Changes in the food in London

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Jul 12th, 2002, 12:59 PM

monica

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Changes in the food in London

I have just returned from an excellent vacation in London!! After every trip to London, I think about the places I visited, the people I met, the countless pints I drank and the vast quantities of food I consumed. It is the food that I keep thinking of and I am wondering what happened to the traditional pub food? I studied abroad in London 10 year ago when only English food could be found on a pub menu. Now it seems that you will find a couple of traditional items and then a lot of American and other food. What happened to Sheperd's pie and Toad in the hole and my favorite..... apple crumble with custard sauce. My friends who are English and live there did not agree with the disappearance of tradional food until we tried looking for an apple crumble and they had to search the web. I don't think this is an extremely important point just a curious one especially to those who travelled to London years ago. And while I am at it, it is strange to see fish and chip shops with Kebobs . Anyway food for thought. Even without my apple crumble, London is incredible!!!!

Jul 12th, 2002, 10:22 PM

mpprh

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Hi Don't worry, traditional English food still lives in country pubs outside London ! Peter http://tlp.netfirms.com

Jul 12th, 2002, 11:40 PM

sylvia

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Have a look at the Traditional English Reataurants in London page at http://www.english-restaurants.com/english/ Pub menus have changed though. I was in a pub in Keswick and on their menu was a section called traditional old favourites. As well as bangers and mash (very good bangers they were too), steak and kidney pie etc. they had lasagne and chicken tikka.

Jul 13th, 2002, 12:08 AM

Ben Haines

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With the e-mail copy of this message I am copying you the note I keep on disc about pub meals that I like in London. There is much in what you say. Lunches in the pubs I use now each offer a handful of dishes from the Mediterranean, India, Thailand, Chicago, and even Mexico (if you can count British chilli con carne as Mexican !). But it not at all a total take-over, and there is plenty of shepherd?s pie around, with pudding for afters. Toad in the hole is hard to serve in pubs, as the batter goes off-peak about ten minutes after cooking, so you need a great turn-over to offer it safely. On apple crumble you have a point: I have not seen it around lately, and I do not know why not. If we had no fish and chips shops with kebabs (or spring rolls) we should have half as many such shops. People with Cypriot Turk and Hong Kong Chinese parents (all British now, of course) are ready to slog away the long and antisocial hours for a limited income: people with British parents on the whole are not. These people know how to make tasty extras that sell well, so they make them. Free entry for Commonwealth citizens, about 1960, brought us the Bengalis, Chinese, and Cypriots (Greek and Turk) who offered cheap labour and good food, and the Italians and mainland Greeks that had stayed with us after 1945 invited cousins over when the then Common Market made an open labour market: Spaniards came with Spanish entry to the European Community. And we buy these good things, in pubs or in chippies. The breakthrough was cheap holidays on the coast of Spain forty years ago (sun, sex, sand and sangria). The mass of the people found that there is good food that is not British. That once known, every small country town started a non-British restaurant open till midnight seven days a week. Our tastes widened, and we never looked back. Sainsbury?s biggest selling take-away food now is chicken massala. I had one for lunch yesterday, actually ? delicious. I shall narrow things down to me alone. My late mother taught me to cook, and I cook from memory with my eldest sister and Mrs Beeton as backing where needed. So I can and do make all the old British favourites -- though it?s high time I made toad in the hole again: thank you for the reminder. My rhubarb crumble is a model of its kind. This means that when I eat out I look for things that I do not cook myself, and these often take their origin outside these islands. I do see why you are interested. In Berlin (for much the reasons that apply in London) it is ever harder to eat German, especially in pubs. To eat German I go to Poland ! O, the roast duck and sauerkraut, the knuckle of pork and rotkohl. You expressed no regret, and there are indeed no grounds for regret. In both cities there is plenty of traditional food around, and the overseas foods are extras, not replacements. The political importance of our enjoyment of the new food is great. As you have seen, we in London are a world city, multicultural, multiracial, multireligious, and at times even multilingual. We make nothing but information, ideas, and design: we live on our wits. The wealth of ideas that we draw on for our high living depends upon our roots across the world. Canada must be in much the same position: can anyone please report from there upon this matter ? And if you want the old world, try any snazzy Indian restaurant on the King?s Road in Chelsea. It will be called The Raj, or the Viceroy, and will have on the walls prints of the Bombay of the Empress Victoria. I am glad you enjoy your visits. Sorry about the recent weather. Ben Haines

Jul 13th, 2002, 07:17 PM

xxx

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Top.

