My family of 5 are going to Germany in June. We will be renting a car and driving thru the various regions. We're now considering taking my Mom. She not getting any yonger (although a pretty young 68 year old), never been anywhere in her life (not sure she's even been on a plane!) and she is German. I know inviting her on this trip would be a dream come true for her. Flights and hotels could all be worked out, but I am wondering about a car for 6. Most standard and full sized cars seat 5 (which works for our family), but I don't know what to rent for 6. We're not really excited about a van (my husband and 18 year old son wants to drive a cool and fast car on the autobahn), and of course we realize its easier getting in and out of places in a smaller car. I'm not seeing too many SUV's on autoeurope.com either.

Anyone have any suggestions about the car situation?

I am in the same situation for Europe. Unfortunately, the only vehicle to accomodate that many people is a van, which is what I rented through AutoEurope. Good Luck and lots of fun! Kathy

A van is about your only choice. I rented a BMW station wagon and it only sat four comfortably assuming you need the back for luggage. When I returned it and asked if there was anything larger, they showed me an enormous Mercedes van that was the size of a small bus! I stuck with the BMW.

Hopefully there are smaller vans to be had, but I think it will have to be a van.

Hmmm....Grandma might not get invited after all.

Can't you just ditch the youngest kid with some relatives or friends and take Mom? The kid has every chance to get back, but Gramma may not...and she's originally German. Like you said, for her it's a dream come true, right?

I'm only being half facetious here. Just re-read your post and you say "family of five"; I assume 3 are kids, but may be wrong.

If 3 ARE youngsters, and not all teens, for example, and if you're not planning more than a couple of hours in the car at a time, why not rent a big sedan and take everyone? Good luck, and let lus know what happens.

It will be me and my husband, my 18 year old son, 16 year old daughter, 11 year old son, and now possibly Grandma (still gotta talk that over with the hubby). I appreciate the idea of leaving little Johnny behind, but couldn't possibly dream of leaving the little guy at home on a "family" vacation, especially since he's adopted. He would be CRUSHED!

But you do have a good suggestion of just cramming in the sedan. Afterall, we haven't really planned for more than 2-3 hours between destinations. Stops along the way should help break it up too. And if the sedan doesn't have front bucket seats, my skinny little guy can sit up front I suppose (not sure about airbags). But it's certainly something to think about. Thanks!

loves2sing,

as far as I am aware, there is <b>no</b> sedan available at German rental companies that will seat 6. And I am a car afficionado, so I should think I would know if there were such a thing. I don't think there even is a sedan on the market which would seat 6.

German and other models are in general smaller and sportier cars than some of their US counterparts. None of the German or other sedans would seat more than just the driver and the co-pilot in the front seats.

That would leave 6 people for the back. <b>Forget about it</b>!

Besides that it is even <b>illegal</b> to seat more passengers in car than the car is licensed for (the maximum number is 5 for most cars).

You are most likely to not only get a ticket from police, but even will not be allowed to keep on driving.
It is also illegal to transport passengers sitting in the trunk of a station wagon, should this idea occur to you.

The idea of six people cramming in a sedan and driving fast on the Autobahn (which you better do) gives me the creeps!!! That's endagering other drivers.

I am sorry if this sounds unintentionally harsh. I think you should indeed try to get a van. And the bad news is, even a normal van by European standards (such as a VW Sharan, Ford Galaxy) will most likely not be sufficient if you carry some luggage and therefore need trunk space.

You would indeed have to look for a Mercedes V-Class, VW T5 or similar, both of which have a bus-like appearance.

Alternatively do consider renting two smaller cars. Might be the more comfortable option anyway - and if you do not intend to have longer driving segments than 3 hours a day, you might be able to cope with the separation from your companions.

leaving aside the issue of Grandma -- you really aren't going to find a sedan that the five of you will be comfortable in and also has space in the trunk for all the luggage. Even if you pack light you will have 5 small suitcases and 4 or 5 daybags/camera cases/tores.

So since you'll need a larger vehicle anyway - get the van and invite grandma

I agree with janisj.

And apologize for my faulty math:

With six people travelling and two in the front seats, that would of course leave <i>4</i> in the back.
This would, however, still be impractical and illegal.

