Can you help a pair of seniors going to Madrid, Barcelona & Bilbao?
Mar 9th, 2004, 05:06 PM
#1
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Can you help a pair of seniors going to Madrid, Barcelona & Bilbao?
Yes, we are in our 'early' 70' & have traveled on tours & on our own. We do love having our 'own' time & think this is doeable for us.
The first thing is I want to figure is to lay this trip out-in what order. We think we'd go in Oct or Nov as we 'may' use one FF ticket. We could fly out of New York or Phila. using American Air. At this point they tell me that they have no non stop to Barcelona & would have to go through Madrid in both directions.
Does it make sense to go to Barcelona first & have to touch down in Madrid? That would be B,Bilbao & then end in Madrid. Or is it better to land in Madrid & do Mad, Bilbao & then Barcelona? That way we'd have to fly Bar. to Mad on the way back.
Or--just forget the FF ticket & find an airline that goes non stop, get an open end ticket.
Also if we go to Bilbao, do you recomend that we stop somehow in San Sabastian? How could we get there or is this too much trouble & not worth it at this time of year? ( Remember our age ! ) I know it's about 100 miles so a day bus trip may be out of the question.
We haven't even touched on number of days in each place yet or where to stay. I'll get back to you informed people, once I can figure out the logistics of this first.
The first thing is I want to figure is to lay this trip out-in what order. We think we'd go in Oct or Nov as we 'may' use one FF ticket. We could fly out of New York or Phila. using American Air. At this point they tell me that they have no non stop to Barcelona & would have to go through Madrid in both directions.
Does it make sense to go to Barcelona first & have to touch down in Madrid? That would be B,Bilbao & then end in Madrid. Or is it better to land in Madrid & do Mad, Bilbao & then Barcelona? That way we'd have to fly Bar. to Mad on the way back.
Or--just forget the FF ticket & find an airline that goes non stop, get an open end ticket.
Also if we go to Bilbao, do you recomend that we stop somehow in San Sabastian? How could we get there or is this too much trouble & not worth it at this time of year? ( Remember our age ! ) I know it's about 100 miles so a day bus trip may be out of the question.
We haven't even touched on number of days in each place yet or where to stay. I'll get back to you informed people, once I can figure out the logistics of this first.
Mar 9th, 2004, 08:10 PM
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I travelled to Barcelona and Bilbao a few years ago. I believe that I did have to change planes in Madrid, but not recall that it was difficult. I have never spent any time in Madrid. After a few days in Barcelona, I rented a car and drove to Bilbao, stopping at the spectacular Montserrat monestary along the way. There is a good toll road most of the way, but it is very expensive ($40 or more, and the exchange rate was much better then). I stayed with a friend who was living in Bilbao and we toured San Sebastian, as well as the charming town of Vitoria. I was there in March and it could be a bit chilly, particularly by the sea at San Sebastian. I enjoyed San Sebastian, but it really is a beach resort town and it is a bit desolate in the off season. I would go to Vitoria instead for a more authentic taste of Basque culture. Pamplona is also nearby, but I did not visit that favorite town of Hemingway. I drove back to Barcelona through southern France, about an 8 hour trip. I hope this is helpful, have a great trip.
Mar 10th, 2004, 12:34 AM
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travelegs
In order to get some answers, I think you should inform about how much time you have available for the trip.
Then Madrid-Barcelona-Bilbao are well connected by air so any move is easy and possible at almust any time of the day. A natural route could be Madrid, barcelona, Bilbao, Madrid.
Regarding Bilbao and San Sebastian, they are 60 miles away and there is a good bus service taking about 1.5 hours.
So I think is perfectly douable on one day and highly recomended.
In order to get some answers, I think you should inform about how much time you have available for the trip.
Then Madrid-Barcelona-Bilbao are well connected by air so any move is easy and possible at almust any time of the day. A natural route could be Madrid, barcelona, Bilbao, Madrid.
Regarding Bilbao and San Sebastian, they are 60 miles away and there is a good bus service taking about 1.5 hours.
So I think is perfectly douable on one day and highly recomended.
Mar 10th, 2004, 01:22 AM
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Here are my thoughts:
1. I usually always prefer to fly non-stop and will pay a bit more to do so, however my maxim is that "A FREE flight with a connection is always better than a paid flight which is non-stop." Use the money you save for other parts of your trip.
2. I assume you want to see Madrid and not just use it to connect to Barcelona. I also assume that you can't use the FF miles for a round trip from the US that would also let you stop off in Madrid for a few days, go to Barcelona, and then go back to the US from Barcelona connecting through Madrid. If you can do all those flights for free, then I would do that. I am assuming that stopping for a few days in Madrid means that the free part is only US-Madrid-US, and you have to pay your way to Barcelona and back to Madrid.
