michelleloi

hiii everyone! me and two of my girlfriends in our mid-twenties bought a round trip flight from LAX (los angeles) to London because one of our friends live in london and will be staying with her there. Our dates are March28-May9! we have a rough draft itinerary and would love to receive feedback on it! i think we have a total days of 42 days! We will be backpacking the rest but we may have friends to stay with in venice and barcelona. we might get a hotel in rome or paris just to treat ourselves too!

Here's what we have so far:

London, UK (5 days)

APPROX 405MILES FROM LONDON TO EDINBURGH
FLY FROM LONDON TO EDINBURGH

Edinburgh, Scotland (3 days)

APPOX 600MILES FROM EDINBURGH TO AMSTERDAM
TRAIN/FERRY/FLY FROM SCOTLAND TO AMSTERDAM

Amsterdam, Netherlands (3days)

APPROX 410 MILES FROM AMSTERDAM TO BERLIN
TRAIN/FLY FROM AMSTERDAM TO BERLIN

Berlin, Germany (3 days)
APPROX 310MILES FROM BERLIN TO MUNICH
TRAIN (6.5HOURS) OR FLY FROM BERLIN TO MUNICH
Munich, Germany (3 days)

APPROX 190MILES FROM MUNICH TO VENICE
FLY/TRAIN FROM MUNICH TO VENICE

Venice, Italy (3 days)
APPROX 125MILES FROM VENICE TO FLORENCE
Florence,Italy (3-4 days)
-Cinque Terre (DAY TRIP) APPROX 3HOURS BY TRAIN FROM FLORENCE
- Pisa (DAY TRIP) APPROX LESS THAN ONE HOUR BY TRAIN FROM FLORENCE
-Visit other cities in tuscany??? which ones?
APPROX 145MILES FROM FLORENCE TO ROME
TRAIN TO ROME?
Rome, Italy (5 days)
* Napoli, Italy APPROX 118 MILES FROM ROME
*Pompeii APPROX 15 MILES FROM NAPLES
*Sorrento, Amalfi Coast ?
Isle of Capri, Italy (DAY TRIP)-MUST TAKE FERRY THERE

FLY FROM ITALY TO SEVILLE, SPAIN

Seville, Spain (2-3 days)
APPROX 2.5HOURS BY TRAIN TO MADRID
Madrid, Spain (2-3 days)
APPROX 2h45m BY TRAIN TO BARCELONA
Barcelona, Spain (2-3 days)
*FERRY/FLY TO IBIZA?

FLY FROM BARCELONA TO PARIS

Paris, France (5 days)

FLY/TRAIN FROM PARIS BACK TO LONDON

the one's in * are maybe destinations if we have time. also, would you guys recommend amsterdam? my friends are kind of worried because of all the bad things they've heard. but i have heard from others that people love this place!

i'm not sure if i gave enough days in some places or too many days to some?
and im not sure if the itinerary we have is the most time-efficient.. i kinda briefly looked at a map on google.

we plan on take trains throughout the same country and then flying from country to country to save time!

would love to hear any feedback! thanks for your time!

annhig

oooh - i think that you may need to slow down a bit, and factor in some down time, else you'll end up not knowing if Rome is in italy or Spain!

what do you like doing? are you interested in Art? Sport? [doing or watching?] shopping? [silly question!] beach?

at the moment you have picked a fairly random selection of capital/famous cities and planned to spend 3 nights in most of them, with little thought for what you might do there.

let us know what you like to do, and then we can help you plan a little better.

PS - apart from the rather seedy red light district which takes up very little of the centre of the city, and is easily avoided, there is nothing wrong with Amsterdam except that you might find it rather boring!

michelleloi

we narrowed down a lot and chose several countries. the main ones are london, germany, italy, spain, and france.. and tried to chose the more popular cities in each area but i'm not sure if we chose the best ones. we might still need to narrow down some more.

we're interested in art, sightseeing, playing tourist but also see how the locals do it. we LOVE the beach, outdoor stuff (hiking and nature) and of course, shopping! but i don't think we wanna spend too many days shopping..

so, you wouldn't recommend amsterdam?

MFNYC

Barcelona deserves more time. It's a great city.

qwovadis

eurocheapo.com

ricksteves.com

2 good newbie sites...

Have done this from LON in early spring

still cold and rainy in the north weather2travel.com

Fly LON ROM first skyscanner.net then hop trains like a

local back up italy sunfrance.com spain paris amsterdam LON

as weather warms... insuremytrip.com wise

Congrats!

jent103

You love the beach and hiking, but aside from Capri and <i>possible</i> stops in the Cinque Terre, Sorrento and Ibiza, you don't really seem to prioritize those in your itinerary. That doesn't mean your itinerary is wrong, but if those are among your priorities for this trip, you might want to rethink some things - replace some time in Germany with some time in the Scottish Highlands or the English Lake District or something else, for example. (plenty of other options, just my first thought - actually April might be quite chilly in the Highlands, now that I think about it) It probably won't be "beach" weather many places that early in the year, but there are lots of ideas here for scenery and hiking.