Jul 13th, 2002, 11:41 PM

Ben Haines

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The amiable Judy, of Ontario, has supplied the news I wanted from Canada, and has invited me to post it to Fodors if I so chose. I have to warn you that there is nothing here useful to travellers headed for Europe. Judy wrote it because I asked whether Toronto and Canada have any of the changes that we know in London and Berlin. If I may comment, I think the position she reports makes modern Ontario, like modern England, sound more attractive to tourists, not less. For breakfast we serve waffles with summer flower honey for breakfast,or you could try pancakes with maple syrup and sausage, French toast with fresh wild blueberry, or farmer's or truck driver s eggs any style with Canadian back bacon(the best) and home fried. If you care for something a bit different,many Dim Sum houses open at 8:30 in the morning, since it is standard Cantonese breakfast. This morning, I went to my local weekly farmer's market. Besides (real) fresh produce, there were stands selling honeycomb, Polish smoked meat, eels and sausages, English Cheddar cheese, Greek sweet pastries, French and Italian bread, Canadian pies and Vietnamese ready-eat food, etc... I was looking for fresh-picked sweet corn (one of the best thing when roasted within 12 hours after picking), but have to wait another two weeks because the dry weather. Since 70th and 80th, due to a national Humanitarian Policy, many refugees from Southeast Asia and Central and Eastern Europe have come to Canada, mainly centred around Toronto. Certainly, there are packets of areas, such as little Italy, the Greek area, Jewish area (most of them came after the Second World War), Polish village, Korean town, China towns (5 of them), and the Iranian area, but most communities are quite mixed. During the World Cup period, there were celebrations on streets almost every day since there was always some country that had won. In a typical supermarket, there is food from Asia, Europe, North and South America... The newest trend on any take-out (take away) counter is freshly-made sushi (even in the Italian area). I travel a lot in rural Ontario. Except a few Koreans in the greenhouse mushroom business, and some lately arrived Polish, most people are Dutch or German descendants (every September, there is a huge Oktoberfest in Waterloo/Kitchener --old name: New Berlin). In diners usually they serve steaks, lamb cutlets, smoked pork chops, Dutch lentil soup, schnitzels, sausage and pierogi. In towns near lakes (more than a thousand lakes here), I always have fried fresh perch with mashed potato. I have learned from my Dutch friends to like herring. But, no matter how small the town is, there are always a (westernized) Chinese restaurant, a pizza place and a Korean variety store. (continued?)

Jul 13th, 2002, 11:42 PM

Ben Haines

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(?continued) Most farmers still have their own hog or beef (sometimes deer or moose in fall), slaughtered, cured and kept in freezers, have vegetables and fruit from their own gardens and orchards and sell the overflow. In summer and fall, when driving in the country, it is a common roadside sight to see a lonely little stand with some produce, a money box and sign such as "corn: $2/per dozen, leave money in the box". It is totally different in Toronto. This used to be a traditional English town, before the 70s: there was hardly anything else besides typical English meals and some simple Italian food. It has changed drastically in the last two decades. With more than 50% of the population non-Anglo, it is said that you can find the best Chinese, Italian, Greek, Korean restaurants outside the original countries. We have the biggest Italian prosciutto factory in North America; more Kosher food stores than you could count; on any weekend evening, the restaurants in the Greek area are always packed; and my father has enjoyed Spanish paella very much whenever he comes to visit. Most working people go to food courts (almost one in every big building) for lunch. There are all kinds of cheap (2-3 pounds) fresh-made food imaginable. Most of the owners and serving staff are new immigrants, as it is the easiest business to get into and easiest job to find. That was how some of my friends with post-graduate degrees made their living on first arrival. Another main lunch option is hotdog or sausage. Sometimes there are more than a hundred customers lined up by the famous sausage stand outside City Hall around lunch hour. It is popular to have potluck in social Gatherings (everyone brings one dish). Most people are quite enthusiastic about trying different food. Many a time, I have had things I never tasted before. Last night, the daughter of my Jamaican friend came to learn how to make miso soup and sushi as these are her favorite, she also brought me some beans and rice. I am not quite sure whether it s right to post this on the European Forum. Would you post for me if you don't think there will be any objection or if it is of any interest ? My only complain about pub food in England is that they serve too big a portion to finish , and I do hate to waste good food.

Jul 15th, 2002, 09:48 AM

alice

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Oh yes what about Spotted Dick? Is it still around in the pubs?

Jul 16th, 2002, 07:34 AM

tania

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I've never been disappointed in any Chinese restaurant in Toronto, especially in the Dundas Road area where Dim Sum is de rigueur for this shopper. Better than my experiences in San Francisco any day. I haven't tried many places around the Pacific Mall in the area of North Toronto but the dried mushrooms I see there make me want to know what to do with them.

Jul 16th, 2002, 08:23 AM

#10

bobob

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Alice, Alice, Alice, I suggest you walk into any pub and just yell out "I am looking for spotted dick". I am sure you will be served all you can handle very quickly.

Jul 16th, 2002, 08:40 AM

#11

Gareth Evans

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While not a pub, you can get apple crumble in the 'Stock Pot' dinners just off the Haymarket and Cambridge Circus yummm! Very cheap as well

Jul 16th, 2002, 10:23 AM

#12

wqa

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Bobob, you one sick puppy bubba. Alice did not mean that kind of spotted dick!

Jul 17th, 2002, 11:18 AM

#13

Claudia

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There is an article in today's New York Times about this very subject (sorry to you have to register to get to it). I didn't want to copy and paste the whole article. http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/17/di...LOND.html?8idg