If that is the case consider this:
Fly US ? Barcelona, connecting in Madrid but not staying there.
See Barcelona for a few days
Fly, train or bus to Bilbao (flgith 1 hour, bus about 6 hours, train 9 hours) for a few days.
Day trip to San Sebastian (see below for bus info from the famous Maribel)
Flight, train or bus from Bilbao to Madrid (flight 1 hour, bus about 4 hours, train 7 hours).
See Madrid for a few days and/or other cities (Seville)
Fly back to the US
Website for Spanish trains is www.renfe.es.
I checked cost of the inter-Spain flights and even on an expensive website like Expedia, the flights are only about $50 one way from Barcelona to Bilbao and from Bilbao to Madrid. This is only a bit more than the train, so your best option may be to fly. Of course you have to add in the cost and time of getting to the airports from the center city, as opposed to a train or bus which usually departs from the center city, but it still probably better to fly unless you have a lot of time and love trains or buses. If you decide to go by land, I would take the longer train over the bus, as you can get up and move around more on the train.
I copied the post below from a recent Maribel post on getting to San Sebastian. I have not done this myself, but everyone here relies pretty heavily on Maribel so I think it is accurate:
" Author: Maribel
Date: 03/09/2004, 08:34 pm
Message: Don't take the train!
The very easiest, best way to travel from Bilbao to San Sebastián is on a Pesa bus. Busses depart from Bilbao's Termibus station, close to the San Mames fútbol stadium. [Football stadium]
Mon-Thurs: busses run every 1/2 hr. from 6:30 a.m. to 10:00 a.m., then 11, noon, then from 1 p.m. to 4 p.m., then 5, 6, then every
1/2 hr. till 10 p.m.
Fridays: every 1/2 hr, starting at 6:30 a.m.
Saturdays: hourly from 7 a.m.-10 p.m.,
Sun. and holidays: hourly from 9 a.m.-10 p.m. (except no departure at 2 p.m.
I'm looking at an old schedule. cova may have a copy of the Pesa '04 schedule handy, but it's probably very similar. "
1. I usually always prefer to fly non-stop and will pay a bit more to do so, however my maxim is that "A FREE flight with a connection is always better than a paid flight which is non-stop." Use the money you save for other parts of your trip.
2. I assume you want to see Madrid and not just use it to connect to Barcelona. I also assume that you can't use the FF miles for a round trip from the US that would also let you stop off in Madrid for a few days, go to Barcelona, and then go back to the US from Barcelona connecting through Madrid. If you can do all those flights for free, then I would do that. I am assuming that stopping for a few days in Madrid means that the free part is only US-Madrid-US, and you have to pay your way to Barcelona and back to Madrid.
If that is the case consider this:
Fly US ? Barcelona, connecting in Madrid but not staying there.
See Barcelona for a few days
Fly, train or bus to Bilbao (flgith 1 hour, bus about 6 hours, train 9 hours) for a few days.
Day trip to San Sebastian (see below for bus info from the famous Maribel)
Flight, train or bus from Bilbao to Madrid (flight 1 hour, bus about 4 hours, train 7 hours).
See Madrid for a few days and/or other cities (Seville)
Fly back to the US
Website for Spanish trains is www.renfe.es.
I checked cost of the inter-Spain flights and even on an expensive website like Expedia, the flights are only about $50 one way from Barcelona to Bilbao and from Bilbao to Madrid. This is only a bit more than the train, so your best option may be to fly. Of course you have to add in the cost and time of getting to the airports from the center city, as opposed to a train or bus which usually departs from the center city, but it still probably better to fly unless you have a lot of time and love trains or buses. If you decide to go by land, I would take the longer train over the bus, as you can get up and move around more on the train.
I copied the post below from a recent Maribel post on getting to San Sebastian. I have not done this myself, but everyone here relies pretty heavily on Maribel so I think it is accurate:
" Author: Maribel
Date: 03/09/2004, 08:34 pm
Message: Don't take the train!
The very easiest, best way to travel from Bilbao to San Sebastián is on a Pesa bus. Busses depart from Bilbao's Termibus station, close to the San Mames fútbol stadium. [Football stadium]
Mon-Thurs: busses run every 1/2 hr. from 6:30 a.m. to 10:00 a.m., then 11, noon, then from 1 p.m. to 4 p.m., then 5, 6, then every
1/2 hr. till 10 p.m.
