Chip and Sign credit cards usage in europe
Oct 19th, 2016, 05:04 PM
#41
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We used our Andrews FCU Visa with Chip & Pin last June in France. It worked well with unattended pay points such as train/Paris Metro stations, fuel stations in Brittany ( some remote and closed). Where there was a person accepting the card it was chip and signature.. This card has worked similarly in other countries on other trips.
Oct 20th, 2016, 07:48 AM
#42
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The Andrews card, from its beginnings, has always been known to be what the industry calls signature preferred but pin capable specifically for the unpersonneled transactons as described. Barclays Bank USA offers such cards also as do some of the other federal credit unions in the USA offering cards. State Department FCU recently introduced a change in its policy. They will now issue pin preferred cards to those who have their cards and desire a pin preferred card. If having a pin preferred card is important to you, those are some of the places to turn. However....
As has been said in this thread, despite original misgivings about the decision of the US banks to go with signature preferred cards and the feeling there might be problems at unpersonneled kiosks, such problems for the most part have not materialized. Chip and signature cards absolutely work in the machines of tfl on the London Underground without problems. Chip and signature cards most assuredly work in kiosks maintained both by the SNCF at CDG airport for the RER and by RATP in the Paris Metro system. No problems. Chip and signature cards, for the most part, work on automatic toll booths throughout France today. If you feel better having a pin preferred card, there are places to turn, few and far between quite true. Either they are out of the way credit unions (UNFCU, First Tech fCU and now upon request SDFCU) or you can get a signature preferred card with pin capabilities (Andrews FCU, Barclaybank USA) but in the vast majority of cases, your card will be signature preferred, will have no provision for pins for purposes and will almost always work. That's what the facts are today. tomorrow? Who knows?
As has been said in this thread, despite original misgivings about the decision of the US banks to go with signature preferred cards and the feeling there might be problems at unpersonneled kiosks, such problems for the most part have not materialized. Chip and signature cards absolutely work in the machines of tfl on the London Underground without problems. Chip and signature cards most assuredly work in kiosks maintained both by the SNCF at CDG airport for the RER and by RATP in the Paris Metro system. No problems. Chip and signature cards, for the most part, work on automatic toll booths throughout France today. If you feel better having a pin preferred card, there are places to turn, few and far between quite true. Either they are out of the way credit unions (UNFCU, First Tech fCU and now upon request SDFCU) or you can get a signature preferred card with pin capabilities (Andrews FCU, Barclaybank USA) but in the vast majority of cases, your card will be signature preferred, will have no provision for pins for purposes and will almost always work. That's what the facts are today. tomorrow? Who knows?
Oct 20th, 2016, 09:02 AM
#43
Just another comment re US cc's in Europe . . . One of mt credit union visas is still magnetic strip only. I like to take this one as one of my two primary cc's because it has the lowest foreign transaction costs. (I usually take two primary cards and a backup on most trips - - - and 3 ATM cards but that is a different discussion)
My non-chip visa still works just about everywhere except in non-staffed petrol stations and some machines. It didn't work once in a restaurant but that was most likely operator error.
My non-chip visa still works just about everywhere except in non-staffed petrol stations and some machines. It didn't work once in a restaurant but that was most likely operator error.
Oct 20th, 2016, 11:29 AM
#44
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Janis
If you visit France, don't expect your swipe card to work on road toll booths. Very few are manned these days, and I don't recall seeing many with abilities to take cash (however, I didn't look for them). Also, if you shop in a grocery store, don't expect your swipe card to be accepted. A few years ago before we had a chip card, we had to "cough up" hundreds of dollars in cash to pay for groceries because they didn't have a "reader" for our swipe cards.
Stu Dudley
If you visit France, don't expect your swipe card to work on road toll booths. Very few are manned these days, and I don't recall seeing many with abilities to take cash (however, I didn't look for them). Also, if you shop in a grocery store, don't expect your swipe card to be accepted. A few years ago before we had a chip card, we had to "cough up" hundreds of dollars in cash to pay for groceries because they didn't have a "reader" for our swipe cards.
