Patrick

LoveItaly: It is spelled out very clearly in their policies listed on the Bank of America Website under "check cards" (their name for ATM/debit cards.

"Zero Liability - if your card is lost or stolen, Bank of America reimburses you for any unauthorized card transactions up to the amount of the loss, when reported within 60 days from statement date.
Guaranteed credit - your account will be credited by the end of the next business day for unauthorized transactions if your card is lost or stolen."

Clear enough?

kswl

My bank does not have that policy regarding check cards. They reimburse in case of negligence on the bank's part (not checking the signature, i.d., etc). They do not reimburse for merchant negligence or fraud. You must file a police report and recover the funds from each retailer/service provider. But it is a small, hometown bank.

LoveItaly

Hi Patrick, yes now that you say it is in their written agreement it is very clear. Your other post said the Branch Manager told you so that is why I posted my comment.

I think I have upset you. If that is the case be assured that was not my intention.

Having been in the insurance business I know horror stories about clients that were told "you are covered" etc. and then a claim occurred and the insurance person had not followed through properly with the proper paper work and chaos would reign, usually with a lawsuit. Have known insurance company underwriters that have agreed to write a policy and on receipt of the application the higher ups refused even though the underwriter supposdly could make underwriting decisions really couldn't when headquarters disagreed.

Other incidents I have seen is regarding real estate transactions. Verbal agreements that can go out the window because there was nothing in writing to make it legal.

Take care, and hope you are having decent weather.

nbbrown

Hmmmmm... maybe we need to check into Bank of America. We were going to open a specific account to use as a "traveler's fund". If Bank of America promises their debit fees are refunded if the card is stolen, that is great. We were just worried since it is so easy over here to use your debit card without having to show your ID. (Although it has never been stolen, thank God!), so maybe that makes a difference. We will definately check thoroughly with the bank before committing. We checked today with a certain branch of a larger bank, but she could hardly speak English, and we weren't sure she was sure what we were asking! Thanks for the info and advice, though!

Budman

WOW! Banks vary. I just called my bank to reconfirm how they handle lost VISA check cards overseas. I was told once reported, they would put a hold on my account. But, how about the funds that were taken out of my checking account because someone stole and used the VISA portion of my card before I noticed it was missing and reported it lost?

I was told that I had to fill out a Regulation E Form, and it could take up to 30 business days to recover those funds.

I've had similar problems in the States where a merchant double charged my VISA check card. I had to deal directly with the merchant, and took sometimes up to a week or more to get the funds put back in my checking account.

I have disabled the VISA portion of the card permanently so I don't have to go thru this BS anymore. It's easier for me to use the ATM and pay cash, or just use my Mastercard. If I lost my Mastercard, I would not be out any "cash flow." If I lost my ATM card, someone would need to PIN to withdraw funds.

Statia

Budman, I tried to disable the VISA debit function of my check card so that it could only be used at ATM's for withdrawals and I was told that couldn't be done. I guess it might vary instituion to institution but I will have to try it again before my next trip. Thanks for the tip.

LVSue

I couldn't disable the debit portion either. I had to order a special plain ATM card (does not look like a Visa card). On the other hand, there have been a couple of ATMs that have not wanted to take it.

Castleton

Maybe the bank clerk doesn't know how to disable the debit portion of the card. All they need to do is go into the computer and set the amount to 0.

Budman

When I tried to disable the VISA portion, I was told I couldn't and would have to get a new card without the VISA logo on it. I then talked with someone else at the bank and was told it could be done, and they did it.

To make sure it was done, I tried to use it as a VISA card and it was rejected.

If your ATM card was rejected, the bank you tried to use it was probably on a different network. My ATM is on the Plus & Interlink Newtorks, and my M/C is on the Cirrus Network. Most ATM's that I use accept both networks.

Patrick

LoveItaly, why on earth do you think you've upset me? I tried re-reading my post and guess maybe when I said "clear?" at the end, you took that as being a bit obtuse? Gee, I sure didn't mean it to be, but I guess it could be interpreted as an "I told you so" type remark, for which I apologize.

Actually I had never checked it out before, but your comments made me want to do so, and was happy to find support in what my bank manager had told me, especially since (as you suggested) he is no longer there! Incidentally, he told me that policy a couple years ago when we changed our ATM/debit cards to ATM only cards because of our security concerns. He insisted it was a waste of our time, but we did it anyway. As you probably know I have posted about having a few problems now with an ATM only card (no Visa insignia) not working in some ATM's particularly in Italy, so we have switched our cards back to the ATM/debit (or check card as they call them).

Also as I mentioned I recently found out that a similar policy DID take place when a credit card number was "stolen" and had fraudulent charges. By the time I got my statement it was already totally credited off. That applied to Citibank. My ATM is Bank of America.

Oh, and decent weather? After a very hot and humid week last week, and a full day of rain yesterday, this morning is absolutely beautiful -- a little cooler (currently 71) and gorgeous blue skies and sunshine. The beach couldn't have been more lovely this morning! Naples, Florida at its finest!

ira

Hi all,

Using ATM/debit cards might be a problem when renting cars.

My autoeurope contract for a car in France says
"The supplier may require a security deposit.....This is accomplished with a credit card authorization held for the duration of the rental"

You might find that a large portion of the funds in your bank account are frozen.

In addition, the contract states, "Debit cards are not accepted locally if CDW and Theft are declined".

LoveItaly

Hello Patrick, thank you for your post! There is nothing to apologize for but I sure appreciate knowing that I had not irritated you. That upset me to think that I had. I respect and admire you so much. Even with the problems you are facing you are always such a joy.

Patrick, I have to do "something" about my ATM card before I go to Italy again. I probably will not go until 2006 rather then this year as I had planned.