Thanks for you input, although I wasn't suggesting by any means that I would do anything illegal. It's been so long since I've been in a bigger car (since I drive a convertible myself) I just wasn't sure what a larger sedan even sat anymore, and no one in my family is very large so I thought just maybe they might still have cars with a bench seat in the front, guess not, ha. By no means would I cram people in on each others laps! Perhaps I shouldn't have been so flip in using the word cram, it was probably misleading.
I'm not concerned about the luggage as 4 of the 5 will be limited to backpacks, my mom and I would probably have smaller suitcases. I have been to Europe before and I know the importance of packing light! I plan to personally verify that all the luggage will fit into the trunk of my convertible, just to get a feel for how much room we need, ha.
Two cars is not an option for us for a variety of reasons. So, I might just have to go for the van afterall, as suggested.
Thanks for all the insite about cars!

If you really pack that light, you shouldn't have a problem with the vans I mentioned (VW Sharan, Ford Galaxy). In fact, there is an even smaller one on the market that might be sufficient: The Opel Zafira should seat 6 people, probably seven, although the two seats furthest in the back are not too comfortable. But it might do anyway. Look for that option. Opel is a GM company, so Avis is likely to rent them. Also look into Europcar and Sixt if you don't go through one of the consolidators.

Neither of the three vehicles suggested here would be too &quot;bussy&quot; and might in fact provide some fun on the Autobahn.

And, of course, I did not mean that you intentionally wanted to do something illegal. I just felt that I should point out the fact that the scenario suggested might not be in compliance with German Law (which, of course, you wouldn't be aware of).

Should you need further advice on your travels in Germany, do post here and I'll gladly try to help.

Have a great weekend and happy plannings!
hsv

call gemut.com and talk to one of the Bestors they can give yiu some info. and prices. I HAD A OPAL zafari on 2 trips and we were very pleased.
sister

Thanks, I will look into the cars you suggested.

Now can someone give me some advice on drive times? I have checked the miles/times online, but I guess I'm looking for some reassurance that my plan will work.

We are arriving Frankfurt early Sunday morning. Our first desitination is the Mosel/Rhine area. Is it practical (my husband does sleep on the plane even if I can't) to rent a car in Frankfurt and drive directly to say...Cochem on that first arrival day? We will have a few days after that in that area. It shows it to be a 1 hour 45 minute drive. Living in So. Cal, that doesn't seem that unreasonable. I would have no problem arriving in Los Angeles and driving along the coast to San Diego if necessary if thats where my route started. Even if I had a stop or two along the way and arriving in the late afternoon.

Is this a resonable expectation for that area?

The viamichelin.com and mappy.com web sites are very useful for getting estimates of driving time. Keep in mind that your actual time will probably be longer when you're not on a motorway.

Be sure to check out very carefully the legality of your 18 year old driving a rental car. I seem to recall there being additional charges for additional drivers. Can't recall the specifics of teenage drivers.

Don't rent your car from an airport or train station lot or you will pay an extra 19% on the bill.

Call Gemut.com. Bob Bestor can fix you up with the size car you need. I would say, spring for the van and take Grandma. I am guessing the cost of a full size car (5 passanger) and a van will be about the same. Taking Grandma will probably add a lot to everyone's trip.

as you consider driving times, remember that Germany is about the size of Montana and Frankfurt is about in the middle of the coutry (north south). If you are planning to tour the Rhine and then south to the alps to see Ludwig's castles you have cut half of that area out. Nothing is too far. At most you are looking at 3-4 hour drives between places on your longer drives.

You may want to consider renting two vehicles. This will allow everyone to be comfortable and make it easier for you to travel on narrow roads and park in narrow parking spaces (common in Europe).

Also, be sure and check your vehicle(s) out VERY WELL and point out any small dents or scratches prior to leaving the rental place. Some car rental places in Europe are extremely picky.

I rented a van for the first time ever when we took Grandma AND my son's girlfriend on our recent trip to Germany. We got a diesel VW and everyone loved. True, it's no sports car but I got that sucker up to 140 kph (about 85 mph) on the Autobahn. The family loved all the room they had for a change. Buy the kids cheap DVD players and bring them along. They'll keep quiet and be well entertained. Schedule a brewery tour or two and your husband should be satisfied.

Zeus - Could you suggest a good brewery tour or two? I come across all kinds of winery information but have yet to come across any brewery information. We will be in the Mosel/Rhine area, around Rothenburg, the Black Forest, Lindau, Fussen, Berchtesgaden, Hallstadt, and finally Munich.

mkdiebold - We know there are usually charges for the extra driver, my husband and I shared the driving in France/Italy. But I do I appreciate your warning about the 18 year old driver. It is something I have had concerns about myself and have planned on checking into that soon.

Just noticed that Audi plan to launch their huge Q7 SUV next spring/summer. It will seat 7 and is supposed to be a truly sporty SUV with lots of rev.

If the rental agency has one, I would go for it without hesitation. Should be immense fun for your purposes.