Kyra

Yup - you're completely out of luck in France...

tobaccokills

To Cheryl Z: Just because you have not had the same experiences as someone else does not mean they are waaayyy off base, (and you are what, presumably ON base?) nor does the original poster state that she has asthma. She is concerned that the so-called "non-smoking" hotel rooms in France will be full of smoke, and if she's making reservations ahead of time, and wants to ENSURE that her room is truly nonsmoking, she had better claim health problems. "Non-smoking" in Europe often means "no one is smoking in there right now" or "you're in there, and you're not smoking, so the room is non-smoking." Same goes for the restaurants. <BR> <BR>And is the measure of "guts" nowadays the willingness to receive spam in your e-mail, especially about hot button issues like smoking? Exactly who appointed this Cheryl Z person the arbiter of all experiences anyway? <BR> <BR>Diane, glean whatever advice you can from this fray -- smoking is ALWAYS a hot topic on this forum.

Just trying to provide the

My initial posting to Diane was directed more at semantics, though it does have very real medical implications. The increased sensitivity to cigarette smoke experienced by a number of asthmatics is not allergic in nature, and anti-allergy medications will not help acutely nor in a preventative mode. But she can and should take measures to protect herself from smoke exposrure and the effects that smoke has on her. <BR> <BR>It was not intended to imply that her sensitivity to smoke is not real, and I apologize if it seemed that I was not empathetic in some way. I know asthma very well and food allergies too, as a parent. Believe me, these things get your attention really fast when visits to the emergency department become necessary. Just because I do not take care of asthmatic patients, please don't think that I don't understand asthma, the predictable and unpredictable nature of asthma triggers, and the problem of air and what man and nature put into it. <BR> <BR>In my original posting, I offered ideas about best using medical advice so that Diane can experience and enjoy France. There are a number of medical issues that affect a broad cross-section of travelers. Travelers who cannot walk accept some limitations, and yet they ask for and receive consideration on some other kinds of accommodations. Abstinent alcoholics can and should enjoy travel to France. They will have a different kind of experience than you or me, but should we really jump to recommend that they stay home? <BR> <BR>I have plenty of courage, by the way, but I have personal reasons for using the name and e-mail address fields in the way that I do. If providing a real e-mail address is a measure of courage, I could do that, but let me assure you I exhibit much more courage than posting messages on a message board all the time. I work in an intensive care unit. Talking to a family about imminent death takes courage. This message board is a trivial hobby, by comparison. <BR> <BR>It wouldn't be hard for me to set up a new e-mail account on hotmail or Yahoo, if Cheryl Z. or anyone else really wants the opportunity to write to me. But rest assured that anything you want to say to me publicly, you can put here. I will check in often enough to read it.

frank

In the UK the word "Virginia" means "tobacco". <BR>American tobacco companies are pushing their crud all over the world, their big target market is now 3rd world children. <BR>We don't grow the drug, either do the French. <BR>Our cigarette factories are mostly American owned. <BR>America is the biggest pusher, stop moaning about the Europeans, write to your congressman. <BR>Perhaps we should send our airforce to bomb your drug plantations, as you do in South America. <BR>Is that fair?

Falcon

Forget the tourist guides. France, and especially Paris for me has four great irritations, all of which create near physical reactions in my system of varying degrees <BR>1. Everyone smokes like there's no tomorrow, and look at you in condescension when you ask them to refrain. <BR>2. Everywhere you walk there seems to be a "doggie deposit" and you will step on one every day...its just a matter of time. <BR>3. The French are the lowest users of soap in Europe. They try to make up for this by being great consumers of fragrance and after shave lotion. <BR>4. Meat is served raw or near-raw. In one restaurant an insert in the menu (in English) said "please do not offend the chef by asking for 'well done' <BR> <BR> <BR>