Fridays: every 1/2 hr, starting at 6:30 a.m.
Saturdays: hourly from 7 a.m.-10 p.m.,
Sun. and holidays: hourly from 9 a.m.-10 p.m. (except no departure at 2 p.m.
I'm looking at an old schedule. cova may have a copy of the Pesa '04 schedule handy, but it's probably very similar. "
Mar 10th, 2004, 02:22 AM
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As far as I know American Airlines has no direct service to Spain from Phila. They would route you thru New York-JFK with a change of plane there. Madrid to Barcelona may be the least of your problems. So, if you plan on using AA frequent flyer miles, it looks like JFK will be your departure point.
At JFK - we had just come thru Customs / Immigration. A man next to me had missed a PHL connection and his next available flight was in 4-hours. We had scheduled a 'Limo' service to pick us up and we were at our doorstep in less than 2-hours. Flying ain't always the fastest way to get there.
You mention an 'open end ticket.' That could be prohibitively expensive.
You might check to see if AA has a code share 'partner' in Spain (SpanAir, for ex.). Or you might look into 'Visit Spain' coupons (from Spanair or Iberia) for MAD-BCN, BCN-BIO, and BIO-MAD.
There is such a thing as Business-class Motorcoaches in Spain. Seats are like First Class Airline seats (3-across) and they provide amenities like snacks and drinks: Some Bus companies call them Supra; others call them Ultra. You can find this service on Bilbao-San Sebastian and/or Bilbao-Santander routes.
At JFK - we had just come thru Customs / Immigration. A man next to me had missed a PHL connection and his next available flight was in 4-hours. We had scheduled a 'Limo' service to pick us up and we were at our doorstep in less than 2-hours. Flying ain't always the fastest way to get there.
You mention an 'open end ticket.' That could be prohibitively expensive.
You might check to see if AA has a code share 'partner' in Spain (SpanAir, for ex.). Or you might look into 'Visit Spain' coupons (from Spanair or Iberia) for MAD-BCN, BCN-BIO, and BIO-MAD.
There is such a thing as Business-class Motorcoaches in Spain. Seats are like First Class Airline seats (3-across) and they provide amenities like snacks and drinks: Some Bus companies call them Supra; others call them Ultra. You can find this service on Bilbao-San Sebastian and/or Bilbao-Santander routes.
Mar 10th, 2004, 03:48 AM
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Hi Travelegs,
Most American airlines stop in Madrid on the way to/from Barcelona, so you may not be able to avoid that.
I started my trip in Madrid and ended it in Barcelona. I preferred this because of the overnight flight - by the time you have been flying all night, do you want to take that extra leg to Barcelona right away? Connecting on the way back isn't so bad because it's during the day and you are not as tired.
From DC, I connected to JFK to Madrid, toured around Spain for 2 weeks, and left from Barcelona. My Barcelona flight stopped in Madrid for about an hour, then onto JFK, where I had to change planes for DC. I thought it would be horrible, but it really wasn't so bad - just bring a lot to read!
Have a great trip (I posted a pretty detailed trip report if you are interested, you can click on my name to find it).
Karen
Most American airlines stop in Madrid on the way to/from Barcelona, so you may not be able to avoid that.
I started my trip in Madrid and ended it in Barcelona. I preferred this because of the overnight flight - by the time you have been flying all night, do you want to take that extra leg to Barcelona right away? Connecting on the way back isn't so bad because it's during the day and you are not as tired.
From DC, I connected to JFK to Madrid, toured around Spain for 2 weeks, and left from Barcelona. My Barcelona flight stopped in Madrid for about an hour, then onto JFK, where I had to change planes for DC. I thought it would be horrible, but it really wasn't so bad - just bring a lot to read!
Have a great trip (I posted a pretty detailed trip report if you are interested, you can click on my name to find it).
Karen
Mar 10th, 2004, 05:18 AM
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On the ff topic------ we're flying out of Boston using American ff miles. We'll go American to London, then Iberia to Madrid (where we want to start.) On return we fly out of Barcelona on BA to London, then American London to Boston. When we use ff miles we frequently end up changing planes at Heathrow (which seems to have planes going just about anywhere!!) My calls to American frequently start with them telling me we will have to fly Boston to Chicago and then Chicago to our European destination. I tell them geography may not be my strongest point, but I'm not flying hundreds of miles in the wrong direction at the start of my trip!!
My point is that you sometimes have to push them and know what is really possible. We have even stayed in London for a few days on some of our returns--- a great city and a nice stop off point.
