop, so it's tricky for me to search around the gapa website for apartments. But you may want to try finding an apartment despite your only staying 4 or 5 nights -- might be worth a try. Do you already know the webssite

www.gapa.de

Anyway, I can help you search -- or take a critical look at the apartments -- when my computer is back in a couple of days.

funFUN!

s

Adelaidean

Don't miss lovely Meissen, charming old town, with an interesting porcelain history (seriously!) in the castle.

Annaberg is a pretty town, only been in the summer, but a delightful place. We visited a water hammer mill nearby (Frohnau, I think).

And the winter photos of Partnachklamm (Garmisch) look amazing.

Melnq8

Thank you Swandav, I'll look at those two hotels. Yes, I'm familiar with the gapa website, thanks to an earlier post from you.

Thank you trophywife and Adeladeean...so many choices, so little time!

Melnq8

Ingo -

I've just now had the opportunity to look at the apartments links for Dresden - lots of good options, thank you.

I've come upon this place, which looks promising, at the door step of the Forest Park in Blasewitz. Just wondering if you think this is a good location, considering we're traveling exclusively by public transport:

http://translate.google.com/translat...ml&prev=search (Villa Forest Park)

I also notice you mention splitting our week in Dresden between it and a town in the Ergebirge...any specific village? How far apart are Blasewitz and the Ergebirge? Too far to do multiple day trips?

As always, I very much appreciate your time.

Ingo

The link didn't work, but I found it - Villa Waldpark, right?

I have two concerns:
- Is this apartment maybe in the souterrain? The ceiling seems to be quite low for a villa - at least the main floor has high ceilings, and I did not see anything that made it look like it's upstairs under the roof.
- The street is quite busy, if the bedroom windows go to the street (Loschwitzer Str.) then it might be too noisy. Two trams runs right along this street (6, 12) and the car traffic is also thick in mornings and evenings.

The plus is that it's right on that tram lines, just 10-15 minutes to the old town and only two stops to Schillerplatz, the district centre with lots of shops/groceries/restaurants etc. It's only one change to main railway station, takes maybe 20 minutes. So, yes, it's a good location if traveling with public transportation.

Day trips from Dresden to the Erzgebirge mountains are doable, I do that every year many times. However, the real charm is when it gets dark, the day trippers are gone and the locals gather at the Christmas markets. Not sure if you can fully enjoy that considering you have a long train ride with changes ahead of you ...

Some places are a bit tricky to get to by public transportation from Dresden, like Seiffen e.g. Others are easier, with good train connections (Annaberg, Schwarzenberg e.g.)

Travel time to Annaberg is 1.50 h, hourly connections, last train back to Dresden at 9 pm. To Schwarzenberg it takes 3 hours - with a 30 min delay in Zwickau. Last reasonable connection back 7 pm, with 1 hour delay in Zwickau.

To Seiffen it takes 2 or 3 hours, depending on which route. Either through Freiberg or via Olbernhau, the former a *must* stop anyway - spend more time there. A good connection back at 4 pm through Freiberg (2 hours).

My suggestion is to spend two or three nights in either Annaberg-Buchholz or Schwarzenberg. The latter only between 2nd and 3rd Advent when their Christmas market takes place. You can easily do day trips to other places in the Erzgebirge from both towns - Schneeberg, castle Scharfenstein e.g. Or Seiffen and Grünhainichen where Kühn & Wendt is at home (both only from Annaberg).

If you'd rather do multiple day trips, it's also possible as I said. For example, I saw Schneeberg and Schwarzenberg on one day trip. And Olbernhau, Marienberg and Annaberg on another. You could also combine Annaberg and Freiberg. Or Seiffen and Freiberg.

Melnq8

Thank you so much Ingo, just the info I'm looking for. Breaking up the Dresden visit makes complete sense now.

I'd planned to dedicate seven nights Dresden, five nights Bamberg, four nights Garmisch and six nights Munich (which may possibly change to five nights, depending on what day friends from UK arrive, so possibly a spare day elsewhere).

Would a better usage of time perhaps be 3-4 nights Dresden, 3-4 nights Erzgebirge, or four in each with one night less in Bamberg?

I don't have a good feel for what's on offer yet, as its early days research-wise, but we never run out of things to do regardless of where we go.

Bamberg seems a good halfway point between Dresden and Garmisch and the smoked wheat bier has piqued my other half's interest.

Melnq8

Forgot to mention, not sure if the apartment is in the
souterrain, but it could well be. Shall do more research.

(And thanks for teaching me a new word).

Melnq8

Lucky us, I just checked the dates and we'll be there during Second Advent, so Schwarzenberg looking good!

Melnq8

Ingo - is there train transport between Annaberg-Bucholz and Schwarzenberg or is it via bus? I'm getting some very long times on the DBB site (12 hours!)