elvira

Well, well, well, now I'm arrogant because I follow the French rules in France? Now who is arrogant - the Americans who try to shove their laws and culture down the throats of their hosts? Why is it our right (or duty, as we see it) to "fix" everyone else? If the French or Italians or whomever choose to live their lives a certain way, who made Americans the overseers? What's next - demanding that Europeans follow our car emission rules? food labeling? Who died and made us king of the pound? <BR>Maybe, instead of destroying the tobacco fields, why can't the Europeans just bomb our gun factories? Or demand that we get rid of our guns? That'd go over real big... <BR>Diane's original concern was for her well-being. Everyone answered her concerns, offering help. If she had asked about hayfever, we would have told her to avoid the Chelsea Flower Show - or should we demand it be shut down because the exhibits cause allergic reactions? Or that all the heather in the moors be eliminated for the same reason? Or that anyone who goes to the Chelsea Flower Show is just encouraging them to continue this unhealthy affair? If she had asked about a milk allergy, we would have given her ideas for vegetarian restaurants, the French words for milk products - or should we demand the French change their cooking style to better their health (and ours)? <BR>I am so tired of self-righteous pompous twits... <BR>Oh and yoo-hoo mr/ms tobaccokills: I ride a bicycle to work (I don't own a car at all), but I bet I'm forced to breathe in your car's carbon monoxide, etc. every day. By the way, that's pretty arrogant, forcing me to inhale your toxins just for your convenience. <BR>And if second hand smoke kills, what about bullets? Or drinking and driving? Americans get all riled up over smoking, verbally assaulting smokers with impunity, yet are not nearly as aggressive toward gun owners and drinkers. The leading cause of death among African-American men under the age of 25 is gunshot - not lung disease. Stick that in your pipe and smoke it.

judy

The way you are ranting...it would make us wonder what is in your pipe? Everyone was trying to help......Not only is smoking a problem.....you are one, too.

kriedel

Elvira, I agree with you on one point, and one point only. Americans should not try to shove their culture down another's throats. Having said that, I also don't think Americans should "go native," just because it is so French to do so, nor do I think it's cute to sit in a nonsmoking area and smoke if it will spoil someone else's meal. You don't understand how obnoxious and stomach-turning smoke it can be around food (or in a bathroom for that matter). It is beyond my comprehension why most people, I am sure, would never spray some obnoxious odor all over a stranger, but have no qualms about ruining someone else's meal, clothes or clean hair. <BR> <BR>I live in Italy, and I have taken many of the strategies that others have recommended to avoid smoke. It's a nuisance, but I did choose to live here. My only rule or active defense is to request no smoking in my apartment. Otherwise, I am the one who adjusts by moving my table, slowing or hastening my pace, not going to bars or nightclubs. I only wish smokers--Americans, Europeans or Martians--would have the same consideration and confine their smoking to either designated areas or the privacy of their own homes, which many Italians in higher educational and social levels do anyway. <BR> <BR>Also, comparing smoking to transportation is apples to oranges. Most people have to have some sort of transportation (I walk to work, thank you very much). No one has to smoke. I won't even answer the gun issue, which is, ahem, just a smokescreen. <BR> <BR>You have given such wonderful, cogent advice on this forum. Please be consistent and have some consideration for nonsmokers.

Erika

Diane... In case you're still interested, I have asthma and was able to adjust my meds right before going to Florence and Paris and I had little problems. We went to a lot of outtdoor cafes and bought "Cheap Eats in Paris," which breaks down the restaurants into many categories, including those that are non-smoking. Each one that was marked as non-smoking really was, I had no problems.

tobaccokills

Good points made here. Smoking is, in fact, a good indicator of one's socioeconomic status in the U.S. -- smokers tend to have lower incomes and less education than nonsmokers. <BR> <BR>If the founders of this country had raised coca plants instead of tobacco, we'd have a nation of legal coke and crackheads, and we'd be jailing the tobacco "pushers" instead for foisting that drug off on our children. How sad that people allow themselves to be controlled and harmed by "legal" drug pushers -- the tobacco industry. <BR> <BR>I stand by my original comments about Ugly American smokers in Europe. Their defiant and arrogant attitudes made them worse than the European smokers, especially because they know better. <BR> <BR>Diane, I don't know if you've considered visiting the UK, but in my experience they are ahead of the rest of Europe in terms of attitudes about smoking. It was no problem at all to find smoke-free hotels and restaurants, although the pubs were another matter. <BR> <BR>Have fun wherever you go.

gutterboy

I wanna drop this conversation down to my level. Flatulance. If you wouldn't fart there, you shouldn't smoke there. <BR>elevators <BR>cars <BR>dinner table <BR>airplane <BR>on the coach with your honey <BR>movie theater <BR>bus <BR>If there's a breeze, smoke, fart, belch, spit into the wind, I don't care. <BR>Elvira, you're a peach, don't ever change.