I have just an ATM card (no debit portion to it) with my checking account. It does not have consequently a VISA or MasterCard symbol. It does show it is part of the Cirrus and STAR companies. If I get an ATM/Debit card through them it will have the MasterCard symbol. They do not have an ATM/Debit card with the Visa symbol.

I have a brokerage ATM/Debit card. Previously this card had the VISA symbol. About a year ago they changed to Master Card.

Then a few months ago all clients received a replacement ATM/Debit card, again with the Master Card symbol along with a warning notice that due to a high level of fraud in Italy clients could NOT use the debit portion of the card in Italy. The ATM portion (to acquire cash) could be used.

So I am thinking at some point I should open up another checking account. The USBank that has an office in our city seems like a good bank. My thought was to just use that checking account for ATM usage when I travel as I can get a Visa ATM/Debit card through them.

When you have time would you be kind enough to advise me if this would be good to do. It seems to me it would since you say an ATM card did not always work and if I correct did you not say in the past that not all ATM's in Italy will accept an ATM/Debit card with the MasterCard symbol?

Also, when I am in Italy my daughter will need to pay my bills from my current checking account so I even thought the second checking account through USBank for my ATM withdrawals would simplify things.

I am glad your weather is beautiful today. I saw on another post that you did have a beautiful walk on the beach. That most have been a wonderful way to start the day. I haven't been to Naples in ages but I have such fond memories of your area.

Take good care, and thank you for always having such good and informative advice for everyone. Best regards.

Patrick

LoveItaly, I wish I could give you the definitive answer. This idea of at ATM only card NOT working in Italy (and maybe other countries) at ATMs in a new problem. I was so shocked when my BofA ATM only card wouldn't work at a Deutsche Bank in Rome since they are a partner of BofA. That's where I went in and an officer immediately told me the problem. He said the machines had only very recently been changed and that all ATM foreign transactions are now being handled by VISA so a non-Visa linked card will not work in their machines any longer. We ran into this at a couple of other banks in Italy as well, some of them were banks where our same cards had worked successfully just the summer before. In Belgium we were told that is true of ALL ATM's. We tried dozens of them there and our cards wouldn't work at any of them. Incidentally our cards have never failed us in France, the Netherlands, or the UK, even last year -- so how much this trend will spread remains to be seen.

Someone else mentioned that even if you card has a Master Card symbol, that it will be honored by Visa machines -- that is an agreement between them. I sure can't answer that, however. All I know is I'm now glad I've switched back from an ATM only card to an ATM/debit card that does have a Visa link on it.

My morning routine is normally a 3 mile loop walk, about a fourth of that is on the beach -- some 10 blocks. Got rained out yesterday, but otherwise I hadn't missed in a week.

LAwoman

We use ours at ATMs in Europe, and for Metro & tube tickets at kiosks, but wouldn't use to charge purchases. If someone steals your number, it's your money they're taking, whereas with a credit card, it's the bank's money.

Our ATM card/check card is with Wells Fargo. A few months ago, my husband dropped his and by the time it he realized it was gone - 4 hours - the person who picked it up had spent around $400. This money was taken right out of our checking account. We called the bank 4 hrs after it was lost and they froze the acct. And it took about a week for them to replace the money - it was not immediate.

Wouldn't want to go through that while on vacation, when it's just as easy to use a credit card.

LoveItaly

Thank you Patrick. When I get back from my trip to Atlanta I will open up that second checking account that will give me an ATM/Debit card with the Visa symbol.

It is amazing how quickly things change, hard to keep up with everything.

You are fortunate you have the beach to walk on. That is one thing I miss here in the Sacramento Valley. No shoreline! So it is not as fun taking a walk.

Have a good day, and thanks again for all your help, it is appreciated.

dsm22

HMMMMM...I am rethinking my whole Visa check card thing. I honestly use it everyday. I never use it as a debit card, I do not even know the pin number. If I were to use it as a debit card it is a dollar fifty every transaction. I do not have 50 dollars to spend a month to use it as a debit card.

I need to re-read some things and decide whether I should take it with me on vacation. It just might be easier to pay the bill when I get home.

Thanks for starting this post, ktyson, I think it is making a bunch of us do our homework.

LVSue

Incredible! Are you telling me that NO ATMs in Europe take a M/C ATM card? This after I just opened a new checking acct as Ira advised, and chose one whose parent company is Paribas (Banque Nationale de Paris). But... The ATM card is M/C.

I think I'll just stuff my sox with dollar bills and give up on the whole thing.

Budman

dsm22,

<I never use it as a debit card, I do not even know the pin number.>

If you don't know the PIN, you use it as a debit card. You use the VISA or M/C portion of the card. The funds come out of your checking account.

If you know the PIN and use it to get cash, you are using the card as an ATM card. The funds still come out of your checking account.

The whole process can be confusing.

Sue, I don't know if that is a true statement concerning the Mastercard ATM card. I have a Mastercard credit card and I can get funds from an ATM machine -- of course that will be a cash advance, but I can still get funds.

weski

A new issue on this useful post: I just received a notice from my bank and one of my Visa cards (& I suspect others that I didn't catch in the small print) that a 3 percent charge will be added to foreign exchange charges and withdrawals. For many years, credit cards and ATMs were the best way for lowest rate, etc.
Also, and I speak with experience, if you pay bills from your "normal" checking account, DO NOT lose that card; you will be unable to access that account as you get new card and pin, etc. For travel, I would recommend an ATM card that is NOT connected to your everyday banking.

Travelnut

Are you sure your card is &quot;ATM <b>only</b>&quot;? these are getting to be quite rare as the default option. If it has MC/VISA on it, it is most like a debit card, which is more than an ATM card. I used mine last October in Holland and France.