Stu Dudley
Oct 20th, 2016, 12:37 PM
#45
>>If you visit France, don't expect your swipe card to work on road toll booths. <<
That's a given. Like I said it doesn't work in some machines and I would definitely use a different card for tolls.
I almost always use cash (or a debit card) for groceries . . . anywhere, even at home.
I was just explaining that people seem to freak out about not having chip & PIN cards but as of now it is no big deal -- now, of course that could all change in the future.
That's a given. Like I said it doesn't work in some machines and I would definitely use a different card for tolls.
I almost always use cash (or a debit card) for groceries . . . anywhere, even at home.
I was just explaining that people seem to freak out about not having chip & PIN cards but as of now it is no big deal -- now, of course that could all change in the future.
Oct 20th, 2016, 12:52 PM
#46
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I would not want a non-chip card when traveling in Europe anymore. It's surprising that some credit unions and banks haven't yet switched. My credit union switched to a chip and PIN earlier this year.
Oct 20th, 2016, 01:10 PM
#48
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<i>The Andrews card, from its beginnings, has always been known to be what the industry calls signature preferred but pin capable </i>
That's a wonderful description but it does not explain why Andrews, PenFed and other cards are accepted in France or in Europe when others are not. Andrews is a chip & signature card with off-line PINs. In spite of any propaganda from Visa or MC about how on line PIN cards are accepted everywhere, everywhere does not include locations outside of the USA.
The model is and has been for a long, long time chip & PIN and that does not mean on line PIN. Fuel resellers and toll booth operators not going to run on line authentication capability to their points of sale just so tourists from the US can use their on-line chip & signature cards.
If you want universal acceptance of your credit card, get a chip & PIN card (which is not easy) or second best, a chip & signature card with an off-line PIN.
That's a wonderful description but it does not explain why Andrews, PenFed and other cards are accepted in France or in Europe when others are not. Andrews is a chip & signature card with off-line PINs. In spite of any propaganda from Visa or MC about how on line PIN cards are accepted everywhere, everywhere does not include locations outside of the USA.
The model is and has been for a long, long time chip & PIN and that does not mean on line PIN. Fuel resellers and toll booth operators not going to run on line authentication capability to their points of sale just so tourists from the US can use their on-line chip & signature cards.
If you want universal acceptance of your credit card, get a chip & PIN card (which is not easy) or second best, a chip & signature card with an off-line PIN.
Oct 20th, 2016, 01:23 PM
#50
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I have had a true chip and pin card from the World Bank credit union for many years now. It works like a charm for everything I need. I also have no transaction fees, at all. My Banque Postale French debit card is obviously chip and pin and works everywhere, too. I have an old VISA debit card that is pin and signature that I hardly ever haul out, but when I do, it's a pain and mostly doesn't work.
Anyone who wants the greatest freedom to purchase anything in Europe, from groceries to toll fees to metro tickets, should join a credit union and get a true chip and pin card. Added advantage is usually NO transaction fees, or at minimum 1%.
Anyone who wants the greatest freedom to purchase anything in Europe, from groceries to toll fees to metro tickets, should join a credit union and get a true chip and pin card. Added advantage is usually NO transaction fees, or at minimum 1%.
Oct 20th, 2016, 01:28 PM
#51
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>>The model is and has been for a long, long time chip & PIN and that does not mean on line PIN. Fuel resellers and toll booth operators not going to run on line authentication capability to their points of sale just so tourists from the US can use their on-line chip & signature cards.<<
I'm not 100% clear what your last sentence means. But as I stated earlier, I have used my CapOne chip & signature card (no PIN of any kind) on around 30 different toll booths all over France (2 months each year) in the past 3 years with no problems at all. Before I had any chip card, my swipe card didn't work sometimes and it was un-predictable where it would not work - so I eventually only went to the "cash" booth.
Stu Dudley
I'm not 100% clear what your last sentence means. But as I stated earlier, I have used my CapOne chip & signature card (no PIN of any kind) on around 30 different toll booths all over France (2 months each year) in the past 3 years with no problems at all. Before I had any chip card, my swipe card didn't work sometimes and it was un-predictable where it would not work - so I eventually only went to the "cash" booth.