Other than that, I actually think your itinerary would be pretty good if you chopped it up into a few two-week trips. For such an extended vacation, though, you might find yourself wanting a few "down" days for things like laundry and just general relaxation. Finding your way around a new city every few days can be really tiring, especially over a month and a half. If you cut out a destination or two, you can chill out a bit and I think you'll enjoy yourselves more.

BigRuss

I'd take the train to Edinburgh from London - it's < 4 hours and you won't have to deal with trekking out to one of the airports, getting scanned, and sitting on your hind end waiting for the plane. I'd also spend more time in Scotland but that's my own preference.

I'd also skip Amsterdam - you'll see more rain there in four days than you will in a year in So Cal. You need to decide what you really want to see in Munich - it's more of a gateway to a region than a destination in itself. Perhaps more time in Berlin and skip Munich if you're just throwing darts at a map right now.

I would NOT train from Italy to Spain or from Italy to Paris - there are plenty of cheapo airlines in Europe (Ryanair, Vueling, etc.).

Other things:

(1) There isn't an "outdoors" destination in your list, it's all cities.

(2) Do NOT underestimate the size of Spain or France - some of the other countries are tiny (Netherlands, Scotland) but those two are each larger than California.

(3) Beaches really cannot be a priority for your trip because you'll be going primarily in April, not June or July. For comparison, nearly every place on your itinerary has a higher latitude than New York City (Rome is equivalent)- in other words, they're all north of NYC so you're not going to hit beach weather. To you, it will be cold very often. Besides, you live in California, you have far better beaches where you are.

(4) Ditch both Madrid and Seville and give more time to Barcelona and that region. Both of the others are nice, but you're really wandering all over the bloody place. You're all young, you'll be back.

(5) You don't want to go to Napoli (there's a LOT of dump factor there), you just want to go to Pompeii and/or Capri. That's understandable, but you'll be able to come back and both Pompeii and Capri will be there (whether the Euro will exist is another question). Capri especially will be better a month after your visit is scheduled.

nytraveler

You do not have too much time anywhere. You dont have enough time in a lot of places. It doesn;t appear that you have allowed day for travel from one place to another. You can't count one day as leaving Edinbirgh, traveling and spending it in Amsterdam. that is 3 days - not one.

for realistic travel times mileage does no good at all. You really need train schedules and info on budget air lines For train go to bahn.de (this is the German rail site and can give prices only for trains starting in Germany - but it has the best info on trains and schedules for all of europe.

Also - if you are planning on staying in hostels be aware that there are some that are excellend and some that are awful (dirty, full of drugs and unsafe). The good ones book out early - so you need to do a lot more planning here.

Frankly I think you are going way too many places to really learn much about any of them.

As for Amsterdam - have no idea what you have heard - but it is a fascinating city with a tone of things to see/do- and esp for young people, IMHO is a must see.

GauchoGirl2010

Thanks for the tips. Some of your comments were very helpful!!! FYI Im one of the 3 going on this trip.

As for our dates, we chose April because we didnt want to travel during the summer with loads of tourists and higher flight prices.

As for the weather, we are not too worried about the cold since we come from cold cities. Yes we are from california but we are from cold, wet and windy coastal cities. 80 degree weather kills me come summer where I live. So we might fit rght in with the european weather

We will definitly take up your tips on cutting some cities out But definitly not cutting out Madrid and Sevilla BigRuss. Im a flamenco dancer/teacher and for me Sevilla is a big deal!!!! I must dance in spain and relish in the culture I been dreaming of going for years and my girlfriends totally understand my need to get there;-)

Keep the tips coming. We appreciate the useful tips!!

mamcalice

I would do a lot more research and cut two or three destinations out. Some say skip Seville and add time to Barcelona but you have given us an excellent explanation of why Seville is a must. I love Seville and you will, too.

I would consider dropping Edinburgh, Amsterdam and Germany but that is my preference after visiting all of the destinations on your itinerary. You (and others on the board) will have vastly different preferences.

Don't visit Cinque Terre as a day trip from Florence. It is simply too far from Florence and will not allow you the time to do what is best in CT - hike between the 5 towns.

Your trip will be very expensive because of all the travel involved. Cut down on your destinations to allow more time in your stops and less cost in moving around so much.

ChallengerGrey

Something to be aware of is that most hotels in Europe charge per person and not per room. That increases your costs.
Munich is a nice city and as mentioned, a central stopping point for cities like Salzburg or the Neuschwanstein castle or Oberammergau. You ladies might like Munich, maybe even more than Berlin.
You're not giving enough time to Venice. You'll probably stay on the island of Lido, which has the beaches (but it may be too cool that time of year) but adds to the travel time between the Grand Canal and Lido. You would also enjoy the islands of Burano and Murano. That adds an extra day to Venice as well.
Half the fun of the travel is the research. Enjoy.

annhig

Ok- Michelle - IMHO something's got to give if you're to have an adventure to remember, not a slog from one capital city to another, and much as I love it, I would jettison Germany as well as amsterdam.

that will give you this: [counted in nights, not days. 5 nights = 4 clear days]


London, UK (5 nights)


Train from LONDON TO EDINBURGH

Edinburgh, Scotland (4 nights - my DD, who is about the same age as you loved Edinburgh!)