But if all they're saying is that at some point you have to fly from Barcelona to Madrid (or vice versa) and its all included in the ff miles it doesn't sound like such a bad deal.
However it works out, have a wonderful time.
My point is that you sometimes have to push them and know what is really possible. We have even stayed in London for a few days on some of our returns--- a great city and a nice stop off point.
But if all they're saying is that at some point you have to fly from Barcelona to Madrid (or vice versa) and its all included in the ff miles it doesn't sound like such a bad deal.
However it works out, have a wonderful time.
Mar 10th, 2004, 10:30 AM
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While I have no advice about ff tickets, or San Sebastian, I thought I'd share my May itinerary since it is similar. We fly into Madrid (US Airways from DEN to PHL, PHL to MAD). We spend a few nights there, then rent a car to drive up to Bilbao, stopping at a few small towns (over nights) along the way). After a couple days in Bilbao we will fly to BCN for 4 days, then fly from BCN to MAD in the AM for our afternoon flight, MAD back to PHL . . . Hope this helps!
Mar 10th, 2004, 11:33 AM
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Travelegs,
I would do exactly as kaudrey did, as I feel the same way. After a long transatlantic flight, I really don't relish landing then having to worry about making my connecting flight and spending yet 1 more hr. in the air.
Here's a possible scenario that may work, although it involves 3 intra Spain flights, but the most relaxing part is at the end. And look into those coupons that NED mentions.
I suggest flying to Madrid (from JFK to MAD on AA using the ff miles) and start your tour there. I would allow from 12-14 days for your total trip, allowing for some rest and down time. And I would choose Oct. rather than Nov. for warmer weather in the Basque Country. Spend 4 days at the beginning in Madrid. Your first day will be a blur, then sightsee on days 2-3, use the final day for a day trip to either Toledo or Segovia. Or if you want to do both, add an extra day, and do Toledo first (the most strenuous), then rest a day before the day trip to Segovia. From Madrid take a mid-morning shuttle flight to Barcelona. Even with part of the AVE tracks finished to Lleida, the Altaria train to BCN still takes around 5 hrs. Compare the air fares of Iberia, Spanair and AirEuropa. Spend 4 days in Barcelona, using the Bus Turistic to take you around for your sightseeing, and include a day trip by Julia tours to Montserrat. You may want to add a train trip to Girona or even an easy train excursion to the cava (Spain's bubbly) cellars of Sant Sadurni d'Anoia, depending on your interests.
Then FLY to Bilbao. As Cicerone says, train trip is tedious (but there is an overnight train), and the bus takes 6 hrs. Again compare air fares. Stay for 3-4 days.
Using Bilbao as your home base, take the very easy Pesa bus to San Sebastian for a full day (you can also take an Alsa bus, www.alsa.es, with "supra" service, but Pesa is just fine.
The walk from the S.S. bus station to downtown and La Concha beach is a pleasant one. In S.S. there are the many absolute "must see" museums/monuments as there are in Bcn, just stroll, take in the elegant atmosphere, enjoy the wonderful food at the pintxos (tapas) bars of the Old Quarter, try the tart, slightly fizzy Basque white wine, "txakoli", make sure to visit the great Mercado de la Brecha in the Old Quarter (in the basement of the shopping mall), window shop, sit at a cafe.
Return to Madrid for your transatlantic flight from Bilbao(Iberia or Spanair-compare prices; Spanair has a cheap early morning flight that arrives in time to connect), then fly home from Barajas to JFK using your ff AA miles.
I would do exactly as kaudrey did, as I feel the same way. After a long transatlantic flight, I really don't relish landing then having to worry about making my connecting flight and spending yet 1 more hr. in the air.
Here's a possible scenario that may work, although it involves 3 intra Spain flights, but the most relaxing part is at the end. And look into those coupons that NED mentions.
I suggest flying to Madrid (from JFK to MAD on AA using the ff miles) and start your tour there. I would allow from 12-14 days for your total trip, allowing for some rest and down time. And I would choose Oct. rather than Nov. for warmer weather in the Basque Country. Spend 4 days at the beginning in Madrid. Your first day will be a blur, then sightsee on days 2-3, use the final day for a day trip to either Toledo or Segovia. Or if you want to do both, add an extra day, and do Toledo first (the most strenuous), then rest a day before the day trip to Segovia. From Madrid take a mid-morning shuttle flight to Barcelona. Even with part of the AVE tracks finished to Lleida, the Altaria train to BCN still takes around 5 hrs. Compare the air fares of Iberia, Spanair and AirEuropa. Spend 4 days in Barcelona, using the Bus Turistic to take you around for your sightseeing, and include a day trip by Julia tours to Montserrat. You may want to add a train trip to Girona or even an easy train excursion to the cava (Spain's bubbly) cellars of Sant Sadurni d'Anoia, depending on your interests.
