logos999, where do you suggest folks keep their wealth at the moment?

Oceanfront property in Bavaria.

Anywhere, except in USD and currencies that are linked to the $. The usual precautions apply!!!! €, Aussie$ even Yen. Gold has risen by 50% just recently, I'm sure it'll rise further.
Whatever, everything's extremely scary right now.

Oceanfront only after the "climate change". ;-)

balletgirl wrote: "The USA pours more money into humanitarian efforts worldwide than all European countries combined."

I don't believe that. It's one of the great American myths that the US is a world leader in aid; in relation to capacity (population size and income per capita) it is not; in brute terms, the EU gives more.

>
Yes, not only other motives, but also a real motivation to help. Actually, you might not yet have understood, but I'm desperately PRO USA. You need to hammer common sense into some people (here). "They" won't understand that it's 5 min to midnight to come to their senses. "They"'ve had everything and may lose everything.

Now don't say I'm anti... , I'm not.<

I hear ya, brother.

I'm talking about currency amount not per capita/population.

I guess as with any facts...you can spin it however you like.

Still, my point is, if you don't want our money, tell your government to politely decline our aid. That will mean more money for our government, less taxes on us, more money for us to spend.

I suppose...the USA could always go back to pre-WWII isolationism. I know some Americans are for that.

"...my point is, if you don't want our money..."
I want, please!!!

>>>>>
Yes, not only other motives, but also a real motivation to help. Actually, you might not yet have understood, but I'm desperately PRO USA. You need to hammer common sense into some people (here).
>>>>>

this becomes more pathetic the more you explain it. as an american expat, you think you are in a position to lecture your fellow americans on how to get on the right track. you think you are the only one who understands these things and you feel a responsibility to evangelise like a born again. so you exaggerate and view everything through the same lens.

you are a caricature of a born again expat gone native...all countries have them...they are from different countries and they go to different countries but they are all annoying and must not be taken seriously when they get on their lecturing pulpits.

you love 'ignorant' americans because they help to build up your self created persona of an enlightened person who escaped from evil. now you seek to bring others into salvation from your pulpit.

balletgirl, how much aid did the US give Ireland and Germany last year?

You have to have the facts before you can spin them.

balletgirl wrote: "I'm talking about currency amount not per capita/population."

And I refuted that in saying that in brute terms, the EU gives more. I didn't add it all up: I saw at a glance that the UK, France, and Germany together give more aid than the US -- there was no need to look up the figures for the other members. Ball park estimate: the EU gives double what the US gives.

balletgirl also wrote: "Still, my point is, if you don't want our money, tell your government to politely decline our aid. That will mean more money for our government, less taxes on us, more money for us to spend."

I'm sure that you didn't mean to sound as ungracious as that came across as being.

Padraig...
You are right...the problem with the written word is that tone of voice is not available.

I guess after all...it is like being in one big family. People disagree when it comes to money - whether the value is up or down, people don't like money problems.

I love my fellow European neighbors and have a strong connection to them. Not only does my family tree go back to England and France but I also lived in Germany when I was younger and have nothing but wonderful memories. I plan to travel lots to Europe both West and Eastern because I love the people, the lifestyle, the food, the culture, etc.

Plus, I sometimes get caught up in history. For example...France helped us gain independence, we helped them get rid of the Nazis. Let's call in even. Now, if you would like our help, we are happy to give it. If you don't, let us know so we don't over step our boundaries.

I think one should start to tell the average ignorant middle class American family that it's time to shift more funds into NZ$ bonds, Argentine silver mines stock options, and wheat futures. Well, only after paying the mortgage, health care, pension fund, college savings plan, installments for the car, and the weekly grocery shopping, of course.

Come on, I don't know how filthy rich the average person here is, but I think that only few people can actually apply adequate contermeasures in times of a decline of their local currency.

balletgirl, I welcome the outbreak of camaraderie.

>as an american expat,
I'm NOT american and I've NEVER been one, I'm a native German, and I DO care.

I'm making a very low 5 digit number of € per month and I'm not considering myself to be rich. I've got some money left over, not much, but enough to invest into something. Does this make me one of those fascists and imperialists all the german commies hate? I don't think so.

Back at ya Padraig!

"Anywhere, except in USD and currencies that are linked to the $. The usual precautions apply!!!! €, Aussie$ even Yen. Gold has risen by 50% just recently, I'm sure it'll rise further.
Whatever, everything's extremely scary right now."

This is where I lose you. All of those options come with their own set of risks. Gold is near record highs, how could you be "sure it'll rise further"?

All of this subprime mortgage crisis stuff is serious, but ultimately overblown. The stories all talk about the steep increases in default rates for mortgages--but the starting point was extremely low. Ultimately there are real assets backing up these securities; the problem for the moment is that nobody knows their "real" value. Securitization means the current holders of the debt are far removed from having any real knowledge of the property securing their debt. The one thing that's very clear is that the rating agency ratings of the debt are now pretty much meaningless.

But, at some point, that will shake out. If Countrywide and Bear Stearns go down in the process, it won't be the end of the world.

Padraig says:

"...in brute terms, the EU gives more. I didn't add it all up: I saw at a glance that the UK, France, and Germany together give more aid than the US -- there was no need to look up the figures for the other members. Ball park estimate: the EU gives double what the US gives."

You talking about government aid alone?