Kathie

All of the Scandinavian cities are very expensive.

marvelousmouse

I assumed it doesn’t involve airfare, hmm, good question.

Have you asked your son? I’m not sure if Vienna would be that interesting to a 14 year old, at least in comparison to Rome or Paris or Amsterdam.

But if it would give you more spending money, I’d pick based on airfare and direct flights.

Gretchen

Glad someone FINALLY addressed the budget of $3000.
Paris. I still say it has the most bang for the buck IF they look for budget accomodations (Ibis hotels triple room for example).

kja

With that list, I'd also recommend Rome -- lots of stuff for people of all ages, better weather than most places you would go, can be seen a bit more affordably than anywhere in Scandinavia or Switzerland, holds more than enough to keep you all busy for the time you have, with room for a day trip or two.... if you can extend just a bit, you could add a few days in Venice.

John117

The $3000 does include airfare, leaving about $1500 for the actual trip, or $100/day + hotels. We'd like to stay affordable, but I'd assume we'd certainly end up spending around $150-$200/day -- perhaps a bit more.

The "budget" is more of a target price than everything. Though I'd prefer not to spend too much more since it's only a week and just a taste of Europe.

Anyway, I've narrowed it down to:

Paris
Amsterdam
Berlin
Turin
Madrid

I'm leaning towards Amsterdam or Paris, but the food of Turin, history of Berlin, and the fact that my son can practice Spanish in Madrid interest me quite a bit.

Vienna looks really beautiful, not sure what's actually there though. Anyone else want to chime in? As for my son, he picked some of the cities I had on the original list.

We'd love to do Switzerland, but not enough time to make the money worth our while. For future planning, how much would Switzerland/Scandinavia cost per day minus hotels?

Finally, I'd assume these cities are all safe enough for my son to walk around in/go to a coffee shop a block or two away alone? My wife wants to make sure someone won't steal him

John117

Venice doesn't really interest my son or me, especially if it's the only destination. Rome could be interesting. How does that compare to Turin?

marvelousmouse

I think you may need a few guidebooks...why is Vienna on the list if you don’t know what’s there? Or the difference between Turin and Rome?

John117

Marvelousmouse, good point. I kind of got carried away with this trip... in all the wrong ways.

I've read a bit more about Vienna and will scrap it until/unless we do a longer trip in a few years, and pick up an Italy guidebook.

SO, revised list:

Amsterdam
Berlin
Paris
Italy (Rome/Turin)
Madrid

Still leaning towards Amsterdam or Paris, but the food/climate/culture of Italy, history of Berlin, and the fact that my son can practice Spanish in Madrid interest me quite a bit.

janisj

I'm sorry -- but I honestly don't think you can do anywhere near what you want on $3000. Even IF you can get RT airfares for $500 or $600 pp (sort of doubtful -- the very budget carriers charge extra for everything so that $550 fare may end you $700 or more). But for argument sake -- let's go w/ $500 fares.

That leaves $1500 for three people for 5 nights. Then you say $100 per night for hotel or you can go up to $150 or $200 (that is a pretty big difference) But go w/ your $100 per day -- ain't gonna happen for a triple room in city centers except in hostels and very basic hotels. But it sounds like you are only considering airfare and hotels . . . accommodation is not the most expensive part of your ground expenses. You need money to cover meals, beverages, transport, entrance fees, etc. Does you son drink soft drinks? If so you are in for a shock -- they are small, there are NO free refills, don't come w/ ice, and . . . are <u>expensive</u>.

So even if you limit yourselves to mostly picnics and street food plus a few restaurant meals, you need to budget nearly $100 a day for food. If you don't want to eat every meal 'on the hoof' and actually want to sit down in restaurants it will be closer to $200/day. And no splurges allowed.

Admission charges -- The Louvre for example -- will cost you $35 (your son is free)

John117

Luckily no soft drinks, and for once I'm glad nobody in our family really eats breakfast beyond a bit of bread/cereal.

Again, the $3000 is quite a rough guideline, and we could easily stretch to $3500 or a bit over $4000-ish if need be.

Amsterdam:

The $1500 is on Virgin Atlantic and British Airways, hotel $1000 (triple room at Golden Tulip/XO West Amsterdam). So that leaves ideal 150-200, max $300 or so.

Paris is roughly the same using WOW air. We'd bring around 2-3 bags, and we can handle the extra 200-300 total.

jacooper

Madrid would be good for your son to practise Spanish, and you could do day trips by train to nice smaller places like Segovia (Roman aqueduct and castle) and Toledo (cathedral and war museum).

kja

With your revised list, Rome / Turin (or Rome only) would be my choice – but I, too, am not sure your budget is sufficient – you really need to do some research. The "little" things can really add up, IME, tickets for public transportation, admissions to museums, a bit of gelato, a few postcards....