Stu Dudley
Oct 20th, 2016, 06:34 PM
#52
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Without rancor to anybody, here is what I do know.
1. Anrews (and PenFed and before issuing pin preferred cards, State Dpartment FCU were absolutely signature preferred at pos terminals with human beings. I've used all of them and was always asked for a signature. They did have capabilities during the transition period of being used in some kiosks where swipe cards would not work. As I said, the industry refers to these cards as signature preferred with pin capabilities. For a while, there were questions of how this whole thing would shake out and there was worry chip and signature cards by and large would not work in non pos situation.
2. That has simply proven not to be true in most cases. Most of the kiosks in France have been converted to accept chip and signature cards without pins. Am I saying there are absolutely no places where a card lacking a pin will not work. Not at all but such places, at least in my experience, have become few and far between. Also several blogs I participate on should give an indication where chipped cards lacking pin, online or offline, don't work. Such reports are few and far between.
3. There's no sense arguing or getting all out of sorts on this. The US banks, for better or for worse, have made their decision and are very insistent that having pin preferred cards while a deterent to fraud with lost or stolen card, simply in the scheme of things does not present a significant problem and not worth the cost of implementing such a system.
4. If you're in the United States, you can easily tell your card's primary cvm. Go into Walmart or Target and make a purchase. If you card is pin preferred, you will be asked for your pin. If signature preferred, you will either be asked for a signature or for small purchases, no cvm is required throughout the USA.
5. Finally, it's not worth worrying about. In the USA, as in most places, as consumers we enjoy zero liability for fraud. Having one's credit card account hacked is not identity theft. You are usually informed by your bank there are suspicious charges. They have become good at detecting suspicious charges. If indeed your account has been compromised, the fraudulent transactions are removed from the account, a new card issued with a new number and you're back in business within a couple of days. Yes it's a bit of a pain to change automatic billing information, granted. And it can be a pain if your account is compromised while on holiday Solutio? Bring 2 or 3 cards.
1. Anrews (and PenFed and before issuing pin preferred cards, State Dpartment FCU were absolutely signature preferred at pos terminals with human beings. I've used all of them and was always asked for a signature. They did have capabilities during the transition period of being used in some kiosks where swipe cards would not work. As I said, the industry refers to these cards as signature preferred with pin capabilities. For a while, there were questions of how this whole thing would shake out and there was worry chip and signature cards by and large would not work in non pos situation.
2. That has simply proven not to be true in most cases. Most of the kiosks in France have been converted to accept chip and signature cards without pins. Am I saying there are absolutely no places where a card lacking a pin will not work. Not at all but such places, at least in my experience, have become few and far between. Also several blogs I participate on should give an indication where chipped cards lacking pin, online or offline, don't work. Such reports are few and far between.
3. There's no sense arguing or getting all out of sorts on this. The US banks, for better or for worse, have made their decision and are very insistent that having pin preferred cards while a deterent to fraud with lost or stolen card, simply in the scheme of things does not present a significant problem and not worth the cost of implementing such a system.
4. If you're in the United States, you can easily tell your card's primary cvm. Go into Walmart or Target and make a purchase. If you card is pin preferred, you will be asked for your pin. If signature preferred, you will either be asked for a signature or for small purchases, no cvm is required throughout the USA.
5. Finally, it's not worth worrying about. In the USA, as in most places, as consumers we enjoy zero liability for fraud. Having one's credit card account hacked is not identity theft. You are usually informed by your bank there are suspicious charges. They have become good at detecting suspicious charges. If indeed your account has been compromised, the fraudulent transactions are removed from the account, a new card issued with a new number and you're back in business within a couple of days. Yes it's a bit of a pain to change automatic billing information, granted. And it can be a pain if your account is compromised while on holiday Solutio? Bring 2 or 3 cards.
Oct 20th, 2016, 06:51 PM
#53
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St. Cirq...I followed up on your suggested bank. This is what their promotional material says regarding their cards...