now go straight to Italy:


fly to Venice, spend 4 nights [NOT the Lido, please! if you are there for 4 nights, you might think about an apartment]

Train to
Florence, (5 nights - gives you 2 clear days in florence and two for potential day trips to ?Pisa, Siena, Lucca)
[if you want to see the CT, you need more than a day trip; with the damage done by the recent floods, you might want to give it a miss]

Train to Sorrento - 4 nights - for Pompeii, Vesuvius, Capri

TRAIN TO ROME
Rome, Italy (5 nights)

[i've put them this way round as it'll be easier to fly to Spain from Rome than from Naples I think and this puts you in Rome before you fly out]


FLY FROM ITALY TO SEVILLE, SPAIN

Seville, (5 nights)

TRAIN TO MADRID
Madrid 3 nights)

TRAIN TO BARCELONA
Barcelona, Spain (5 nights)


FLY FROM BARCELONA TO PARIS

Paris (5 nights)

TRAIN FROM PARIS BACK TO LONDON

that's 45 nights, so you will have to trim here and there. but it gives you nice long periods in some places, interspersed with shorter ones.

you are young, so Germany can wait!

nytraveler

You have 16 days in 6 weeks. IMHO you should drop half of them. (My first trip to europe (4 weeks with my BF when I was 19) we went 7 places (as in 7 hotels) and found that we were leaving most places still wanting to see more. If we had done 10 or 11 it would all have been a blur.

Aramis

First, ignore anyone who tells you you are trying to see too much and you won't enjoy yourselves. Seriously. They want you to take their vacation, convinced that you will be better off and that they will have validated themselves. For some reason there is a subset of contributors who choose to dismiss that other travelers have personal reasons for wanting to visit a place and travel at a certain place.

I know, I know, you're all just trying to help and if the OP wants to ruin her vacation, so be it.

It is your vacation, see as many places as you want and stay as long as you like in each.

Taking a first cut at this, I would also recommend that you look into taking the train to Edinburgh and then flying from there to Amsterdam. There aren't enough "gains" in flying to Edinburgh to make it preferable over taking the train, but I think that there could be in flying - right now I can see one way fares for about $150 US (one stop in London) and about 4 hours flight time. You can get there for only $114 if you are willing to have a longer layover in London ( 7 hours total flight time).

The Rome - Barcelona route usually has some very cheap airfares, while Seville can be a very expensive airport to get to, generally, from most places in Europe. I would, therefore, also suggest that you consider flying into BCN from Rome and making your way from there to Seville, and then Madrid FCO - BCN flights for April are currently about $70 cheaper than FCO - SVQ ($178 vs $117). BCN - SVQ flights are also generally cheap if booked early enough - right now they are about $48. From Seville to Madrid, take the AVE train - booked early. Right now MAD - Paris flights are cheapper than BCN - Paris so a Rome - BCN - SVQ - train - MAD - Paris routing looks like it could be the cheapest. I think Ibiza can be most easily reached from BCN.

Of course, if you decide to get rail passes, this all changes.

For the rest of your travels, the train is probably the best (except Ibiza, of course). Where you indicate either flying or taking the train. there are good overnight train options; Berlin - Munich and Munich - Venice. It's pretty cool to arrive early in Venice and step out from Santa Lucia train station to get your first look at the Grand Canal.

If you want more specific advice, on making changes, just ask.

GauchoGirl2010

I think we are going to pursue the Rail pass. Its $388 and is valid for 2 months If i remember correctly.

bilboburgler

Wow, well I'd add Siena. I'd drop Amsterdam unless you fancy the two main art galleries. Then you need to plan more cities around 4 days not 3 which will force out a couple more cities which you might do say by choice of language or night life or warmth (you may be used to the cold/wet but after 8 hours city watching you may beg for a little warm).

Have a read of Rough Guide Europe it might kick start a few more drop outs

anothertravelinsong

I agree with the person who suggests dropping Cinque Terre as a day trip - it deserves 3 nights. If you are looking for a day trip from Florence, Siena will do the trick (90 minute bus ride).

anothertravelinsong

And I think you only need 2-3 days in Florence itself.

CaptainChas

If you do decide to go to Edinburgh and then on from there, look at easyjet.com for Amsterdam or Jet2.com for Venice

CathyM

I'll speak specifically to the Spain portion of your trip in which you've alloted 6-9 days for Madrid, Sevilla AND Barcelona. You are not giving yourself much time to "relish in the culture". If Madrid and Sevilla are key for you 6-9 days will be enough just for these 2 unless you want to be very rushed. Sevilla really deserves a good 4 nights and you could easily spend another 4 in Madrid (w/a daytrip to Toledo or Segovia). This time would give you just enough to potentially get a feel for the culture. If you tried to squeeze in Barcelona it would be a Spanish blur - especially as part of a larger trip. I'd cut out some places (and chunks of geography) that aren't as critical and add time to the places that are of interest. For example, add some time into your visit to Spain and spend a couple of nights in Granada. Another thought - time your trip to Sevilla around the Feria where you're apt to see alot of impromptu flamenco and the dressses are breathtaking.