Kathy

I really believe that most people (at least in the U.S.) who smoke want to quit because smoking makes you feel bad, look bad and smell bad. Other people don't want to be around you if you smoke. I have quit twice and just last October had REAL good experience going to the Mad Russian in Brookline, MA (Boston). Billy Joel has gone there although I don't know what his smoking status might be at present. I know this is off the subject and forgive me, but if it helps one person to stop smoking it is worth it. Call Yefim Shubenstov (Mad Russian) at 617/232-3930. It only costs $65 BTW. <BR> <BR>Kathy

Dawn

We stayed at the Hotel Balcons in Paris and didn't smell smoke in our rooms, but people did smoke in the breakfast room. I don't think it's funny to smoke in a nonsmoking area either. It's selfish and rude.

Beth Y.

Well, I just had to weigh in on this one. I am a avid non-smoker who has traveled successfully through Europe and dealt with the smoking issue. Y'll have given Diane lots of great advice, which I can't add to. When last in Paris, I certainly remember dealing with smokers, but no more than in the US. I recall Spain being the worst. <BR> <BR>I do however, have to make one point. I grew up in Virginia and live now in North Carolina. I know a tabacco barn and tabacco plants when I see them. I traveled to the Dordogne region of France in September. To respond to Frank's post, the French grow tabacco and lots of it.

lola

The smoking problem isn't only across the pond. There was an article in today's New York Times about the many restaurants who don't comply with the city's no-smoking policy, and it is getting worse. The list included favorites such as The Union Square Cafe. Seems the profit motive trumps health and law.

Fred

Try sitting outside the cafes, it may help a little. Pick up some items at the little grocery stores or markets and have picnics, or just buy lunch at the crepe and sandwich stands they have all over. It's cheap and fun, and the food is fresh. <BR> <BR>By the way, I hope Elvira hasn't been shamed off the board by this. We all have our little foibles. Sometimes it takes other perspectives to help you see them yourself. Considerate smokers confine their smoking to their own personal environments. <BR> <BR>

Ralph

You people are SO interesting! Please tell me, all of you who are SO concerned with cigarette smoke, particularly second-hand, why you don't think automobiles should be made illegal? I'll bet everyone who's responded here gets into a car each and every day and spews carbon monoxide into the air. Anyone who "enjoys a meal at an outdoor table" in Paris to avoid cigarette smoke inside had better bring along a gas mask.

merriem

Ralph, you comments are respected, but what you and many others do not understand, is: Smoking makes me, and many other SICK. We have asthma...we don't want a handicapped sticker on our car.....but would really appreciate a place to eat our dinner SMOKE FREE! Maybe it does not bother you and many others, but for the rest of us, it is a serious, life threating health hazard. Do you understand what I am trying to say?

Maureen

Well, I have a serious reaction to perfume. First, my ears ring, then I get dizzy, and if I don't get away from it soon enough, I experience an intense case of vertigo. It's no fun, believe me. Anyone who's never experienced vertigo cannot imagine how scary this is - when the world spins, or you pass out on a metro car (with not only yourself exposed, but all your valuables, to who knows what). Lest you think it's "in my head", the reason I don't get away from it soon enough is because the onset of symptoms comes long before I notice the "aroma". This would not be nearly so serious a problem if people did not wear lots more fragrance than necessary. Anyone with a condition of this sort has no choice but to learn to manage. Either you stay home or acquire "coping skills" when out and about and "exposure" is beyond your control. When visiting a foreign country, you are just that - a visitor. You can choose to go or not. Once there, no point in complaining about the natives or their habits. Better to select a destination with native whose habits you can tolerate. Let me know if you discover such a place!

merriem

Leaving for Budapest next week, and just checked with the hotel, and was pleased to find that the city has a new law....just started January 1, that all restaurants are required to have non-smoking sections. At least that is a start. Know it doesn't help in Paris, but maybe the message is getting out.