The majority of transactions require you to dip the card and sign the receipt. There is a possibility that you may be required to use your Personal Identification Number (PIN) at some un-manned chip-enabled terminals overseas, such as toll booths, train stations, and gas stations. Therefore, it is important that you remember your PIN to complete your purchases at these merchants.
That is exactly the same as Andrews, PenFed. They are signature preferred cards with pin capabilities. Not to denigrate the infomation or you, the point here is not whether those cards work or not and whether they work with pins or no cvm at kiosks. I will stick by my guns. The vast overwhelming majority of time, US chip and signature cars will work in France and elsewhere in the world; almost always requesting a signature at a pos transaction and perhaps asking for pins at some kiosks. Whether it is worthwhile to hunt around for cards like that, is up to you. But almost all credit cards being issued in the USA, at least today, require signatures and will work in kiosks with or without pins.
The majority of transactions require you to dip the card and sign the receipt. There is a possibility that you may be required to use your Personal Identification Number (PIN) at some un-manned chip-enabled terminals overseas, such as toll booths, train stations, and gas stations. Therefore, it is important that you remember your PIN to complete your purchases at these merchants.
That is exactly the same as Andrews, PenFed. They are signature preferred cards with pin capabilities. Not to denigrate the infomation or you, the point here is not whether those cards work or not and whether they work with pins or no cvm at kiosks. I will stick by my guns. The vast overwhelming majority of time, US chip and signature cars will work in France and elsewhere in the world; almost always requesting a signature at a pos transaction and perhaps asking for pins at some kiosks. Whether it is worthwhile to hunt around for cards like that, is up to you. But almost all credit cards being issued in the USA, at least today, require signatures and will work in kiosks with or without pins.
Oct 21st, 2016, 09:53 AM
#54
I am consistently amazed that so many people think that the chip is involved in automatic toll booth usage. The fact that the card slides in and then slides out immediately makes it very clear that only the magnetic strip is used for the transaction no matter where the card is from. Acceptance is based on what each person's bank has authorized and has nothing to do with the technology.
Oct 21st, 2016, 11:59 AM
#55
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<i> The fact that the card slides in and then slides out immediately makes it very clear that only the magnetic strip is used for the transaction no matter where the card is from.</i>
I doubt it since the chip slot does not read the entire magnetic strip, which is why the magnetic strip does not work.
I doubt it since the chip slot does not read the entire magnetic strip, which is why the magnetic strip does not work.
Oct 21st, 2016, 12:20 PM
#56
Interesting since last summer I was driving with some American friends with chipless cards. They wanted to pay the tolls and some (but not all) of their (Visa/MasterCard) cards worked just fine in the machines. Maybe they weren't charged at all! 
Oct 21st, 2016, 01:00 PM
#57
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xyz123, The World Bank credit union has, within the last 3 months, changed its cards to true chip and pin, at least upon request. I received my new card from them about 2 months ago. Perhaps their promotional materials don't reflect the new changes - wouldn't surprise me, as their website is always a moving target and not always reliable.
At any rate, as I live in France and have my main account with the Banque Postale, I hardly ever even use the World Bank credit union card, so I am absolutely not an authority on where it stands right now.
At any rate, as I live in France and have my main account with the Banque Postale, I hardly ever even use the World Bank credit union card, so I am absolutely not an authority on where it stands right now.
Jul 1st, 2017, 01:26 AM
#58
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Still traveling in Europe. My chip and signature card was accepted everywhere Visa cards were accepted in Denmark and Germany. Some hotels and restaurants did not accept Visa and Mastercard credit cards--cash was the way to pay. I specifically went to my credit union to get a pin number before leaving the States. It was rejected in all unattended payment stations such as gas stations. There may have been one exception getting a travel card in the Copenhagen airport. But using my debit card at gas stations worked as an alternative.
Jul 1st, 2017, 06:17 AM
#60
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Just returned from almost a month in France with a chip and signature card. It worked fine at toll booths and at some gas stations but not others. Atria was the most reliable; we used it without problems in many stations. Other gas stations did not accept it.