Then FLY to Bilbao. As Cicerone says, train trip is tedious (but there is an overnight train), and the bus takes 6 hrs. Again compare air fares. Stay for 3-4 days.
Using Bilbao as your home base, take the very easy Pesa bus to San Sebastian for a full day (you can also take an Alsa bus, www.alsa.es, with "supra" service, but Pesa is just fine.
The walk from the S.S. bus station to downtown and La Concha beach is a pleasant one. In S.S. there are the many absolute "must see" museums/monuments as there are in Bcn, just stroll, take in the elegant atmosphere, enjoy the wonderful food at the pintxos (tapas) bars of the Old Quarter, try the tart, slightly fizzy Basque white wine, "txakoli", make sure to visit the great Mercado de la Brecha in the Old Quarter (in the basement of the shopping mall), window shop, sit at a cafe.
Return to Madrid for your transatlantic flight from Bilbao(Iberia or Spanair-compare prices; Spanair has a cheap early morning flight that arrives in time to connect), then fly home from Barajas to JFK using your ff AA miles.
Mar 14th, 2004, 05:40 PM
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To all of you who ansered my question:
first of all, my sincere apologies for not getting back to you sooner with my thanks. This is the first time I've been able to get back onto the board since last week. In fact I've only been able to get on a very few times since December. Yes, I know there is an AOL problem & I don't mean to get into that here. I'm not computer savy & am afraid to download to Internet Express etc. so I just keep trying this old way.
Now, back to Spain:
ANIKA--your itenery looks wonderful for May. Looking forward to reading about your trip. We are not planning to do any driving & want to get to our places via plane.
MAGGIO--about your trips going through London. Did you ever feel that this was 'too much' to do, such as after 14 or so days in Spain?
Karen--I'm loving reading your trip report. Thanks for being so generous. I agree that if we have to stop in Madrid first, then that should be our first place to viist. I can't see going on after a night of flying.
NED & Maribel---re. coupons, I did talk to Iberia. They told me that to get those coupons, I'd have to pay a higher price on the initial flight to SP to qualify for the coupons. It seems cheaper to fly from city to city using one of the smaller airlines once we get to SP.
Is there any advantage doing--MAD-BCN, BCN-BIO, BIO-MAD or better to do--MAD-BIO, BIO-BNC, BNC-MAD?
Once again, many thanks to all of you who helped. There are many more questions that I have, such as I think I may have to use a travel agent to help me book all of this--AFTER I GIVE HER all my info. gathered by airline web sites, as I don't think I can do all these multiple flights on my own. But that & specific questions about hotels etc. are for another day!( when I can get on)
What we do know is that the events in SP of last week in no way will deter us & if anything, we will try to add an extra few days to this trip.
first of all, my sincere apologies for not getting back to you sooner with my thanks. This is the first time I've been able to get back onto the board since last week. In fact I've only been able to get on a very few times since December. Yes, I know there is an AOL problem & I don't mean to get into that here. I'm not computer savy & am afraid to download to Internet Express etc. so I just keep trying this old way.
Now, back to Spain:
ANIKA--your itenery looks wonderful for May. Looking forward to reading about your trip. We are not planning to do any driving & want to get to our places via plane.
MAGGIO--about your trips going through London. Did you ever feel that this was 'too much' to do, such as after 14 or so days in Spain?
Karen--I'm loving reading your trip report. Thanks for being so generous. I agree that if we have to stop in Madrid first, then that should be our first place to viist. I can't see going on after a night of flying.
NED & Maribel---re. coupons, I did talk to Iberia. They told me that to get those coupons, I'd have to pay a higher price on the initial flight to SP to qualify for the coupons. It seems cheaper to fly from city to city using one of the smaller airlines once we get to SP.
Is there any advantage doing--MAD-BCN, BCN-BIO, BIO-MAD or better to do--MAD-BIO, BIO-BNC, BNC-MAD?
Once again, many thanks to all of you who helped. There are many more questions that I have, such as I think I may have to use a travel agent to help me book all of this--AFTER I GIVE HER all my info. gathered by airline web sites, as I don't think I can do all these multiple flights on my own. But that & specific questions about hotels etc. are for another day!( when I can get on)
What we do know is that the events in SP of last week in no way will deter us & if anything, we will try to add an extra few days to this trip.