And I strongly agree that you would benefit greatly from consulting some good guidebooks, perhaps at your local library or bookstore. There really is no substitute, as you can only search on-line for things you know to ask, while a good guidebook has everything you need in one place.

janisj

Hard to help w/ such a moving target. First >>we have a budget of $3000<<, then $3500, and now $4000+

$4000 will be doable. Not extravagant but definitely doable.

(The XO isn't in central Amsterdam - so you will spend a lot of time on the trams)

Leely2

I don't know, they all sound good to me, including the places I've not yet been. so I understand your open-mindedness. Maybe not Zurich, but for some reason Switzerland has never called to me (my loss, I am sure, but I hope I will get there someday).

Curious, though, why Torino? Nothing against it--I've not been there, though I'd like to go and I've visited Italy a lot. I've never found a good connection to Torino.

Rome and Paris are always great, IMO. And unlike many here, I really enjoy Amsterdam. Does Madrid work, $-wise? If so, I would put that in the top-contenders pile.

Have fun!

Lexma90

In addition to the guidebooks (your local library is an excellent source), have the three of you sit in front of the tv or computer and watch some Rick Steves or similar videos of your potential destinations.

John117

Yeah, I definitely asked a bit early in the planning stages. I just had so many potential cities that it was a bit overwhelming, and only a basic understanding of the budget. Now that I know how much is needed for a good trip ($4k), I'll certainly pay it if needed. Now that I've narrowed things down, I'll check guidebooks for all the cities tomorrow and watch some videos.

So, back to opinions now that I have a clearer understanding of my trip:

If, on $4000 or (ideally) less, you could only go to Amsterdam, Berlin, Madrid, Paris, or Turin/Paris, with a 14 year old son, which one would be the most enjoyable and offer the best first look of Europe?

Kathie

I think you need to figure out what cities "call to you." The idea of watching some videos is a good one. I would start with what calls to you, and from there, research whether it is possible on your budget (or what modifications you'd need to make for it to be possible). Go from videos to guidebooks, you really will need some time with guidebooks, as kja says, guidebooks will offer you info you don't yet know to ask about.

kja

From that list, I would opt for Paris.
- I love Amsterdam, but wouldn't go at that time of year and would want to wait until I could affordably include another city.
- Berlin is fascinating, but little survives from before WWII.
- Madrid has much to offer, but it isn't really all that old in comparison to much of Europe.
- Paris is glorious for any and all, any time.
- I would not try to include Turin with Paris -- it will be costly in time and money to travel there and would potentially "shortchange" your time in Paris if you try to include more than a day trip in your plans for the time you have. You have TONS of options for day trips from Paris; consider them instead if you must.

Please don't think you are getting a look at Europe -- each nook and cranny of that continent is unique. But IMO, you will get some of the BEST of Europe in Paris and it will include exposure to "old world charm."

JMO.

Good luck!

Sassafrass

Limited time, use it for sight seeing not moving about. See one place with perhaps a day trip. A train can be fun, but moving uses up time and travel become a blur.

Don't worry about using a language. You won't be there long enough or have enough opportunity to make that the priority.

Unless you are keen to hike or ski or see mountains (expensive in Europe), you can get super cheap SW flights to lots of places for a quick weekend of snow, sledding, etc. in the US.

Snow is wonderful if a winter holiday is the focus of the trip, and you are prepared for it, but cold and damp is not much fun when walking around a city sightseeing. People coming to Florida from a cold climate want to be warm, but not so hot they can't stand to be outside. Same for cold.

Which city? Is there one significant thing you or your wife or son have dreamed of seeing in a particular city?

If not, IMHO, Rome. That is it. The range of sights, architecture, history, churches, archeological sites, culture and food will engage one for a life time. There is enough variety to keep your son interested. The weather will probably be rainy, but that is likely everywhere. Five or six days will give you time to feel you have actually been there. It is very walkable. You might be able to rent an apartment, be more comfortable and save money. You could plan a day trip to Ostia Antica or Florence and then decide when you are there if you want to do it or not.

Second choice, perhaps a toss up, would be London, for many of the same reasons, but mostly because there is so much to see and do in one city, and your son would probably enjoy it. Rainy and cool, but lots to do inside.

marvelousmouse

Berlin or Madrid. Well, I know I could pull Germany off on your budget, happily. Germany is really easy to get around and has some stunning sites. Food is cheap and hearty, beer is good, people are friendly and English is widely spoken. The backpackers I’ve talked to have raved about Madrid and the costs of Spain in general. And I think it would be cool, and very educational, for your son to practice his Spanish in Spain!

I wouldn’t do Paris. I love Paris but the little things really DO add up fast there. I stayed in a hostel and was still surprised about how much it cost me. I think you’d have to compromise on hotel location for one thing. Save Paris for either when you have more time or more money.

I still think you should do Rome, especially since you mentioned the food. But Rome might be pretty overwhelming in 5 days, especially jetlagged. I would save that for a separate Italy trip as I think you need a bit more time there, if you truly only have 5-6 days.